Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Sorry for going off on a tangent there. I just don't feel like it's as simple as saying that Lucia recruited poorly. Like I said, in some cases maybe he did but in other cases he was going after guys who were highly sought after. They just didn't work/aren't working at Minnesota for whatever the reason.

I think your point is very relevant Wes. My concern right now is not talent, it's morale and effort. When expectations are not met and a season starts to unravel, there's disappointment and the potential for a lot of fracturing within a team. Coaches need to have their finger on the pulse of the temperament of players and the team, and keep things positive.

Sparty comes into Mariucci this weekend on a 5 game skid. Historically, MSU has always found a way to play tough against us and clog up the neutral zone. Gophers will need to shutdown Khodorenko, Hirose and Lewandowski, the top scoring line for MSU. If we can put a couple Ws together that will build confidence going into the series with the Buckeyes the following weekend.

EDIT:

Go Gophers!

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

In some cases I agree. In other cases I think that when recruiting players as young as they do now, some of these kids may just plateau in development. Now, is some of that on the coaching/recruitment? Sure. But at the same time if they don't recruit that early and they miss out on some young kid who goes off to another school and blows up, they're going to get crucified.

Seems like kind of a lose lose, darned if you do and darned if you don't kind of deal to me when it comes to recruiting. Especially at a place like Minnesota where you should theoretically have the pick of the high school litter.

I know the narrative right now is a lot of fans think the Gophers need some older, grinder type of players with some grit and toughness. Not unlike some of the recruits I'm guessing Motzko had to go after in his years at SCSU because he wasn't getting the blue chippers that, say, a Minnesota or a UND were getting. It kind of sounds like that's the kind of recruits Hastings is getting down in Mankato. Yeah, he gets a lot of good Minnesota recruits but he's got a few foreign players mixed in too. They probably weren't highly recruited, but ended up being a good fit for that program.

Sorry for going off on a tangent there. I just don't feel like it's as simple as saying that Lucia recruited poorly. Like I said, in some cases maybe he did but in other cases he was going after guys who were highly sought after. They just didn't work/aren't working at Minnesota for whatever the reason.

You are wrong. Don't you know? Lucia only liked to drive as far as Edina for recruiting and he looked for guys who stood around or just skated around avoiding contact.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

You are wrong. Don't you know? Lucia only liked to drive as far as Edina for recruiting and he looked for guys who stood around or just skated around avoiding contact.

True that. Need more 218 kids instead of those cake eaters.

 

[purpleinnebraska]

In some cases I agree. In other cases I think that when recruiting players as young as they do now, some of these kids may just plateau in development. Now, is some of that on the coaching/recruitment? Sure. But at the same time if they don't recruit that early and they miss out on some young kid who goes off to another school and blows up, they're going to get crucified.

Seems like kind of a lose lose, darned if you do and darned if you don't kind of deal to me when it comes to recruiting. Especially at a place like Minnesota where you should theoretically have the pick of the high school litter.

I know the narrative right now is a lot of fans think the Gophers need some older, grinder type of players with some grit and toughness. Not unlike some of the recruits I'm guessing Motzko had to go after in his years at SCSU because he wasn't getting the blue chippers that, say, a Minnesota or a UND were getting. It kind of sounds like that's the kind of recruits Hastings is getting down in Mankato. Yeah, he gets a lot of good Minnesota recruits but he's got a few foreign players mixed in too. They probably weren't highly recruited, but ended up being a good fit for that program.

Sorry for going off on a tangent there. I just don't feel like it's as simple as saying that Lucia recruited poorly. Like I said, in some cases maybe he did but in other cases he was going after guys who were highly sought after. They just didn't work/aren't working at Minnesota for whatever the reason.

I think an underrated part of recruiting the older kids has been the opportunity to see how they’re developing emotionally as young men, as opposed to just the physical development. Hastings’ recruits have a couple things in common - They’re leaders, almost all wearing a C or an A on their junior teams; and they’ve shown some snarl. Although I’ve never heard him say it, I think Hastings follows the old adage that you’re better off trying to tame a tiger than you are painting stripes on a pu*** cat. It’s harder to know who will be a leader and who will play with an edge when you’re evaluating a 15 or 16 year old.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

In some cases I agree. In other cases I think that when recruiting players as young as they do now, some of these kids may just plateau in development. Now, is some of that on the coaching/recruitment? Sure. But at the same time if they don't recruit that early and they miss out on some young kid who goes off to another school and blows up, they're going to get crucified.

This year's class of senior forwards are operating at -16 plus/minus while the rest of the team is at +7. The group was not just recruited by Lucia and company, they were developed physically and psychologically by that staff for 3 years. And the team's performance this fall is in all respects a carry over from its collapse in the spring. The team is at fault and Lucia is its architect.

They just didn't work/aren't working at Minnesota for whatever the reason.

Other programs don't seem to have the problem of players 'just not working out' (see our senior class vs. Boeser of the same year) or the best players leaving asap (Mittelstadt). Our recruiting/development peer set is not Michigan State but UMD, SCSU, Mankato, UND and they have done just fine. What's our record against this group? And what about their tournament success?

The above attitude of 'its OK and just happens' is no way to improve a program. At some point, mistakes have been made, need to be acknowledged and learned from.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

This year's class of senior forwards are operating at -16 plus/minus while the rest of the team is at +7. The group was not just recruited by Lucia and company, they were developed physically and psychologically by that staff for 3 years. And the team's performance this fall is in all respects a carry over from its collapse in the spring. The team is at fault and Lucia is its architect.



Other programs don't seem to have the problem of players 'just not working out' (see our senior class vs. Boeser of the same year) or the best players leaving asap (Mittelstadt). Our recruiting/development peer set is not Michigan State but UMD, SCSU, Mankato, UND and they have done just fine. What's our record against this group? And what about their tournament success?

The above attitude of 'its OK and just happens' is no way to improve a program. At some point, mistakes have been made, need to be acknowledged and learned from.

I don't disagree with you about these seniors current production. I don't disagree with you that they were put into Lucia's system and mindset, there is certainly blame to be laid there. I still think there is more to it than that.

People always bring up Boeser. I don't follow recruiting all that closely so what's the story? Was he not recruited by Lucia? Did he turn Minnesota down? What's the deal?

As I've stated in previous posts. Teams like Mankato and SCSU seem to have gone about recruiting a little differently. Older, foreign, not highly recruited, etc.

UMD and UND are different. UMD gets a lot of kids from the range, a fair amount of kids from the metro, and a few Canadians. To their credit it's working. UND gets high end kids from everywhere. They are in a very similar recruiting position as Minnesota. With that you'd think they win a national championship every year. No? Well then, Frozen Four year in and year out at least right? Oh, they missed the tournament last year too? Interesting.

If tournament success is your barometer for the quality of program and their recruiting, I guess I'm not sure what to tell you. The NCAA men's ice hockey tournament is a crapshoot, plain and simple. Heck, if tournament success was the only trait taken into account for a coach then I bet Motzko would not have gotten the Minnesota job.



EDIT: p.s. I feel like you cherry picked the last comment of mine that you quoted without taking into account some of the other points I made in response to St Clown.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Look, I'm not saying Lucia is blameless in what is going on with this program. Clearly he isn't. No one hits on EVERY recruit and Minnesota is not the only team that has high enders leaving early.

All I'm saying is fans seem to have all the answers when it comes to recruiting. "We need older, grinder type players", "we need more players from the iron range", or "we need to look outside of Edina in the recruiting process". Well guess what, the first time some Edina kid goes up to Grand Forks and blows up for UND, you're going to crucify the coach for not getting that kid to Minnesota.

It's a lose lose IMO. YMMV.

 

[Bonin21]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

People always bring up Boeser. Did he turn Minnesota down?

Yes

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Yes

You've really painted a picture here.

Why did he turn Minnesota down? People make it out like Lucia just ignored him or something.

 

[Bonin21]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

You've really painted a picture here.

Why did he turn Minnesota down? People make it out like Lucia just ignored him or something.

Lucia didn't ignore him. He decided to go to UND and won a title and set himself up for a career making probably hundreds of millions.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Lucia didn't ignore him. He decided to go to UND and won a title and set himself up for a career making probably hundreds of millions.

And everyone knows no one from UM is having any kind of success in the NHL.

 

[Happy]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

This year's class of senior forwards are operating at -16 plus/minus while the rest of the team is at +7. The group was not just recruited by Lucia and company, they were developed physically and psychologically by that staff for 3 years. And the team's performance this fall is in all respects a carry over from its collapse in the spring. The team is at fault and Lucia is its architect.



Other programs don't seem to have the problem of players 'just not working out' (see our senior class vs. Boeser of the same year) or the best players leaving asap (Mittelstadt). Our recruiting/development peer set is not Michigan State but UMD, SCSU, Mankato, UND and they have done just fine. What's our record against this group? And what about their tournament success?

The above attitude of 'its OK and just happens' is no way to improve a program. At some point, mistakes have been made, need to be acknowledged and learned from.

a ton of teams have their best players leave early, and many even have the problem of the recruits saying they are going to college, and then jumping ship to major Juniors, and never playing at all. I think you will find a first round draft pick never stays more than a year or two, unless injured, or doesn't pan out. Is Wheeler the last first rounder to stay anywhere 3 years?

 

[Bonin21]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Well technically he has the highest point per game in the NHL of any Minnesotan since at least 1990. I think he knew he may only play one season (ended up playing two), and knew UND gave him a better shot at a title that year. For him it was the right decision but still stings as a Gopher fan.

 

[Bonin21]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

a ton of teams have their best players leave early, and many even have the problem of the recruits saying they are going to college, and then jumping ship to major Juniors, and never playing at all. I think you will find a first round draft pick never stays more than a year or two, unless injured, or doesn't pan out. Is Wheeler the last first rounder to stay anywhere 3 years?

No. Tufte and Poehling both looking for titles in their junior years.

Fabbro and Oettinger at BU.

 

[purpleinnebraska]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

a ton of teams have their best players leave early, and many even have the problem of the recruits saying they are going to college, and then jumping ship to major Juniors, and never playing at all. I think you will find a first round draft pick never stays more than a year or two, unless injured, or doesn't pan out. Is Wheeler the last first rounder to stay anywhere 3 years?

J. Schmaltz stayed 3 years at NoDak. I'm sure there are a few others also, but with the "opt out" provision after 4 years, NHL teams make a real strong push to sign someone after 3 years, if not before.

 

[Happy]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

No. Tufte and Poehling both looking for titles in their junior years.

Fabbro and Oettinger at BU.

so, maybe 1 out of 10?

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

This year's class of senior forwards are operating at -16 plus/minus while the rest of the team is at +7. The group was not just recruited by Lucia and company, they were developed physically and psychologically by that staff for 3 years. And the team's performance this fall is in all respects a carry over from its collapse in the spring. The team is at fault and Lucia is its architect.



Other programs don't seem to have the problem of players 'just not working out' (see our senior class vs. Boeser of the same year) or the best players leaving asap (Mittelstadt). Our recruiting/development peer set is not Michigan State but UMD, SCSU, Mankato, UND and they have done just fine. What's our record against this group? And what about their tournament success?

The above attitude of 'its OK and just happens' is no way to improve a program. At some point, mistakes have been made, need to be acknowledged and learned from.

MN is somewhat competing against the BC, BU, UND, Michigan group as peers as well. There isn't a great deal of overlap with regional players for average players, but once you start talking top round NHL picks and NDPT players, the recruiting is more of a national competition. All these schools are competing for young kids who far exceed their peers, and betting on them to stay at that level. As Wes mentions, this can be a lose lose position to be in. Part of the reason the Mankato's and St. Cloud's are getting the older guys is because they just aren't as competitive for getting those young stars, not purely because they choose to only get older kids. And there are plenty of programs that operate in a similar way and have had success (Yale, Quinnipiac, etc.) that are still up and down, even taking older players. And I agree with Wes that part of the issue with MN not being as consistently a top five program was the crapshoot of selecting young guys. There may have also been some factor of Lucia losing some drive and being less effective, we don't really know. But the current recruiting scene makes it more difficult for team like MN to consistently have the best team, when you are no longer selecting guys at age 18. There are going to be off years when too many guys plateau. I think it is unrealistic to not acknowledge this and expect the same success as the 80's, 90's and early 2000's.

And taking one example of one player as proof of a point (especially when it was one who was recruited by MN) can be done to make any point. You can easily find players both ways. For example, many thought Tufte would be a dominant player once he adjusted to the NCAA and was seen as a huge loss. He is a good player, but not the level many expected for such a highly touted player. So choosing one guy as an example to make a point about recruiting success isn't valid.

I don't normally like to predict things, but I expect that if the new age limit goes through for recruiting, we will see a resurgence of programs like BC, BU and MN being more consistent competitors, as they have more time to look at players and select the best at a later age. And on boards like this, people will be boasting about how right they were that Lucia was a bad recruiter and that Motzko is way better. When the reality would be, recruiting at MN would have become easier for Motzko.

 

[trixR4kids]

You've really painted a picture here.

Why did he turn Minnesota down? People make it out like Lucia just ignored him or something.

I forgot if it was him or Jake Guentzel but I think part of why they didn’t come here was not liking a certain player that Lucia overrode Guentzel on and took onto the team.

Obviously recruiting is somewhat of a crap shoot, like drafting in the pro leagues. I think with some of these guys it’s obvious that they benefited from either playing on a super team or against weak competition (or both) and might have been overly reliant on one part of their game to dominate. It becomes all the more important with guys on a super team to figure out who’s actually driving the success rather than just being a passenger.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

GAME DAY!

Sparty has dropped their last five following a pair at Munn Arena last weekend to Notre Dame and two more at surprising Arizona State the week before — a dismal stretch that was unexpected, given that the green-and-white won four of its first five games.

However, Sparty does have some fire power. MSU’s Olympics-sounding KHL Line of Patrick Khodorenko, Tiro Hirose and Mitchell Lewandowski (who are actually from California, Alberta and Michigan respectively) has accounted for 34 points (15g, 19a) – 46 percent of the team’s total.

Motzko said recently:

Offense is a key hurdle for the Golden Gophers. “Our soft spot right now is our offense,” head coach Bob Motzko said. “There’s more offense in that room to give. We’ve got to keep pushing. We’ve been riding a yo-yo so far. Several of our young guys have the track record as scorers.”

Sounds like Bob doesn't read this thread. He actually thinks Lucia's recruits are not inherently duds at all.

KEYS FOR THE GOPHERS

— Keep testing lines and let the younger players get comfortable. The all-freshman line is a good example;

— Find the firepower — as Motzko says, there’s a lot of offense in that locker room and much of it is about ready to burst out;

— Whatever you’re feeding the goalies, keep it up — Schierhorn and Matt Robson continue to sparkle in a two-man rotation that provides depth every night.

-Courtesy of Doug McLeod Blog

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Hey, I saw some chemistry tonight! Nice offensive surge in a 7-2 win for the Gophers over Sparty with contributions from all classes.

Points

Freshman: 10
Sophomores: 3
Juniors: 2
Seniors: 6

The freshman line McManus/Walker/McLaughlin were impressive with speed, playmaking and scoring. Gopher D looked much more poised. I blame tDon.