Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Junior Gates nailed it: "We need more blue collar attitude to be successful". Sounds a lot like "Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard". His GWG was huge for this team going into the break.

I'm seeing a lot of posts over on GPL questioning this Gopher team's effort, care, and compete level. You can question talent all you want with this team, but the celebration on the bench after Jr Gates scored sure looked like a team that cares and wants to win, to me anyway.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I don't think it's absurd. You have to game plan for your team's strengths or, in the Gophers' case, weaknesses.

I truly believe that is what Lucia did last year and was getting ripped for it. I think he realized the didn't have much for D that could transition the puck well and they were going to be offensively challenged. So they took chances when they were there and relied heavily on Robson. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

I guess IDK how either version of the team is "taking chances", they don't typically have a hard forecheck or pinch a lot. Lucia's team dumped the puck more often as well if I had to guess.

I get that they want to rely on Robson but that's not gonna work forever as we saw after the first Duluth series.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I guess IDK how either version of the team is "taking chances", they don't typically have a hard forecheck or pinch a lot. Lucia's team dumped the puck more often as well if I had to guess.

I get that they want to rely on Robson but that's not gonna work forever as we saw after the first Duluth series.

I agree that it's not a recipe for success, like you said in your previous post. I just think with the current state of the program and these recruits, it is what it is. It's not gonna be pretty most of the time.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I agree that it's not a recipe for success, like you said in your previous post. I just think with the current state of the program and these recruits, it is what it is. It's not gonna be pretty most of the time.

No argument there. I guess for me I'm just failing to see the part where they're "taking chances" because right now it looks like a team that still plays very cautiously. Nobody on this team really forechecks hard outside of Walker, the D still stand around at the blue line in the O zone and panic when they get the puck, they also seemingly never pinch or do anything to keep the play alive offensively. Maybe Motzko is doing this out of necessity and Lucia did the same but it just doesn't seem like much changed since last year.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I'm seeing a lot of posts over on GPL questioning this Gopher team's effort, care, and compete level. You can question talent all you want with this team, but the celebration on the bench after Jr Gates scored sure looked like a team that cares and wants to win, to me anyway.

IMO there are some issues that arise when they are ahead, and when they are behind by 2+ goals. They either think they have the game won already, or they think they have lost the game. When winning, they just coast, thinking "we've got this." When down, it's like quicksand and they kind of give up and go through the motions.

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I'm seeing a lot of posts over on GPL questioning this Gopher team's effort, care, and compete level. You can question talent all you want with this team, but the celebration on the bench after Jr Gates scored sure looked like a team that cares and wants to win, to me anyway.

From my experience, when you see a celebration on the bench like that it's coming directly from a passion to win. Believe Motzko not the fans...the players care and they want to improve.

For example, they blocked 24 shots on Sat., way above their average. I've taken lots of stingers, including one in the forehead that knocked me out cold. I never heard a fan question my effort or commitment.

“The guys have been outstanding. They want to get better and everyone's on the same page. We're struggling with the consistency right now of how we want to approach things... We have to stay with the positives and why we can do that and keep identifying and supporting our players on those nights when we're doing the right thing” Motzko said. “Hopefully those things, those habits and that frame of mind can get more consistent.”

Like any team with an entirely new staff and new recruits it takes time to find the right team attitude and mix on the ice. The Gophers appear to be a team that seems to be turning the corner and beginning to discover who they are and what they're capable of.

The Gophers improved to 4-3-3 since the MSUM series. Now they're 5-6-4. When Lucia took over Gophers in 1999-2000 they went 5-9-1 after 15 games. Second half they went 15-10-1. I think we'll see somewhat of the same pattern this season...only better.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

No argument there. I guess for me I'm just failing to see the part where they're "taking chances" because right now it looks like a team that still plays very cautiously. Nobody on this team really forechecks hard outside of Walker, the D still stand around at the blue line in the O zone and panic when they get the puck, they also seemingly never pinch or do anything to keep the play alive offensively. Maybe Motzko is doing this out of necessity and Lucia did the same but it just doesn't seem like much changed since last year.

Maybe taking chances isn't the right terminology. I'm not sure what is and you usually question or disagree with everything I say anyway so it is what it is lol. Maybe your wording of "cautious" is the best way to describe them.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

From my experience, when you see a celebration on the bench like that it's coming directly from a passion to win. Believe Motzko not the fans...the players care and they want to improve.

I've taken lots of stingers, including one in the forehead that knocked me out cold. I never heard a fan question my effort or commitment.

It was fun to see. Hopefully they can build some momentum from a roller coaster game that ended up back in their favor.

Some might question your sanity, but that's a different discussion.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Maybe taking chances isn't the right terminology. I'm not sure what is and you usually question or disagree with everything I say anyway so it is what it is lol. Maybe your wording of "cautious" is the best way to describe them.

Haha! I just wasn't sure what you're getting at. What I will say though is that when you have a blue line that clearly doesn't have a single above average defensive presence, it doesn't make a ton of sense to try and sit back and defend for long periods of time. We don't have Dmen who are above average in front of their own net at clearing people out, stopping rebound chances, getting to loose pucks, tying up people on the boards, or really anything you need to try and play that kind of game. It just seems like a group that was expected to contribute offensively and yet they're lacking in that area as well.

Last year I thought that maybe they could just try and pinch more and take more risks in the offensive zone, sort of a "offense is the best defense" strategy but after seeing Nanne whiff on as many shots as he has and Phillips shoot as many pucks as he has into defenders' legs I can see why neither coaching staff has a ton of faith in trying that strategy either. So in that sense I think I see what you're getting at. I don't envy the position Motzko is in but my hope was that he'd at least try and go more towards the latter strategy. Even if it didn't pay off a ton this year hopefully you'd have guys like Phillips and Brinkman executing it well next year.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

Haha! I just wasn't sure what you're getting at. What I will say though is that when you have a blue line that clearly doesn't have a single above average defensive presence, it doesn't make a ton of sense to try and sit back and defend for long periods of time. We don't have Dmen who are above average in front of their own net at clearing people out, stopping rebound chances, getting to loose pucks, tying up people on the boards, or really anything you need to try and play that kind of game. It just seems like a group that was expected to contribute offensively and yet they're lacking in that area as well.

Last year I thought that maybe they could just try and pinch more and take more risks in the offensive zone, sort of a "offense is the best defense" strategy but after seeing Nanne whiff on as many shots as he has and Phillips shoot as many pucks as he has into defenders' legs I can see why neither coaching staff has a ton of faith in trying that strategy either. So in that sense I think I see what you're getting at. I don't envy the position Motzko is in but my hope was that he'd at least try and go more towards the latter strategy. Even if it didn't pay off a ton this year hopefully you'd have guys like Phillips and Brinkman executing it well next year.

They don't appear to be very offensively gifted either(even though I agree that some of them were expected to be) so I don't know what the right thing is to do lol.

Agreed on Phillips and Brinkman, hopefully this is part of a maturing process for them that will bring better production in years to come. Not overly impressed with either of those two at this point. Was expecting more offensively from Phillips based on the hype and Brinkman is just young. Don't blame Motzko for giving them lots of ice time at this point though, they are the foreseeable future on the blue line for this team.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

They don't appear to be very offensively gifted either(even though I agree that some of them were expected to be) so I don't know what the right thing is to do lol.

Agreed on Phillips and Brinkman, hopefully this is part of a maturing process for them that will bring better production in years to come. Not overly impressed with either of those two at this point. Was expecting more offensively from Phillips based on the hype and Brinkman is just young. Don't blame Motzko for giving them lots of ice time at this point though, they are the foreseeable future on the blue line for this team.

Agreed, like I said I don't envy the position the current coaches are in or Lucia last year for that matter (especially since he recruited these guys).

Watching Phillips try and maintain gap control when a skater comes toward him looking to enter the zone is like watching a fish out of water or something.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I'm seeing a lot of posts over on GPL questioning this Gopher team's effort, care, and compete level. You can question talent all you want with this team, but the celebration on the bench after Jr Gates scored sure looked like a team that cares and wants to win, to me anyway.

I don't think those two are necessarily completely correlated. Of course athletes at this level want to win, and will celebrate a victory after so many close losses (essentially). That doesn't mean that they gave 100% effort. I used to coach girls soccer and had one team with a few very talented players who carried the play when they were on the field. There were a number of other girls who were very tentative and afraid to get into the fray for the ball. But they all celebrated close victories like champions, even though the victory was due to a few players playing hard.

I still think there are a lot of times in every game where Gopher players are losing races or battles for the puck because of hesitation or lack of effort. SteveO cites the number of blocked shots as evidence of effort, but that is in a game where they give up nearly 100 attempts. You are going to block a lot of shots just from MI shooting into players when there are that many shots. If you are winning races and battles on the forecheck and backchecking, you don't give up that many chances or take as many penalties as they did. It is hard to know how much of this is just the psyche of the make up of all the personalities on the team, and how much is uncertainty. But I remember Hammy mentioning last year the frustration level of the coaches with not being able to get that team to consistently give a solid effort. With most of those same players, we are seeing the same thing this year, IMO. I don't think the talent level is that much lower than these other teams.

And people like to blame the recruiting, but if it is true that the leadership doesn't listen to the coaches, that is a pretty tough thing to perceive in 15-16 year old kids being recruited. Not to mention, it is how all the personalities work together that determines that psyche, which is impossible to predict. (Every year there are professional teams that perform way better than projected (ie Bears) and others that way underperform (ie Vikings) and these are in leagues with less roster turnover than college sports.

And I do hope that a new voice will get this team playing with a more consistent effort in the second half. I do believe that the talent is there to compete with any team in the country if every player on the team can learn to give it all on every shift.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I think this is a team that is still trying to find its identity and getting itself fully immersed with the culture of the new coaching staff. While these guys have been playing hockey their entire lives they're still human and if not kids very young men. The UMD series shouldn't have been a benchmark because it was just too early. Reality then set in and it's taken time to adjust to what they really have. I am still not convinced this team lacks as much talent as some assert, but I also haven't been able to watch as many minutes as of most of you. This isn't a Frozen Four team mind you but I also can't write them off finding their way into the NCAAs.

I think that relying on Robson isn't sustainable for an entire season as previously noted, but by keeping them in games and going 1-0-1 on the road against a decent UMi team could be a spark. Knowing they have a guy in net that can save them might help their confidence level and allow them to take more low risk chances rather than playing as conservatively as they have. While I prefer seeing them win 5-3 if it takes 3-2 every night just get it done.

I have a feeling Bob is going to have some hard conversations with several players during the break. There's also talk of experimenting with Novak on D which if it works would help their transition game coming out of their own zone. Perhaps my eternal optimism is unwarranted but dammit I know no other way.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I still think there are a lot of times in every game where Gopher players are losing races or battles for the puck because of hesitation or lack of effort. SteveO cites the number of blocked shots as evidence of effort, but that is in a game where they give up nearly 100 attempts. You are going to block a lot of shots just from MI shooting into players when there are that many shots. If you are winning races and battles on the forecheck and backchecking, you don't give up that many chances or take as many penalties as they did. It is hard to know how much of this is just the psyche of the make up of all the personalities on the team, and how much is uncertainty. But I remember Hammy mentioning last year the frustration level of the coaches with not being able to get that team to consistently give a solid effort. With most of those same players, we are seeing the same thing this year, IMO. I don't think the talent level is that much lower than these other teams.

Honestly I think they take penalties because the D literally can't keep up. Some of these guys like Philips have the worst gap control I've ever see and basically just back all the way into the top of their circles while waving their stick never coming close to making contact with the puck. To me that isn't an effort or lack of backchecking, they just aren't good or don't have the confidence that they can maintain their gaps. And so they end up taking stick infractions to avoid being beat because they just can't stay with the guy they're defending. They also take some really dumb penalties but a lot of them are due to simply getting beat by better players.

As for the forecheck there aren't many players on the team with above average speed to go in and effectively forecheck, Walker is the only one I've seen that is fast enough to win puck races or get on the D right away before they touch the puck and make an exit pass. I'd like to see a harder forecheck but I can't tell if Motzko is actually trying to do that (i.e. sending multiple guys in hard) or just doing something more passive because he doesn't think he has the speed to play the other way. This could be an effort problem and maybe there are some guys who are faster than they appear but at this point I have my doubts.

I know the coaches are on these guys for giving a consistent effort but that could mean any number of things due to it being a vague statement and perhaps not wanting to say, "these guys ****ing suck!". I don't doubt that effort is part of the problem or they wouldn't be mentioning it but I also am willing to be realistic about the talent level of this team.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I do believe that the talent is there to compete with any team in the country if every player on the team can learn to give it all on every shift.

I agree with everything you said in your post above, until this. Quite frankly this team is not going to blow out any decent team based on superior talent; it's just not there - especially on defense. This team will need to rely on superior effort and continued excellent goaltending, game in and game out, if they are to mount a climb up the PairWise ladder. Although I remain skeptical this will happen, I was encouraged by their effort and overall improved play in the last series.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

IDK if their play improved as much as UMich isn't as defensively staunch as OSU.

 

[D2D]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

IDK if their play improved as much as UMich isn't as defensively staunch as OSU.

Totally agree with this, but to me it looked like the Gophs were trying harder and they ended up being rewarded for it.
(vs. Michigan State, who's no better than Michigan, not so much)

 

[SteveO]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I think this is a team that is still trying to find its identity and getting itself fully immersed with the culture of the new coaching staff. While these guys have been playing hockey their entire lives they're still human and if not kids very young men. The UMD series shouldn't have been a benchmark because it was just too early. Reality then set in and it's taken time to adjust to what they really have. I am still not convinced this team lacks as much talent as some assert, but I also haven't been able to watch as many minutes as of most of you. This isn't a Frozen Four team mind you but I also can't write them off finding their way into the NCAAs.

I think that relying on Robson isn't sustainable for an entire season as previously noted, but by keeping them in games and going 1-0-1 on the road against a decent UMi team could be a spark. Knowing they have a guy in net that can save them might help their confidence level and allow them to take more low risk chances rather than playing as conservatively as they have. While I prefer seeing them win 5-3 if it takes 3-2 every night just get it done.

I have a feeling Bob is going to have some hard conversations with several players during the break. There's also talk of experimenting with Novak on D which if it works would help their transition game coming out of their own zone. Perhaps my eternal optimism is unwarranted but dammit I know no other way.

Well said SS. Novak on D...interesting. Your closing statement is classic Arthur Clarke. It's our delusional optimism, the obligatory Hope, that makes the world work, even when it's not working.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I agree with everything you said in your post above, until this. Quite frankly this team is not going to blow out any decent team based on superior talent; it's just not there - especially on defense. This team will need to rely on superior effort and continued excellent goaltending, game in and game out, if they are to mount a climb up the PairWise ladder. Although I remain skeptical this will happen, I was encouraged by their effort and overall improved play in the last series.

I didn't say they would 'blow out decent teams'. I said they could compete. I don't think they have as much talent as the top teams in the country, but I also don't think they are middle of the pack or lower, in the country either. We can all remember games against teams that were clearly less talented than MN, who gave the Gophers fits while playing them, because they played a relentless style. (Holy Cross didn't deserve to be on the same ice based on the talent discrepancy.) Does everyone think that the first (or maybe even last year's team) UMD team to win the championship was the most talented in the tourney that year? They squeaked by in their games but came out ahead based on effort. (Will beats skill.) Or I remember the first year of the back to back Denver wins. They didn't come in as a team I expected to win it based on their talent, but once I saw the way they were playing together and outworking opponents in the first two games, I told my wife that if they could keep it up for two more games, they would win it all. And you don't have to be faster at all positions to outwork a team. It is about taking away time and space so the opponent has little time to think or react when defending or forechecking. The Gophs have had a lot of stretches where they are way too tentative. I think this team is quicker than many people think, but hesitation on plays makes them appear slower.

I am hoping some of this is just uncertainty with a new system, but it seemed to be the same issue last year, so I hope it is not a team leadership issue. (the freshman line doesn't seem to have this issue as often, and they are the ones you expect to be most inconsistent.) Maybe the new coaching voices will succeed in sinking in. I have a friend who played for Herbie at SCSU (this was after the Olympics). Herbie tried to get the team to switch to the European style of weaving all over the ice. My buddy said he was pretty much clueless all year on where he was supposed to be because it was so different from everything they had learned their whole life. Of course Bob isn't instituting such a drastic change, so maybe the players will start to get it soon.

 

[Koho]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-19: The Motzko Era Begins!

I went with Super Tacks for a few years, but for the most part I've always been a Bauer Supreme guy. Supreme's are a good power skate and it seemed like I could break in the boot quicker than Tacks. Vapors are a good speed and agility skate, but I never liked the boot fit. What kind of skates did you get?

Supremes. What I had before, but I had a pair from the pre-molded plastic days, so the stiffness is hard to get used to. And I figured out that the new blades, with almost no rocker was part of the issue too. Been having them take some off the ends of the blades to get more rocker and things are improving. It was so bad I felt like I couldn't stickhandle because I actually had to concentrate on skating. Think I had a fall each of the first three times I played in them, including a blueline trip on a partial breakaway for everyone to see. It is getting better though.