bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Military History Thread
Yes, mistakes were made, but that doesn't mean you have to focus on them!
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Military History Thread
- Thread starter MountieBoyOz
- Start date
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Proud2baLaker
Master of Science
Re: Military History Thread
Check out the casualties listed for that: British - 1 wounded. Zanzibar - 500 killed or wounded, 3 boats sunk, one shore battery destroyed.
Check out the casualties listed for that: British - 1 wounded. Zanzibar - 500 killed or wounded, 3 boats sunk, one shore battery destroyed.
Re: Military History Thread
Perhaps the best example in our history where political expediency and doing the right thing came together.
Perhaps the best example in our history where political expediency and doing the right thing came together.
MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: Military History Thread
That move took Lord Palmerston and the Brits plus the French out of play. Whatever the motivation, it worked.
That move took Lord Palmerston and the Brits plus the French out of play. Whatever the motivation, it worked.
MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: Military History Thread
Watch an excellent British produced documentary called The First World War. I didn't realize how new some of the techniques and weapons that were used in that war. I also gained a lot of respect for Marshal Foch of France. He was only 65 days off of his prediction of a Second World War.
Watch an excellent British produced documentary called The First World War. I didn't realize how new some of the techniques and weapons that were used in that war. I also gained a lot of respect for Marshal Foch of France. He was only 65 days off of his prediction of a Second World War.
Re: Military History Thread
A terrific series which the Military Channel replays frequently.
A terrific series which the Military Channel replays frequently.
MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: Military History Thread
Since I work at nights mostly and the wife is away teaching during most of the year, it's a great channel to watch. Like I said at the start of the thread, I like WWI history a lot. Some of the strategy was just plain head-scratching. Also, I think the U.S. doesn't really talk about the war since we were in it for about a quarter of it (1917-18). I also didn't know that America didn't really want to listen to what their "Associated Power" brethren had to say. (America wasn't actually part of the Allies in that war.)
Since I work at nights mostly and the wife is away teaching during most of the year, it's a great channel to watch. Like I said at the start of the thread, I like WWI history a lot. Some of the strategy was just plain head-scratching. Also, I think the U.S. doesn't really talk about the war since we were in it for about a quarter of it (1917-18). I also didn't know that America didn't really want to listen to what their "Associated Power" brethren had to say. (America wasn't actually part of the Allies in that war.)
Re: Military History Thread
But such a waste of a whole generation of youth! It was Civil War tactics against modern weapons. Slaughter.
Re: Military History Thread
And the sense that it made inevitable an even worse conflict. With civilians the targets of strategic bombing and all the rest. The vengeful allies sought to punish Germany at Versailles, and virtually guaranteed the rise of Hitler or someone like him. A.J.P. Taylor, in his excellent "The Origins of the Second World War," lays it all out. Criticized initially as being "pro-Hitler," Taylor's book is now understood to be seminal.
In WWII the allies crushed German Naziism, Japanese militrism and Italian facism. No such sense of accomplishment followed the end of WWI. The map of Europe was redrawn, some empires were toppled, but not much else. Whereas, despite fifty years of cold war (which the west won), we have only to look to the world community to see the place peaceful prosperous and democratic Germany, Japan and Italy occupy.
And the sense that it made inevitable an even worse conflict. With civilians the targets of strategic bombing and all the rest. The vengeful allies sought to punish Germany at Versailles, and virtually guaranteed the rise of Hitler or someone like him. A.J.P. Taylor, in his excellent "The Origins of the Second World War," lays it all out. Criticized initially as being "pro-Hitler," Taylor's book is now understood to be seminal.
In WWII the allies crushed German Naziism, Japanese militrism and Italian facism. No such sense of accomplishment followed the end of WWI. The map of Europe was redrawn, some empires were toppled, but not much else. Whereas, despite fifty years of cold war (which the west won), we have only to look to the world community to see the place peaceful prosperous and democratic Germany, Japan and Italy occupy.
MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: Military History Thread
I thought a majority of French generals wanted to go to Berlin and crush Germany once and for all, but that was voted down. I remember John Manynard Keynes calculated that the reparations would take at least until the 90s to be paid back.
I thought a majority of French generals wanted to go to Berlin and crush Germany once and for all, but that was voted down. I remember John Manynard Keynes calculated that the reparations would take at least until the 90s to be paid back.
Re: Military History Thread
That may be true, I hadn't read that. A French version of the Morgenthau Plan. After the armistice they devoted their free time to surrender practice against the blitzkrieg, at which they became the best in the world. IIRC, it was General Gamelin's HQ that had no radio or telephone capability. In "M*A*S*H" there was a running gag where Bobby Troop would say: "G*d D*amn army." That about covers it.
That may be true, I hadn't read that. A French version of the Morgenthau Plan. After the armistice they devoted their free time to surrender practice against the blitzkrieg, at which they became the best in the world. IIRC, it was General Gamelin's HQ that had no radio or telephone capability. In "M*A*S*H" there was a running gag where Bobby Troop would say: "G*d D*amn army." That about covers it.
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MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: Military History Thread
I made a joke at my wife's expense. She loves France and said she wanted to go to Paris. I told her the quickest way was to march in from Berlin.
Needless to say, she wasn't thrilled with me.
I made a joke at my wife's expense. She loves France and said she wanted to go to Paris. I told her the quickest way was to march in from Berlin.
Needless to say, she wasn't thrilled with me.Re: Military History Thread
There's that line in "Casablanca" where Claude Rains tells Major Strasser he was with the blundering Americans when they "blundered into Berlin" in the last war. Innacurate, of course, but he was making a very valid point. Or as Admiral Yamamoto may have said: "I fear all we have done is to waken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Whether he said it or not, it was certainly true.*
I first saw "Tora, Tora, Tora" (an international version) in Tokyo, which my old man, who had been an Army surgeon in the Pacific found, uh, ironic.
I made a joke at my wife's expense. She loves France and said she wanted to go to Paris. I told her the quickest way was to march in from Berlin.
There's that line in "Casablanca" where Claude Rains tells Major Strasser he was with the blundering Americans when they "blundered into Berlin" in the last war. Innacurate, of course, but he was making a very valid point. Or as Admiral Yamamoto may have said: "I fear all we have done is to waken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Whether he said it or not, it was certainly true.*
I first saw "Tora, Tora, Tora" (an international version) in Tokyo, which my old man, who had been an Army surgeon in the Pacific found, uh, ironic.
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Re: Military History Thread
Well Keynes was off at least by a few years.
My favorite Clemenceau story is that he wanted be buried facing Germany so he could always keep an eye on them.
Well Keynes was off at least by a few years.
My favorite Clemenceau story is that he wanted be buried facing Germany so he could always keep an eye on them.
Re: Military History Thread
Buried face down, no doubt, knowing what was coming sooner or later.
Buried face down, no doubt, knowing what was coming sooner or later.
Re: Military History Thread
For that I think we have to give great credit to George Marshall and Harry Truman. They saw a vacuum and knew that something would fill it quickly, and so they had the US step forward with generosity and forgiveness ("It was never you, people, with whom we were at war, it was merely your feckless leaders. Now that they are gone, we can be friends."). Tremendous foresight.
For that I think we have to give great credit to George Marshall and Harry Truman. They saw a vacuum and knew that something would fill it quickly, and so they had the US step forward with generosity and forgiveness ("It was never you, people, with whom we were at war, it was merely your feckless leaders. Now that they are gone, we can be friends."). Tremendous foresight.
MadTownSioux
Fighting Sioux Hockey Fan
Re: Military History Thread
George C. Scott, as General George S. Patton Jr.:
George C. Scott, as General George S. Patton Jr.:
"Carthago delenda est"