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Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
- Thread starter OnMAA
- Start date
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
You're most welcome. We had a great time and enjoyed the fine company on both days. Besides, what could be more entertaining than watching a mover and shaker of the auto industry hold court from a lawn chair perched in the back of my truck.
You're most welcome. We had a great time and enjoyed the fine company on both days. Besides, what could be more entertaining than watching a mover and shaker of the auto industry hold court from a lawn chair perched in the back of my truck.
UCONN FAN
New member
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
I would have to disagree with you. College coaches want to see how a recruit plays against current college players. These current college players are for the most part going to be Freshman and Sophmores next season. This years and next years recruits will play against these same girls in college. There was a team in "A" division with juniors in high school, all Tier I players, development camp attendies, and some U-18 players playing against very low level teams. This NOT what college coaches want to see. This team didn't even have a goal scored against them in round robin play and won all 3 games by double digits. This team was as good if not better than 70% (maybe higher) of the teams in the "AA" division and still chose to play in the "A" division (for the second straight year) for whatever reason. I asked one of the college coaches if she saw them play and she laughed and said for 5 minutes and then she left because it was so aweful to watch. She asked me if I knew why they entered the "A" division with "that much talent"? I didn't have an answer but have to question why that team or any parent of one of these players for that matter would choose to play in the "A" division when most of those girls are 2 short seasons from playing DI. I guess they wanted a trophy.
As far as this tournament goes it has become more of a U-16 tournament in the "A" division and have and have nots in the "AA". One problem I see is that teams commit to the chowder cup back in the winter before they have even filled their rosters. How do you enter in the "AA" to play against the likes of Team Celine and NAHA when you don't even know who's on your roster? Some of these teams do have a legit recruit or 2 but that is not enough to enter the "AA: division. This is and always has been a U-20 tournament. As a coach you have to plan on possibly playing teams who's roster consists entirely of DI players and then chose your level.
This years tournament should have been 4 brackets at the most in the "AA" division, maybe less. I know Mike relies on the coaches to assess their teams and place them accordingly but obviously that system is not working.
I would have to disagree with you. College coaches want to see how a recruit plays against current college players. These current college players are for the most part going to be Freshman and Sophmores next season. This years and next years recruits will play against these same girls in college. There was a team in "A" division with juniors in high school, all Tier I players, development camp attendies, and some U-18 players playing against very low level teams. This NOT what college coaches want to see. This team didn't even have a goal scored against them in round robin play and won all 3 games by double digits. This team was as good if not better than 70% (maybe higher) of the teams in the "AA" division and still chose to play in the "A" division (for the second straight year) for whatever reason. I asked one of the college coaches if she saw them play and she laughed and said for 5 minutes and then she left because it was so aweful to watch. She asked me if I knew why they entered the "A" division with "that much talent"? I didn't have an answer but have to question why that team or any parent of one of these players for that matter would choose to play in the "A" division when most of those girls are 2 short seasons from playing DI. I guess they wanted a trophy.
As far as this tournament goes it has become more of a U-16 tournament in the "A" division and have and have nots in the "AA". One problem I see is that teams commit to the chowder cup back in the winter before they have even filled their rosters. How do you enter in the "AA" to play against the likes of Team Celine and NAHA when you don't even know who's on your roster? Some of these teams do have a legit recruit or 2 but that is not enough to enter the "AA: division. This is and always has been a U-20 tournament. As a coach you have to plan on possibly playing teams who's roster consists entirely of DI players and then chose your level.
This years tournament should have been 4 brackets at the most in the "AA" division, maybe less. I know Mike relies on the coaches to assess their teams and place them accordingly but obviously that system is not working.
Last edited:
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. At least 1/3 probably more like 40% of the AA teams were overmatched if not overwhelmed. As for good teams playing down in A, not sure what the coaches are thinking. Spend a fair amount of money to cakewalk three pool games. Can't be much fun for the players either. I'd like to see a u-24( College Division, with a low # of teams, 8 maybe), a u20( AA) and a u18 (A)
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. At least 1/3 probably more like 40% of the AA teams were overmatched if not overwhelmed. As for good teams playing down in A, not sure what the coaches are thinking. Spend a fair amount of money to cakewalk three pool games. Can't be much fun for the players either. I'd like to see a u-24( College Division, with a low # of teams, 8 maybe), a u20( AA) and a u18 (A)
hockeyfan111
Registered User
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
I agree with your recommendation regarding a U24 or even Over 20 division. Speaking to some of the girls that have reached their age limit under the present scenario, they were sad that their opportunity to get together with friends, family and others was coming to an end via the Summer Chowder Cup. Any idea on how to promote or organize such a division? I know several girls that would be willing to assist; and they know several more and so on and so on.
on2thinice
Registered User
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Here is my proposed divisions for the 2011 Chowder Cup, what do you think?
AAA (22U College Only/19 to 22 yrs old)
1989 Graduating College Seniors
1990 Completed Junior College Year
1991 Completed Sophomore College Year
1992 Completed Freshman College Year
AA (20U College & HS Mix/17 to 20 yrs old)
1991 Completed Sophomore College Year
1992 Completed Freshman College Year
1993 Graduating High School Seniors
1994 Completed 11th Grade High School
A (18U High School Only/15 to 18 yrs old)
1993 Graduating High School Seniors
1994 Completed 11th Grade High School
1995 Completed 10th Grade High School
1996 Completed 9th Grade High School
Here is my proposed divisions for the 2011 Chowder Cup, what do you think?
AAA (22U College Only/19 to 22 yrs old)
1989 Graduating College Seniors
1990 Completed Junior College Year
1991 Completed Sophomore College Year
1992 Completed Freshman College Year
AA (20U College & HS Mix/17 to 20 yrs old)
1991 Completed Sophomore College Year
1992 Completed Freshman College Year
1993 Graduating High School Seniors
1994 Completed 11th Grade High School
A (18U High School Only/15 to 18 yrs old)
1993 Graduating High School Seniors
1994 Completed 11th Grade High School
1995 Completed 10th Grade High School
1996 Completed 9th Grade High School
hopefulldad
New member
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
anyone happen to see any of the Plymouth States recruits
anyone happen to see any of the Plymouth States recruits
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
I don't know. I think its a good idea to set up a tourney for the older girls if there is ice but I think the biggest complaint I heard from coaches and scouts is that the tourney was too big and too many venues. Most coaches I talked to said they wish that it was a smaller tourney and held at one venue so that they could see more potential recruits. With 4 rinks it was hard for them to get to all of the recruits that they wanted to see and the quality of play produced some games that were blowouts and not good games from which to judge recruits.
I don't know. I think its a good idea to set up a tourney for the older girls if there is ice but I think the biggest complaint I heard from coaches and scouts is that the tourney was too big and too many venues. Most coaches I talked to said they wish that it was a smaller tourney and held at one venue so that they could see more potential recruits. With 4 rinks it was hard for them to get to all of the recruits that they wanted to see and the quality of play produced some games that were blowouts and not good games from which to judge recruits.
hockeyfan111
Registered User
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Agree, but could accomplish by having the Over 20's in a separate rink. Leave the other two younger divisions to either split between the remaining two rinks or assign a rink to each division. Pretty sure the coaches are not interested much in the Over 20's and probably have less interest in the lower A Division. Such an approach would seem to make many happy; although I'm sure will make others less pleased for some reason.
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
I think the Over 20 tourney would be good for the girls that want to continue to play. I think the AA and A divisions have to be tweaked to make it more competitive. There were a number of AA teams that should have been in A and vice versa. Maybe a smaller number of teams participating together with a better vetting process would help. Adding an over 20 division is probably a good idea if revenue is an issue. In other words, add an over-20 division and reduce the number of teams in the A and AA divisions.
I think the Over 20 tourney would be good for the girls that want to continue to play. I think the AA and A divisions have to be tweaked to make it more competitive. There were a number of AA teams that should have been in A and vice versa. Maybe a smaller number of teams participating together with a better vetting process would help. Adding an over 20 division is probably a good idea if revenue is an issue. In other words, add an over-20 division and reduce the number of teams in the A and AA divisions.
futurestar
New member
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
I'd almost go the other way and open the tournament up to any and all who can pay the fee. Less brackets and structure, not more. Just think how much fun it would be to see your "run what ya brung" U16/U19 mish mash team play against the current or past National teams. What an experience for the youngsters, eh? Let's make it a more open "Wild West" kind of event. After all, this is summer hockey. The scouts really don't need another excuse to vacation in the Boston area and pad their expense accounts.
I'd almost go the other way and open the tournament up to any and all who can pay the fee. Less brackets and structure, not more. Just think how much fun it would be to see your "run what ya brung" U16/U19 mish mash team play against the current or past National teams. What an experience for the youngsters, eh? Let's make it a more open "Wild West" kind of event. After all, this is summer hockey. The scouts really don't need another excuse to vacation in the Boston area and pad their expense accounts.
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Sorry but I disagree on this one. The entry fee and travel expenses are a lot to pay to play a bad game (kick butt or get your butt kicked, as the case may be). Whether the scouts are there or not, I think everyone is looking for a competitive tournament with good teams from around the country.
I'd almost go the other way and open the tournament up to any and all who can pay the fee. Less brackets and structure, not more. Just think how much fun it would be to see your "run what ya brung" U16/U19 mish mash team play against the current or past National teams. What an experience for the youngsters, eh? Let's make it a more open "Wild West" kind of event. After all, this is summer hockey. The scouts really don't need another excuse to vacation in the Boston area and pad their expense accounts.
Sorry but I disagree on this one. The entry fee and travel expenses are a lot to pay to play a bad game (kick butt or get your butt kicked, as the case may be). Whether the scouts are there or not, I think everyone is looking for a competitive tournament with good teams from around the country.
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Your suggestion is exactly what the 1st Chowder Cup was like at times , blowouts of 20-0, learn to skate girls vs college players.Brutal at best
I'd almost go the other way and open the tournament up to any and all who can pay the fee. Less brackets and structure, not more. Just think how much fun it would be to see your "run what ya brung" U16/U19 mish mash team play against the current or past National teams. What an experience for the youngsters, eh? Let's make it a more open "Wild West" kind of event. After all, this is summer hockey. The scouts really don't need another excuse to vacation in the Boston area and pad their expense accounts.
Your suggestion is exactly what the 1st Chowder Cup was like at times , blowouts of 20-0, learn to skate girls vs college players.Brutal at best
notfromaroundhere
A visitor in any town!
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Here is what I see is the problem...
Chowder Cup basically has 2 groups of skaters - the college players having a nice recreational tournament and the HS/Prep kids who are trying to be scouted.
Chowder Cup divides into 2 brackets - AA which is viewed by the college players as where they can play against other college players and the new hot D1 recruits. The A bracket is viewed by the college players as the place where the future D3 level HS players should be playing against each other.
The problem mostly lies within the HS/Prep kids (or should I say their parents) who think their Janey is a sure-fire D1 prospect who is buried on a roster of a hidden team. They think getting Janey's hiney kicked in front of D1 coaches is somehow going to change Janey's prospects. Janey's parents don't want to her to play against the same HS/Prep kids who kicked Janey's team's hiney all year long (despite Janey's "outstanding" play). If they hear X coach/team wants to play in the A bracket and be competitive, they shop for another coach/team who supports their vision of grandeur. Coaches who want to take a team to Chowder Cup take them at the level the parents want to play at.
Everyone here has talked about the D1 coaches who walk out of 20-0 games. I'm sure the D3 coaches aren't happy either, as the A Bracket games are missing a significant pool of players (Janey et al) who are getting their hineys kicked.
Yeah, there are borderline kids who could go either way (D1 or D3), but by and large, every Janey's parent thinks too highly of Janey's level of play and don't defer to the greater wisdom of coaches and tourney organizers.
And as to the sandbaggers in the A bracket - they often just have the problem of wanting to produce highlight video, but that really doesn't do their cause much good, as the level of competition is not easily hidden.
Chowder Cup, because it is an off-season event has a bigger problem than the normal in-season tourneys as the rosters are not set until after the tourney is sold out (although Carl does seem to sell out a little early for PB). There isn't a year-in, year-out consistency to many of the teams in the Chowder Cup, as it is summer pick-up hockey. So ultimately, they have no real means of controlling the entrants unless they reserve the right to reshuffle the deck (and not refund deposits) between the A and AA brackets at the last minute. And all the will do is get Janey's team to pull out in a huff and create a scheduling nightmare.
Welcome to the political animal of hockey tournaments.
Here is what I see is the problem...
Chowder Cup basically has 2 groups of skaters - the college players having a nice recreational tournament and the HS/Prep kids who are trying to be scouted.
Chowder Cup divides into 2 brackets - AA which is viewed by the college players as where they can play against other college players and the new hot D1 recruits. The A bracket is viewed by the college players as the place where the future D3 level HS players should be playing against each other.
The problem mostly lies within the HS/Prep kids (or should I say their parents) who think their Janey is a sure-fire D1 prospect who is buried on a roster of a hidden team. They think getting Janey's hiney kicked in front of D1 coaches is somehow going to change Janey's prospects. Janey's parents don't want to her to play against the same HS/Prep kids who kicked Janey's team's hiney all year long (despite Janey's "outstanding" play). If they hear X coach/team wants to play in the A bracket and be competitive, they shop for another coach/team who supports their vision of grandeur. Coaches who want to take a team to Chowder Cup take them at the level the parents want to play at.
Everyone here has talked about the D1 coaches who walk out of 20-0 games. I'm sure the D3 coaches aren't happy either, as the A Bracket games are missing a significant pool of players (Janey et al) who are getting their hineys kicked.
Yeah, there are borderline kids who could go either way (D1 or D3), but by and large, every Janey's parent thinks too highly of Janey's level of play and don't defer to the greater wisdom of coaches and tourney organizers.
And as to the sandbaggers in the A bracket - they often just have the problem of wanting to produce highlight video, but that really doesn't do their cause much good, as the level of competition is not easily hidden.
Chowder Cup, because it is an off-season event has a bigger problem than the normal in-season tourneys as the rosters are not set until after the tourney is sold out (although Carl does seem to sell out a little early for PB). There isn't a year-in, year-out consistency to many of the teams in the Chowder Cup, as it is summer pick-up hockey. So ultimately, they have no real means of controlling the entrants unless they reserve the right to reshuffle the deck (and not refund deposits) between the A and AA brackets at the last minute. And all the will do is get Janey's team to pull out in a huff and create a scheduling nightmare.
Welcome to the political animal of hockey tournaments.
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
The coaches are thinking they don't want to play in AA and get crushed 3 games either (after paying all that money to get there!) There is clearly a middle talent pool, some teams with a mix of D-1 and D-3 talent that are too good for A but not really good enough for the college player filled AA teams. They are the teams that ultimately advanced to the qrtrs where the good games in the A bracket actually began. But, you had a team with a handful of u18 National team members that didn't even make it to the semis. And, the Pittsburgh team made it to the semis with a group of girls, most of which are future D-3 at best.
Curious -- for those have been there before -- is this an ongoing discussion year after year where nothing really changes
The coaches are thinking they don't want to play in AA and get crushed 3 games either (after paying all that money to get there!) There is clearly a middle talent pool, some teams with a mix of D-1 and D-3 talent that are too good for A but not really good enough for the college player filled AA teams. They are the teams that ultimately advanced to the qrtrs where the good games in the A bracket actually began. But, you had a team with a handful of u18 National team members that didn't even make it to the semis. And, the Pittsburgh team made it to the semis with a group of girls, most of which are future D-3 at best.
Curious -- for those have been there before -- is this an ongoing discussion year after year where nothing really changes
notfromaroundhere
A visitor in any town!
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Yup. Happens every year.
In years past, it seems that Assabet's younger team would be one of those teams with the mix of D1 and D3 19U talent that would win the A bracket. Correct placement. They weren't running up 20-0 wins but were winning convincingly in most of their games. I have no problem with this situation as when they play against weaker teams in the round robin, the strenghts and weaknesses of their opponents were exposed, while those D1 level players on Assabet could show that they were clearly above the other competition.
The problem with having a few D3 prospect players on a AA team at this tournament is that those players will be exposed quickly and either embarass themselves or spend a lot of time on the bench leaving the D1 quality recruits to run out of gas at the end of the game.
The coaches are thinking they don't want to play in AA and get crushed 3 games either (after paying all that money to get there!) There is clearly a middle talent pool, some teams with a mix of D-1 and D-3 talent that are too good for A but not really good enough for the college player filled AA teams. They are the teams that ultimately advanced to the qrtrs where the good games in the A bracket actually began. But, you had a team with a handful of u18 National team members that didn't even make it to the semis. And, the Pittsburgh team made it to the semis with a group of girls, most of which are future D-3 at best.
Curious -- for those have been there before -- is this an ongoing discussion year after year where nothing really changes
Yup. Happens every year.
In years past, it seems that Assabet's younger team would be one of those teams with the mix of D1 and D3 19U talent that would win the A bracket. Correct placement. They weren't running up 20-0 wins but were winning convincingly in most of their games. I have no problem with this situation as when they play against weaker teams in the round robin, the strenghts and weaknesses of their opponents were exposed, while those D1 level players on Assabet could show that they were clearly above the other competition.
The problem with having a few D3 prospect players on a AA team at this tournament is that those players will be exposed quickly and either embarass themselves or spend a lot of time on the bench leaving the D1 quality recruits to run out of gas at the end of the game.
futurestar
New member
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Pictures:
http://www.proamhockey.com/WomensChowderCup2010.html
YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/womenschowdercup
Pictures:
http://www.proamhockey.com/WomensChowderCup2010.html
YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/womenschowdercup
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Season is over. Time to think summer
What happened to the Chowder Cup website?.
Can't get anything from that site to come up properly.
All the old direct links I had to the womens chowder cup are dead. The main "proam" hockey page is no help, as every link on it seems to return back to a home page with no real info.
So are we dealing with dead Links, reconstruction or user error ?.
Anyone know this years entry fees ?
There was talk about a third more elite division. Anyone know the scoop ?.
There is also talk about a competing event in Marlboro. Does anyone have more details/opinions on that.?
Season is over. Time to think summer
What happened to the Chowder Cup website?.
Can't get anything from that site to come up properly.
All the old direct links I had to the womens chowder cup are dead. The main "proam" hockey page is no help, as every link on it seems to return back to a home page with no real info.
So are we dealing with dead Links, reconstruction or user error ?.
Anyone know this years entry fees ?
There was talk about a third more elite division. Anyone know the scoop ?.
There is also talk about a competing event in Marlboro. Does anyone have more details/opinions on that.?
Re: Mid Summer Classic - Chowder
Looks like they're improving it: http://www.proamhockey.com/2011-women-s-cc-s12007
Looks like they're improving it: http://www.proamhockey.com/2011-women-s-cc-s12007