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Michigan Hockey 22-23, new coach, new players, new era

MichVandal said:
If you think this is a new thing and just because our coaches have been able to recruit well, ok. Good for you. But it happened well before we had any turn over, it happened when one or two players would leave a year early, and now it's happened when players only stay one or two season.

But if you are happy NOT making the FF, have at it. I know the Tech haters like to throw that "problem" out a lot, but the last time they made the FF was in 1981, when Mel Pearson was playing.

It's funny how people lash out in their jealousy in not being able to get the high draft picks. Petty jealousy. Have at that, too.
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Meh, just ignore the petty jealousy.

That being said, I am of the opinion that a slight adjustment in strategy is in order. I would start recruiting more mid round picks who stay 3-4 years. A team with 7 first round oicks sounds great but it's tough to win a national championship leaning on 18-19 olds to the degree we have been.
 
Puckstopper467 said:
more top players now leaving from this season, happening every year. if you think this is a remedy to win a national championship then Well Have at it....
the final 4 is the new national championship for UM
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Not a Michigan fan but if you make a habit of getting to the FF you're doing things right. I'm not sure why back to back FFs is something to mock. Any of the top programs would sign up for FF appearances. Eventually you'll break thru.
 
There hence the problem, UM could actually win a national championship if they stop drinking the NHL draft Kool-Aid. The teams winning the national championships are older and built for a 3 year run. UM could do this when they actually recruited and kept players in the program for 3-4 years. Minnesota Duluth, and Denver have been winning the most in the last 10 years this way. Throw in Providence and Union.. Do not give me the portal has changed this landscape!!! How many portal players did Quinnipiac have??
 
BTW UM only made it to the final 4 with all these draft picks as they had the easiest regional.. I mean do not argue that - PENN STATE WAS THE #2 SEED (Really)
 
Puckstopper467 said:
There hence the problem, UM could actually win a national championship if they stop drinking the NHL draft Kool-Aid. The teams winning the national championships are older and built for a 3 year run. UM could do this when they actually recruited and kept players in the program for 3-4 years. Minnesota Duluth, and Denver have been winning the most in the last 10 years this way. Throw in Providence and Union.. Do not give me the portal has changed this landscape!!! How many portal players did Quinnipiac have??
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Why? Michigan doesn't get the best drafted players, most of the time, those players are signed to come here before the draft. Fantilli isn't even drafted.

Everyone sees that experience seems to win the championship, which largely comes from solid d than anything else. But to tell a team to not get the most talented players it can get is absurd. And a little moronic. Again, you apparently can only see the last handful of seasons, but the same result has happened more often than not since 1992. Michigan made deep runs the year after a large group of players went to the NHL and it ended the same as when they were loaded with the NHL players.

What Michigan really needs is an assistant coach to concentrate on the defensive zone- and all of it- D play, Goalie, PK. The year we had that, the team was really ready to go all the way- but we will never know since that was 2020.

Your glance at Michigan losing also ignores how this season played out. This result was really good considering- just disappointing. Personally, I'd like to see how Naurato does next season when he has a full off season to work with the players, and hopefully we don't have any one lose serious ice time due to being really sick, etc.

IMHO, if you turned away a player who was in the top 20 in North America just because of your theory, you should be fired.
 
It's not a turn away, my opinion is UM is too young grabbing the high level drafted or going to be drafted 18/19 year old's over recruiting the older players. Leaving 1 year prior to overage or Overages into college is the formula. Sorry but look at the NCAA Champions all older teams. Let's keep this simple for UM fans.. Quinnipiac top line forward who scored the winning goal Jacob Quillan went from a 4th line player his freshman year at age 20 with 9 points to a top line player his sophomore year with 38 points. Playing all these 18/19 year old's is not the formula. Q Avg age 22 - UM Avg age 20

my overall point is you can have a few top end young 18/19 year old players as must haves, just not the high % that UM goes with and passes up on overages. Overages can play just as good or better and are with your program for 3-4 years. If players at UM are playing and performing the portal is not a factor
 
You are missing another thing- do you want to be in the FF once in a while, or on a regular basis? Union, Yale, and Providence managed to stick their one chance, but other than that... And QU- when they graduate all of these players, are they reloading or rebuilding? I'd rather have a 7 chances in 25 years than one.

And why are you bringing up the portal? Michigan only loses players via the portal, not bring them in.

Anyway, it's not my choice to make, and we have a brand new coach. Before I start to lay into him in terms of recruiting, it's better to give him a few seasons to work out a system. It's pretty shocking how few people understand the issues that this program faced coming into the season- Naurato had to recruit the current team to stay, for crying out loud. Forced coaching turnovers are rarely smooth like that.

But you feel bad that your program can't get the same caliber of players that Michigan can get. That's fine. Forgive me for dismissing the opinion of a person who is clearly not a fan of Michigan. Or not, as I think it would be foolish to listen to haters.
 
MichVandal said:
Why? Michigan doesn't get the best drafted players, most of the time, those players are signed to come here before the draft. Fantilli isn't even drafted.

Everyone sees that experience seems to win the championship, which largely comes from solid d than anything else. But to tell a team to not get the most talented players it can get is absurd. And a little moronic. Again, you apparently can only see the last handful of seasons, but the same result has happened more often than not since 1992. Michigan made deep runs the year after a large group of players went to the NHL and it ended the same as when they were loaded with the NHL players.

What Michigan really needs is an assistant coach to concentrate on the defensive zone- and all of it- D play, Goalie, PK. The year we had that, the team was really ready to go all the way- but we will never know since that was 2020.

Your glance at Michigan losing also ignores how this season played out. This result was really good considering- just disappointing. Personally, I'd like to see how Naurato does next season when he has a full off season to work with the players, and hopefully we don't have any one lose serious ice time due to being really sick, etc.

IMHO, if you turned away a player who was in the top 20 in North America just because of your theory, you should be fired.
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The recipe to win it all has been to build a team comprised of older, stronger players who are selfless and committed and are not necessarily the most talented individually. This has been very clear. The recipe for "almost doing it" is to try with a focus on young hotshot individually-focused high draft choices who leave after 1-2 years. This is also has been clearly demonstrated, over and over. Hockey is a team sport, to state the obvious. References to this or that assistant coach that didn't exist, or to a past season cut short that would have otherwise been a sure thing is arm waving chaff. Incidentally, MI football shows similar characteristics.
 
MichVandal said:
You are missing another thing- do you want to be in the FF once in a while, or on a regular basis? Union, Yale, and Providence managed to stick their one chance, but other than that... And QU- when they graduate all of these players, are they reloading or rebuilding? I'd rather have a 7 chances in 25 years than one.

And why are you bringing up the portal? Michigan only loses players via the portal, not bring them in.

Anyway, it's not my choice to make, and we have a brand new coach. Before I start to lay into him in terms of recruiting, it's better to give him a few seasons to work out a system. It's pretty shocking how few people understand the issues that this program faced coming into the season- Naurato had to recruit the current team to stay, for crying out loud. Forced coaching turnovers are rarely smooth like that.

But you feel bad that your program can't get the same caliber of players that Michigan can get. That's fine. Forgive me for dismissing the opinion of a person who is clearly not a fan of Michigan. Or not, as I think it would be foolish to listen to haters.
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I totally agree about Naurato. He came into a very tough situation and did a great.job. I am extremely optimistic about the future of the program under his leadership.

That being said, I feel very strongly that a slight change in recruiting strategy is in order. Of course you don't stop recruiting players like Fantilli, Larkin, and Connor, etc. But to win championships he needs to mix in more 19-20 year old freshman who are likely to stay for 4 years. That will take pressure off of the Fantillis to do everything. More Nick Blankenburgs.
 
QU/UM said:
I totally agree about Naurato. He came into a very tough situation and did a great.job. I am extremely optimistic about the future of the program under his leadership.

That being said, I feel very strongly that a slight change in recruiting strategy is in order. Of course you don't stop recruiting players like Fantilli, Larkin, and Connor, etc. But to win championships he needs to mix in more 19-20 year old freshman who are likely to stay for 4 years. That will take pressure off of the Fantillis to do everything. More Nick Blankenburgs.
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So thinking about it more- how do you predict who is going early and who isn't? There have been quite a few players go early when nobody expected them to, and some that stayed 4 seasons when they could have gone. Like Copp on one hand and Kevin Porter on the other- Copp left when nobody expected it (and Red was really angry about it) whereas Porter could have left with other teammates but stayed to lead the team to an unlikely semi final.

Let alone the times players committed and didn't even come. We've had multiple goalies that said they would come and not at the last possible moment.

BTW, of the three players you posted, the only one that I thought would leave after one season was Connor. Larkin didn't look quite solid enough to go, but he clearly had a great off season to have a great rookie seasons. If there was one thing I wished I said to Kyle was that he should see whoever Larkin did after the season.

And Blankenburg stayed 4 seasons because he wasn't even on anyone's NHL radar until his senior season. We have those kind of players, too- given Steve Holtz's major, there's no way he's planning on leaving early- you don't choose engineering when you plan on leaving early.

I've been watching Michigan Hockey since 1990, and that's been a pretty common thing happening all the time. Aaron Ward left a season early back when that rarely ever happened.
 
MichVandal said:
So thinking about it more- how do you predict who is going early and who isn't? There have been quite a few players go early when nobody expected them to, and some that stayed 4 seasons when they could have gone. Like Copp on one hand and Kevin Porter on the other- Copp left when nobody expected it (and Red was really angry about it) whereas Porter could have left with other teammates but stayed to lead the team to an unlikely semi final.

Let alone the times players committed and didn't even come. We've had multiple goalies that said they would come and not at the last possible moment.

BTW, of the three players you posted, the only one that I thought would leave after one season was Connor. Larkin didn't look quite solid enough to go, but he clearly had a great off season to have a great rookie seasons. If there was one thing I wished I said to Kyle was that he should see whoever Larkin did after the season.

And Blankenburg stayed 4 seasons because he wasn't even on anyone's NHL radar until his senior season. We have those kind of players, too- given Steve Holtz's major, there's no way he's planning on leaving early- you don't choose engineering when you plan on leaving early.

I've been watching Michigan Hockey since 1990, and that's been a pretty common thing happening all the time. Aaron Ward left a season early back when that rarely ever happened.
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I am a fan of both QU and UM (I have an alum son from each school). QU does a lot of recruiting from US junior leagues and Canadian minor juniors (eg BCHL). In those leagues you can play until 20. QU gets a lot of players from those leagues; most are undrafted 20 year old freshman and generally stay 4 years. Most don't play much in year 1. Some start to contribute in year 2. By year 3 and 4 they are ready to not only contribute but to lead.

I'm not talking about UM completely changing their recruiting model. Just start to sprinkle in a few of fhese types. IMHO it will make a difference.
 
QU/UM said:
I am a fan of both QU and UM (I have an alum son from each school). QU does a lot of recruiting from US junior leagues and Canadian minor juniors (eg BCHL). In those leagues you can play until 20. QU gets a lot of players from those leagues; most are undrafted 20 year old freshman and generally stay 4 years. Most don't play much in year 1. Some start to contribute in year 2. By year 3 and 4 they are ready to not only contribute but to lead.

I'm not talking about UM completely changing their recruiting model. Just start to sprinkle in a few of fhese types. IMHO it will make a difference.
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We do get those guys, too. TJ Hughes is a 21 year old Freshman. Steve Holtz is a 24 year old Jr. Even Kienen Draper is a 21 year old Freshman. There are more, but when you have 18 year old Fantilli, it offsets the 21 year old freshmen. We have 6 players form the BCHL, 11 from the USHL, it's just the 6 from the USNTDP off set all of those guys.

So blaming only the NHL talent as they are all too young is misleading. We also have older players.
 
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MichVandal said:
You are missing another thing- do you want to be in the FF once in a while, or on a regular basis? Union, Yale, and Providence managed to stick their one chance, but other than that... And QU- when they graduate all of these players, are they reloading or rebuilding? I'd rather have a 7 chances in 25 years than one.

And why are you bringing up the portal? Michigan only loses players via the portal, not bring them in.

Anyway, it's not my choice to make, and we have a brand new coach. Before I start to lay into him in terms of recruiting, it's better to give him a few seasons to work out a system. It's pretty shocking how few people understand the issues that this program faced coming into the season- Naurato had to recruit the current team to stay, for crying out loud. Forced coaching turnovers are rarely smooth like that.

But you feel bad that your program can't get the same caliber of players that Michigan can get. That's fine. Forgive me for dismissing the opinion of a person who is clearly not a fan of Michigan. Or not, as I think it would be foolish to listen to haters.
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What are you talking about? Qpac will have ONE chance at a Natty in 25 years? They’ve been to 30% of all the National Championship games in the last decade. We don’t rebuild fella…..we reload.
 
ICECAT1811 said:
What are you talking about? Qpac will have ONE chance at a Natty in 25 years? They’ve been to 30% of all the National Championship games in last 10 years. We don’t rebuild fella…..we reload.
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Just using you as an example. If I read your roster right, you will be replacing 11 players between grad students and seniors. Not exactly a simple reload.
 
Unless their players turn pro after winning a title, the Qpac model will be to have its seniors come back for their Covid bonus year and be fifth year players and get other portal grad students to replace the ones who depart now.
 
alnike said:
Unless their players turn pro after winning a title, the Qpac model will be to have its seniors come back for their Covid bonus year and be fifth year players and get other portal grad students to replace the ones who depart now.
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I believe QU has already picked up 2 transfers. They may or may not win another natty but they should be a perennial tournament team at the very least.
 
alnike said:
Unless their players turn pro after winning a title, the Qpac model will be to have its seniors come back for their Covid bonus year and be fifth year players and get other portal grad students to replace the ones who depart now.
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It's not really relevant to what I was getting at, but good to know.

There are teams that have come and gone from the FF, and who knows if they will be back- once senior laden teams get there, sometimes they can't backfill the graduating players. It happens.

Still, Michigan has more than a handful of older players- a good chunk of the freshmen are 21, the team isn't just made of U18 team players- if CHN is right, we have two 21 year old incoming freshmen and two 20 year old (at season start). And we still need to give Naurato some space and time to define what he thinks is the right path.
 
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