Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

[Patman]

I don't know where you can find the actual rule posted, but the jist of it from my understanding is that the Big Ten won't a conference tournament unless there are at least six schools participating in the sport. And without a conference tournament, it has never made sense financially to form a BTHC.

Once PSU added hockey, it gave them the sixth team, and the ability to hold a conference tournament if they formed a BTHC.

Yes, but what kind of vote is necessary to carry that process forward? Is it the full membership or just the concerned parties?

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Yes, but what kind of vote is necessary to carry that process forward? Is it the full membership or just the concerned parties?

I have no idea. I was just clarifying that the rule is six schools, not 50% of the conference.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

I don't know where you can find the actual rule posted, but the jist of it from my understanding is that the Big Ten won't allow a conference tournament unless there are at least six schools participating in the sport. And without a conference tournament, it has never made sense financially to form a BTHC.

Once PSU added hockey, it gave them the sixth team, and the ability to hold a conference tournament if they formed a BTHC.

Right, that was my understanding as well, but I'm curious if their Bylaws say 50% or 6 teams. It never made a huge difference before because they always needed 6 to get an automatic bid. Of course, it wouldn't really make a difference now, as I'm sure they would grandfather the league in (if it said 50%), but I'm just curious what the Bylaws actually say.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

Ok, let's take the hockey perspective out of this. I guess it's possible, but not likely, especially not any time soon.

Let's even take out the location perspective. The closest current Big Ten school to Maryland and Rutgers is ~4hrs away from both institutions.

We're talking about a 9-1 Rutgers football team and a (usually) competitive Maryland hoops team. What are Kill and Tubby's excuses going to be when those teams get added in 2014?

Another thing, how will they adjust the divisions for football? They already don't make sense to me geographically so I would assume they will mess that up even worse once they add two more teams.

Serious question: Is there a hockey culture in New Jersey outside of the Devils?

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Right, that was my understanding as well, but I'm curious if their Bylaws say 50% or 6 teams. It never made a huge difference before because they always needed 6 to get an automatic bid. Of course, it wouldn't really make a difference now, as I'm sure they would grandfather the league in (if it said 50%), but I'm just curious what the Bylaws actually say.

Everything I have ever read or heard is that it is six teams. Hard number, not percentage. Has always been six teams. I have never read or heard anything about it being 50% of member schools.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

Ok, let's take the hockey perspective out of this. I guess it's possible, but not likely, especially not any time soon.

Let's even take out the location perspective. The closest current Big Ten school to Maryland and Rutgers is ~4hrs away from both institutions.

We're talking about a 9-1 Rutgers football team and a (usually) competitive Maryland hoops team. What are Kill and Tubby's excuses going to be when those teams get added in 2014?

Another thing, how will they adjust the divisions for football? They already don't make sense to me geographically so I would assume they will mess that up even worse once they add two more teams.

Serious question: Is there a hockey culture in New Jersey outside of the Devils?

Fair question. Couple of points.

The devils have to compete with both the Rangers and the Flyers for fans. Besides that HS hockey has been and continues to grow in NJ. The biggest problem many players and schools have is getting ice rink time.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Serious question: Is there a hockey culture in New Jersey outside of the Devils?

Yes. (USA Hockey registrations stats below):

1990-91: 6,452
2009-10: 16,041
Growth: 148.6%

Now, it's not the 53,450 participants Minnesota has or the 51,404 Michigan has, but it is a significant amount of participation and the growth is encouraging.

As for Maryland, Chris Peters at USofH had this to say:

I wanted to single out Maryland here to show how much it has continually grown over the last few years. In 2010-11, the state experienced 14% growth and is at an all-time high of 8,351 members. Some of this growth has been helped by a very solid and continually growing adult hockey community.

However, the youth ranks have grown significantly over the last two years. In 2010-11, youth membership had increased by 33.7% from 2008-09. This is an incredibly encouraging and exciting development.

There’s no doubt the success of Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals have played a role, but I’ve met some of the dedicated volunteers helping hockey in Maryland and they deserve a big piece of the credit.

Maryland’s neighbor, Virginia, also had another year of growth, increasing membership by an admirable 8.1%. While Washington, D.C., experienced an 8.5% spike in membership. Both have reached all-time highs in membership with 7,838 players in Virginia and 805 in D.C.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

Another thing, how will they adjust the divisions for football? They already don't make sense to me geographically so I would assume they will mess that up even worse once they add two more teams.

Maryland and RU to Penn State and OSU's division, Illinois going to Michigan's. Already announced I believe.

 

[Hammy]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

The Big Ten TV Network is based on a regional model that involves securing TV markets. My point about the Big Boyz possibly leaving the Big Ten, would be driven by ESPN throwing billion$ at some sort of a "Super National Conference." Today were talking millions, tomorrow...who knows?

The problem with your thinking is it removes the psychology of how programs want to view themselves. Some of those "big boyz" would end up being a doormat in the type of conference you are suggesting. As we all know, ego is a big thing in college athletics and I don't see most of those schools risking their current status/brand as a winner by possibly suddenly becoming the equivalent of Gopher football in their new super conference. The money is nice but fans at these places are also used to winning... and that will go down for some of these places in such a scenario.

And I'll say it again... a smart business person isn't going to ditch teams in sizable markets like Chicago and Minneapolis (which is what you are suggesting). Even if they are lousy teams, you are throwing away a healthy chunk of eyeballs.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

The problem with your thinking is it removes the psychology of how programs want to view themselves. Some of those "big boyz" would end up being a doormat in the type of conference you are suggesting. As we all know, ego is a big thing in college athletics and I don't see most of those schools risking their current status/brand as a winner by possibly suddenly becoming the equivalent of Gopher football in their new super conference. The money is nice but fans at these places are also used to winning... and that will go down for some of these places in such a scenario.

And I'll say it again... a smart business person isn't going to ditch teams in sizable markets like Chicago and Minneapolis (which is what you are suggesting). Even if they are lousy teams, you are throwing away a healthy chunk of eyeballs.

I wouldn't waste your time talking to him Hammy.

 

[Hammy]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

Right, that was my understanding as well, but I'm curious if their Bylaws say 50% or 6 teams. It never made a huge difference before because they always needed 6 to get an automatic bid. Of course, it wouldn't really make a difference now, as I'm sure they would grandfather the league in (if it said 50%), but I'm just curious what the Bylaws actually say.

My suspicion is that any 50% rule would mean 50% of the league at the time the decision to form is announced... and anything after that is a moot point.

 

[Hammy]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

I wouldn't waste your time talking to him Hammy.

I don't take it seriously (Or much of anything on USCHO for that matter. ). It is jealousy speaking with him given nobody cares about DU in any of these conversations on a national scale.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

My suspicion is that any 50% rule would mean 50% of the league at the time the decision to form is announced... and anything after that is a moot point.

I completely agree. I'm just curious what the actual Bylaws say...primarily for a potential Big 10 Lacrosse League. As I said before, the B1G Hockey League would get grandfathered in at this point.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I completely agree. I'm just curious what the actual Bylaws say...primarily for a potential Big 10 Lacrosse League. As I said before, the B1G Hockey League would get grandfathered in at this point.

<a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/lacrosse-blog/bal-maryland-still-mulling-options-for-lacrosse-program-20121120,0,2736557.story?track=rss">Maryland still mulling options for men's lacrosse program</a>

The biggest question looming on the horizon is where the Terps will land after leaving the ACC. Three other Big Ten schools in Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State field Division I men’s lacrosse programs, and if Rutgers also makes the leap from the Big East, that would bump the number of Big Ten lacrosse teams to five.

But that’s still one short of the required six-team conference to earn an automatic qualifier, and Tillman conceded that the absence of another team could discourage Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State from leaving the Eastern College Athletic Conference, their current home.

 

[pinch]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

There is nothing about 50%... or there would/ could have been a B1G conference prior to PSU (albeit with no autobid). The number is 6

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

Maryland and RU to Penn State and OSU's division, Illinois going to Michigan's. Already announced I believe.

Well that sucks. No longer in a division with Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan or Illinois? Wow, that would be terrible for Wisconsin.

I'd rather we head over to the Whichever-Division-Has-All-Of-Our-Rivals than Illinois.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

Although Big Ten communications director Scott Chipman said in an email that any new conference sports based on Monday's announcement of Maryland joining the conference are "still TBD," the addition of Maryland and likely new member Rutgers would provide the six teams the Big Ten requires to have a conference championship in a sport.

<a href="http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-73378864/">Big Ten could soon include women's lacrosse</a>

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

There is nothing about 50%... or there would/ could have been a B1G conference prior to PSU (albeit with no autobid). The number is 6

That's what I've heard as well, but I'm curious if anyone can find what the actual bylaws say.

 

[Almington]

The problem with your thinking is it removes the psychology of how programs want to view themselves. Some of those "big boyz" would end up being a doormat in the type of conference you are suggesting. As we all know, ego is a big thing in college athletics and I don't see most of those schools risking their current status/brand as a winner by possibly suddenly becoming the equivalent of Gopher football in their new super conference. The money is nice but fans at these places are also used to winning... and that will go down for some of these places in such a scenario.

And I'll say it again... a smart business person isn't going to ditch teams in sizable markets like Chicago and Minneapolis (which is what you are suggesting). Even if they are lousy teams, you are throwing away a healthy chunk of eyeballs.

They may want to dump teams in the future, but given the way the BTN revenue is, you can't dump half the schools and not lose a good chunk of your TV cable revenue that is based on the number of subscribers. How much are the cable companies going to pay for the network of the conference that dumped the local draw? In addition, the schools that leave the conference would have to start their own TV network. I really think that having a conference TV network (and associated revenue) are things that can't quickly and easily be replicated is going to be the tie that binds these super conferences and keeps them from fracturing into haves and havenots.

 

[Hammy]

Re: Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G

They may want to dump teams in the future, but given the way the BTN revenue is, you can't dump half the schools and not lose a good chunk of your TV cable revenue that is based on the number of subscribers. How much are the cable companies going to pay for the network of the conference that dumped the local draw? In addition, the schools that leave the conference would have to start their own TV network. I really think that having a conference TV network (and associated revenue) are things that can't quickly and easily be replicated is going to be the tie that binds these super conferences and keeps them from fracturing into haves and havenots.

The other issue is the academic ties. These places do care deeply about who they associate with on an academic reputation perspective. They have all been very tied together in that regard and care about how that influences their school's overall reputation. It's not just about the dollars in one sport. It goes far beyond that.