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Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

There is a superb story in today's Wall St. Journal about how NYPD and the Muslim community in NYC cooperate to keep the city safe. It should have been a warning sign in Boston when Tamerlan got into a shouting match with the imam in his mosque and then stormed out and quit. That would have set off red flags in NYC right away and the imam himself probably would have contacted the police.

Funny thing is that such work has been derided by the "proper" people and CAIR and the rest (Dougie Hooper, scumbag Americanus). Its only the "modern" era (last 15-20 years) we've had the radical preachers and the rest seep into the country. At the end of the day, most people want to live and let live and I'd have to think that's often the case with even the police. That being said, if there is somebody to keep tabs on then being able to discuss them is helpful.

That being said, IIRC, the big Boston mosques have had concrete ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other organizations who may not directly advocate violence but they are always carefully conditional about such things. So, I don't know if such dialogue is possible. Nevertheless, to be able to subtlely promote the peaceful and nudge away the radical is likely the way to go... but don't expect the MB or assorted pro-Islam-supremacism groups to just give up without pushback.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Nevertheless, to be able to subtlely promote the peaceful and nudge away the radical is likely the way to go... but don't expect the MB or assorted pro-Islam-supremacism groups to just give up without pushback.


We need a few people in prominent leadership roles to have the stones merely to ask "Where in Islam does it say that it is permissible to murder children? Where in Islam does it say that it is permissible to murder civilians, no matter what their religious beliefs?" and have prominent Muslim leaders alongside them when they say it.

Then just keep asking. Let them hem and haw and try to respond. Ask again and again. Genuine Muslims (i.e., those not using Islam as an excuse for unacceptable behavior) would rally behind, as they have already done! All they want is a chance to live in peace with their neighbors. It's been that approach that has allowed NYPD to forge such a cooperative bond: "hey we want you to live in peace too! You see how casually these radicals slaughter Muslims! You don't want your beautiful religion tainted with their savagery."
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

All defense lawyers are scum; nobody is ever incorrectly accused of a crime and then rightfully exonerated.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

All defense lawyers are scum; nobody is ever incorrectly accused of a crime and then rightfully exonerated.

Um, I think that just happened with the ricin case, no? The original suspect was released with no charges and claimed he was framed, and the authorities are taking that claim seriously and now are looking closely at the guy who (allegedly) framed him.

Although I have to agree with you that the original suspect apparently didn't need a "scumbag defense lawyer" to get released from jail, the authorities themselves figured out what was going on.

A friend of a friend knew someone who had been a defense attorney and then quit because he was so discouraged, all of his clients actually were guilty and he didn't have the stomach to keep defending them any longer.

Every now and then you do read about someone who had spent 15 years in jail was released because of new evidence. Lots of time it seems to come about because the DNA testing has advanced so much further in its accuracy and reliability; they had evidence in the original case that couldn't be tested then and when they re-tested it they found out they had the wrong guy.
 
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Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Um, I think that just happened with the ricin case, no? The original suspect was released with no charges and claimed he was framed, and the authorities are taking that claim seriously and now are looking closely at the guy who (allegedly) framed him.

Although I have to agree with you that the original suspect apparently didn't need a "scumbag defense lawyer" to get released from jail, the authorities themselves figured out what was going on.

A friend of a friend knew someone who had been a defense attorney and then quit because he was so discouraged, all of his clients actually were guilty and he didn't have the stomach to keep defending them any longer.

Every now and then you do read about someone who had spent 15 years in jail was released because of new evidence. Lots of time it seems to come about because the DNA testing has advanced so much further in its accuracy and reliability; they had evidence in the original case that couldn't be tested then and when they re-tested it they found out they had the wrong guy.

I have a feeling jmh is being a wee-bit sarcastic, especially considering he has already admitted to being a lawyer (though he didn't say which kind).
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Anyone else find it troubling that the hull of the boat they found him in was riddled with bullet holes and reports are circulating that he wasn't armed?
 
Anyone else find it troubling that the hull of the boat they found him in was riddled with bullet holes and reports are circulating that he wasn't armed?

Given the mayhem he had already caused, including killing a cop, shooting at and lobbing explosive devices at cops, absolutely not. If the story comes out that they KNEW he was unarmed, and proceeded to open fire, then... maybe.

However I also read that it was possible an accidental discharge by another cop may have been mistaken for bomber boy shooting at them.

In a situation like that, I can easily see how tense things were.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Given the mayhem he had already caused, including killing a cop, shooting at and lobbing explosive devices at cops, absolutely not. If the story comes out that they KNEW he was unarmed, and proceeded to open fire, then... maybe.

However I also read that it was possible an accidental discharge by another cop may have been mistaken for bomber boy shooting at them.

In a situation like that, I can easily see how tense things were.
Even if the police could see that he was unarmed, I don't blame them for assuming he might pull a weapon out from somewhere and take a few cops with him on his way out. He had a track record of dangerous and deceptive behavior.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Anyone else find it troubling that the hull of the boat they found him in was riddled with bullet holes and ["]reports["] are circulating that he wasn't armed?

well, we certainly were "troubled" with inaccurate reporting on more than one occasion....bottom line, if he is unable to speak because he shot himself through the back of his mouth in a failed suicide attempt, he "must have" had a gun handy, no? or are you suggesting that these "reports" are implying that he first tried to commit suicide, failed, and then crawled into the boat after? using up his very last bullet in the process, too?

They did capture him alive after all.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Given the mayhem he had already caused, including killing a cop, shooting at and lobbing explosive devices at cops, absolutely not. If the story comes out that they KNEW he was unarmed, and proceeded to open fire, then... maybe.

However I also read that it was possible an accidental discharge by another cop may have been mistaken for bomber boy shooting at them.

In a situation like that, I can easily see how tense things were.

Are you suggesting that he should go for a 1983 claim? :p:D:D

Tangent: In doing research for a 1983 claim, I came across a case out of the 1st Circuit where the officer was in a high speed car chase, and when the suspect's car spun out, the suspect got out of the car, and held his hands in the air. It was dark out, and the cop thought the suspect was going for some sort of weapon, so shot at the suspect a few times, hitting him once in the stomach. The suspect then reacted to being hit by moving his arms down to his stomach, and the cop thought that he was going for a gun, so the cop kept firing, reloaded, and fired some more. Ultimately, the cop stopped firing when the suspect rolled down into the ditch. The suspect had been hit 14 times, but was remarkably still alive. He filed a 1983 claim and lost, appealed, and lost the 1st circuit appeal. Moral of the story: Don't run from the cops.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Just published:

Authorities in New York said Thursday that the two Boston Marathon bombing suspects had “spontaneously” decided to travel to Manhattan to detonate the remainder of their explosives in Times Square.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the information came from authorities in Boston who have been questioning the younger suspect, 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, charged this week in connection with the April 15 bombings. His older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was killed in a firefight with place four days later.

New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly had previously said Mr. Tsarnaev and his brother, Tamerlan, 26, had intended to come to New York to ”party.” On Thursday, Mr. Kelly said the younger Mr. Tsarnaev revealed under subsequent questioning that the men intended to come to detonate some or all of the six devices that they had in their possession.
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

This editorial provides a different perspective than the one we've been hearing lately.


BEANTOWN SHUTDOWN A BIG MISTAKE

The shutdown of Boston during the search for the Marathon bombers was symptomatic of a country that still has a lot to learn about dealing with terrorism. Shutting down an entire city to find two people is not only absurd and extraordinarily costly, it feeds right into the hands of terrorists, who study our responses and plan their next attacks accordingly.

Yes, to the casual observer, Boston’s reaction seemed to send a message to other would-be terrorists that we are vigilant and seriously committed to keeping America safe. Boston’s initial response to the bombing was excellent, saving countless lives. Then the terrorists were quickly ID’d — and once their pictures were broadcast, they were both caught within 24 hours.

Even here, things hardly went as the FBI had planned. It had hoped that tips from friends and family might quickly identify the two. Instead, the brothers’ inability to move freely once the photos were broadcast triggered a crime spree fatal to at least one policeman — but also to one terrorist, with the other captured within hours.

On the other hand, jihadis around the world must have noticed what can only be called a law-enforcement overreaction of gigantic proportions.


If you agree with her original premise, then much of the rest of the editorial follows. However, it's not clear to me how valid her initial premise is.

She seems to think that the "shelter-in-place" warning was primarily given to help police hunt down the brothers (i.e. it was a law enforcement measure). it seemed to me that the "shelter-in-place" request was more of a public safety measure: did they have bombs already planted elsewhere merely waiting to be triggered? did they have confederates who might unleash attacks to help cover their escape?

I do have to agree that any astute terrorist watching the response would be tempted next time to get all the law enforcement people from an area concentrated in one spot, and then have a second wave ready to go after the areas now devoid of law enforcement because they are already preoccupied elsewhere.

I do have to agree with what she said here:

We still have a lot to learn about combating terrorism. It doesn’t require a show of force as much as a show of strength of purpose, using men and women who are specifically trained for the job. It isn’t the number of troops that you bring to the battle, but their training and their ability to fight the enemy’s war.

Terrorism can’t be combated by conventional means, because it isn’t conventional warfare; rather it requires a response that mirrors the enemy’s approach: not brute force, but tactics more closely aligned to special operations and appropriate to the threat.

which ironically is just what the NYPD does! (see post # 340 in this thread)
 
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Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

I do have to agree that any astute terrorist watching the response would be tempted next time to get all the law enforcement people from an area concentrated in one spot, and then have a second wave ready to go after the areas now devoid of law enforcement because they are already preoccupied elsewhere.
Like in Die Hard 3. "It's Christmas, you could steal City Hall!"
 
Re: Marathon Killers Apprehended: the Aftermath

Yep. I'm a patent lawyer so criminal stuff is way far from my field of expertise.

And yes, I was being sarcastic.
I was actually going to guess patent lawyer. Maybe you've mentioned it before, and it has stuck in the back of my mind.
 
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