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Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
- Thread starter Shirtless Guy
- Start date
I honestly don't care one way, or the other. I have my life to live. Just fun stirring the pot.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
I've tried to stay out of this....but this is another interesting twist...how believable? I don't know...
http://globalnews.ca/news/2494856/e.../?hootPostID=6dc4798b67a0ff86ce098feaf8af5d77
I've tried to stay out of this....but this is another interesting twist...how believable? I don't know...
http://globalnews.ca/news/2494856/e.../?hootPostID=6dc4798b67a0ff86ce098feaf8af5d77
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
The mystery note in that link specifically says she was burned in an aluminum smelter. Scott Tadych happened to work at an aluminum smelter, have a long history of violence towards women and all his co-workers gave statements that he was nuts. But why look into that...
The mystery note in that link specifically says she was burned in an aluminum smelter. Scott Tadych happened to work at an aluminum smelter, have a long history of violence towards women and all his co-workers gave statements that he was nuts. But why look into that...
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Here's yet another theory https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...amela_sturm_didnt_just_find_the_rav4_she_may/
Here's yet another theory https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...amela_sturm_didnt_just_find_the_rav4_she_may/
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
I apologize in advance if my post wanders a bit...I've had a few bottles of thinner tonight (still in celebration mode since Wisconsin won 2 consecutive games recently).
I recently watched the series and have held off on commenting online and bringing up with friends etc., until this week.
Prior to watching the show I guess you could say I had a vague resonance of this case somewhere in my brain but I had 0 knowledge of the first case (meaning the one Avery was eventually exonerated of). I'm guilty of tuning out the news generally on these types of cases as I find them much too depressing to consider for very long...but this series has changed that for me in a big way.
2 or 3 of the theories recently posted make sense but...what's the deal? Are there that many effing shady/creepy people visiting this lot or living in Manitowoc?
Anyway, initial reaction: I was dubious of the ex-boyfriend and his behavior (and TH's brother for that matter) when they showed him/them in episode 3 (iirc) and he/they were attempting to answer why they were on the lot etc assisting in the search and essentially wandering within a crime scene unsupervised and when I later heard the ex-boyfriend erased voicemails on TH's phone it really got my dander up.
I must say I'm shaken but not surprised by the actions of the Manitowoc Sheriff's office, the Calument DA, the original public defender for Dassey etc. It's like high school all over again. Someone doesn't like person or family x and woe unto them.
But that's neither here nor there in the end. Regardless of what one thinks about the guilt or innocence of Steven Avery or Brendan Dassey (and I'll admit I actually feel they're both innocent based on what I've read and watched thusfar), the main point this documentary drives home for me is that neither guy got a fair trial, and the evidence was so flimsy as to be ridiculous. Leads were not followed, questions about the "evidence" that WAS found by Manitowoc cops, NOT Calumet cops or the WI DOJ guys were not answered properly and I feel the WI DOJ and Calumet Sheriff's totally ****ed up by allowing Mantiwoc Sheriff deputies to wander around at times unsupervised (and given their history vs. Avery and his lawsuit at that time this is the definition of egregious).
Anyway, this is an incredibly interesting and incredibly daunting case...I can't help but think of Franz Kafka's The Trial and that opening line: "Someone must have been telling lies about Joseph K., for without having done anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning."
also how that book ends "As he looked round, he saw the top floor of the building next to the quarry. He saw how a light flickered on and the two halves of a window opened out, somebody, made weak and thin by the height and the distance, leant suddenly far out from it and stretched his arms out even further. Who was that? A friend? A good person? Somebody who was taking part? Somebody who wanted to help? Was he alone? Was it everyone? Would anyone help? Were there objections that had been forgotten? There must have been some. The logic cannot be refuted, but someone who wants to live will not resist it. Where was the judge he’d never seen? Where was the high court he had never reached? He raised both hands and spread out all his fingers.
But the hands of one of the gentleman were laid on K.’s throat, while the other pushed the knife deep into his heart and twisted it there, twice. As his eyesight failed, K. saw the two gentlemen cheek by cheek, close in front of his face, watching the result. “Like a dog!” he said, it was as if the shame of it should outlive him."
I apologize in advance if my post wanders a bit...I've had a few bottles of thinner tonight (still in celebration mode since Wisconsin won 2 consecutive games recently).
I recently watched the series and have held off on commenting online and bringing up with friends etc., until this week.
Prior to watching the show I guess you could say I had a vague resonance of this case somewhere in my brain but I had 0 knowledge of the first case (meaning the one Avery was eventually exonerated of). I'm guilty of tuning out the news generally on these types of cases as I find them much too depressing to consider for very long...but this series has changed that for me in a big way.
2 or 3 of the theories recently posted make sense but...what's the deal? Are there that many effing shady/creepy people visiting this lot or living in Manitowoc?
Anyway, initial reaction: I was dubious of the ex-boyfriend and his behavior (and TH's brother for that matter) when they showed him/them in episode 3 (iirc) and he/they were attempting to answer why they were on the lot etc assisting in the search and essentially wandering within a crime scene unsupervised and when I later heard the ex-boyfriend erased voicemails on TH's phone it really got my dander up.
I must say I'm shaken but not surprised by the actions of the Manitowoc Sheriff's office, the Calument DA, the original public defender for Dassey etc. It's like high school all over again. Someone doesn't like person or family x and woe unto them.
But that's neither here nor there in the end. Regardless of what one thinks about the guilt or innocence of Steven Avery or Brendan Dassey (and I'll admit I actually feel they're both innocent based on what I've read and watched thusfar), the main point this documentary drives home for me is that neither guy got a fair trial, and the evidence was so flimsy as to be ridiculous. Leads were not followed, questions about the "evidence" that WAS found by Manitowoc cops, NOT Calumet cops or the WI DOJ guys were not answered properly and I feel the WI DOJ and Calumet Sheriff's totally ****ed up by allowing Mantiwoc Sheriff deputies to wander around at times unsupervised (and given their history vs. Avery and his lawsuit at that time this is the definition of egregious).
Anyway, this is an incredibly interesting and incredibly daunting case...I can't help but think of Franz Kafka's The Trial and that opening line: "Someone must have been telling lies about Joseph K., for without having done anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning."
also how that book ends "As he looked round, he saw the top floor of the building next to the quarry. He saw how a light flickered on and the two halves of a window opened out, somebody, made weak and thin by the height and the distance, leant suddenly far out from it and stretched his arms out even further. Who was that? A friend? A good person? Somebody who was taking part? Somebody who wanted to help? Was he alone? Was it everyone? Would anyone help? Were there objections that had been forgotten? There must have been some. The logic cannot be refuted, but someone who wants to live will not resist it. Where was the judge he’d never seen? Where was the high court he had never reached? He raised both hands and spread out all his fingers.
But the hands of one of the gentleman were laid on K.’s throat, while the other pushed the knife deep into his heart and twisted it there, twice. As his eyesight failed, K. saw the two gentlemen cheek by cheek, close in front of his face, watching the result. “Like a dog!” he said, it was as if the shame of it should outlive him."
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html
A pretty thorough article on Avery's new lawyer and the case she is putting together, as well as a couple pieces of "new" evidence. Most interesting is that Halbach's cell records show that she left the property and the final ping was 12 miles away. The defense had that info the whole time and never used it.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html
A pretty thorough article on Avery's new lawyer and the case she is putting together, as well as a couple pieces of "new" evidence. Most interesting is that Halbach's cell records show that she left the property and the final ping was 12 miles away. The defense had that info the whole time and never used it.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
If true, that is a very significant piece of info. It completely blows up an already flawed prosecution theory.
If true, that is a very significant piece of info. It completely blows up an already flawed prosecution theory.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Why wouldn't they use it?
Why wouldn't they use it?
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
probably because it can't prove anything, other than someone took her phone somewhere, whether or not it was her...who knows?
probably because it can't prove anything, other than someone took her phone somewhere, whether or not it was her...who knows?
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Yeah, something isn't right here. I don't care what this new lawyer says, his two trial lawyers were not complete idiots. It's not like they would fail to recognize the significance of evidence placing her twelve miles away from Avery's home. We're not being told something here.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
It'd be interesting to see how close that info puts the phone to the quarry where the original defense claimed she was burned...
It'd be interesting to see how close that info puts the phone to the quarry where the original defense claimed she was burned...
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
It would be interesting to see how the location matches the testified movements of the uncle and cousin that were each others alibi.
It would be interesting to see how the location matches the testified movements of the uncle and cousin that were each others alibi.
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
I have a feeling we'll be finding out, Zellner doesn't strike me as someone who is seeking publicity or wasting her time on this unless she really believes there is something there to prove.
I have a feeling we'll be finding out, Zellner doesn't strike me as someone who is seeking publicity or wasting her time on this unless she really believes there is something there to prove.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
To be fair, they may have seen the evidence but not been able to use it to prove anything. It isnt like the judge was very open to them putting forth alternative theories
To be fair, they may have seen the evidence but not been able to use it to prove anything. It isnt like the judge was very open to them putting forth alternative theories
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Agreed. Her spokesperson said this case will be over in months...there really must be something to those phone calls and the perp behind them. I'd like to think it involves the ex-boyfriend as well. Deleting messages on a phone that was evidence in the case is at best tampering, at worst? Who knows? Any defense attorneys in this thread?
EDIT: the more I read about Kathleen Zellner the more of a bulldog she seems to be. Think Guiliani's prosecution of the mob as a reference point, only she seems sharper than he was. I wouldn't want to be Petersen, Lenk, or Fassbender right about now given that she seems to have them squarely in her sites...not to mention the sex perp...I mean how could that have been something the police would have ignored? I read somewhere that she intimated she's got information on the perpetrator and she's withholding evidence from the press to hopefully keep him from fleeing...could be smoke but for now I'm all in with her case
Agreed. Her spokesperson said this case will be over in months...there really must be something to those phone calls and the perp behind them. I'd like to think it involves the ex-boyfriend as well. Deleting messages on a phone that was evidence in the case is at best tampering, at worst? Who knows? Any defense attorneys in this thread?
EDIT: the more I read about Kathleen Zellner the more of a bulldog she seems to be. Think Guiliani's prosecution of the mob as a reference point, only she seems sharper than he was. I wouldn't want to be Petersen, Lenk, or Fassbender right about now given that she seems to have them squarely in her sites...not to mention the sex perp...I mean how could that have been something the police would have ignored? I read somewhere that she intimated she's got information on the perpetrator and she's withholding evidence from the press to hopefully keep him from fleeing...could be smoke but for now I'm all in with her case
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bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Big news today...
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2016/08/12/dassey-wins-ruling-teresa-halbach-murder/88632502/
Brendan Dassey's conviction has been thrown out by a federal judge.
Big news today...
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2016/08/12/dassey-wins-ruling-teresa-halbach-murder/88632502/
Brendan Dassey's conviction has been thrown out by a federal judge.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Good...leaving Avery out of it everything about his trial was a joke and a full on miscarriage of justice.
Good...leaving Avery out of it everything about his trial was a joke and a full on miscarriage of justice.
Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: Making a Murderer (spoilers expected) did Steven Avery do it?
Whether you believe Avery did it or not, the fact that they convicted both of them for murder under two completely different circumstances of killing was astonishing and disgusting and mind boggling and a whole bunch of other adjectives.
Whether you believe Avery did it or not, the fact that they convicted both of them for murder under two completely different circumstances of killing was astonishing and disgusting and mind boggling and a whole bunch of other adjectives.