Michaud is already an assistant and getting paid. It’s the new guy they brought in last summer who is the volunteer assistant.
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Maine Offseason 2020: We Stay Home But Swayman Leaves
- Thread starter AMC
- Start date
- Status
Michaud is already an assistant and getting paid. It’s the new guy they brought in last summer who is the volunteer assistant.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
This really doesn't belong in the Maine thread, but since I posted the coaches compensation here I thought I would post my update here as well. I received UMD's 2020 report and Coach Sandelin received a hefty salary increase and/or bonus for winning back-to-back national titles:
[TABLE="border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]2019[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]487,870[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]852,332[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]74.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
That was 29.4% of the total expenses for the team, 42.5% of the total compensation for all head coaches and 25% of the entire coaching compensation for 2020.
Also, Coach Sneddon got a nice little payout when he stepped down in 2020 as his compensation jumped 32% from 2019.
[TABLE="border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]2019[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]433,462[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]572,316[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I'm still waiting on 7 FOIA requests, but I've updated my spreadsheet with all the NCAA reports I have received and the 2019 EADA reports (the 2020 reports are no yet available online).
As for Coach Guite, based on Coach Vachon's compensation as interim head coach I would guess he will see a good increase, but probably no more than $200 total compensation. As for assistants, I would expect that if he hires one that would mean he is going to be the coach for the 2020-21 season (and the assistant will be paid).
Sean
[TABLE="border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]2019[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]487,870[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]852,332[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]74.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
That was 29.4% of the total expenses for the team, 42.5% of the total compensation for all head coaches and 25% of the entire coaching compensation for 2020.
Also, Coach Sneddon got a nice little payout when he stepped down in 2020 as his compensation jumped 32% from 2019.
[TABLE="border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]2019[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]433,462[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]572,316[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I'm still waiting on 7 FOIA requests, but I've updated my spreadsheet with all the NCAA reports I have received and the 2019 EADA reports (the 2020 reports are no yet available online).
As for Coach Guite, based on Coach Vachon's compensation as interim head coach I would guess he will see a good increase, but probably no more than $200 total compensation. As for assistants, I would expect that if he hires one that would mean he is going to be the coach for the 2020-21 season (and the assistant will be paid).
Sean
ticapnews
Never Forget!
LOL. No, and no.
AMC
Registered User
The above is from the BDN story on Guite's appointment. He won't be a long term interim. He will either get the job or he won't in the short term.
Verrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting that a national search wasn't being organized already, before Red's death. I think Red was going to be renewed.
Should have been more clear. Promote Michaud to Associate Head Coach and bring in someone at the assistant level. Perhaps promote the current volunteer. I didn't mean not pay the coach. My "no money" comment was in reference to the athletic department not having money enough to bring someone in above an entry level position.
Which makes me wonder how “committed” the AD and gang are to revitalizing the hockey program.
My sentiments exactly!! If Guite becomes long term head coach, who is going to be the recruiter?
I really don’t like having an interim coach for next season. Obviously administration is in a tough spot with this one, especially if there is no extra budget. For me the prudent thing to do would be to give Ben a four year contract and have a reasonable buyout in it in case things don’t work out.
I think if you leave the interim tag on very long current players and recruits might start to look elsewhere and I’m fairly confident it is the good ones you would lose. It makes it that much tougher to go after guys who aren’t part of the program as well. It’s intereting that Parker and Kleiboer are the only guys currently in the portal. I can’t blame either of them where they haven’t gotten much time and think it’s a really good reflection on Red, Ben, and Alfie.
There are a lot of things that need to be improved with the program but one that should happen immediately is that the AD needs to be a little more positive with the program. I wasn’t a big fan of his comments after the season and I hope at some point he walks some of those back. Everyone involved with the team had a trying time and I think they performed admirably even if the wins and losses weren’t where we wanted them to be. Maine needs to add more up front but overall the program isn’t in a horrible place and what he says should reflect that.
I think if you leave the interim tag on very long current players and recruits might start to look elsewhere and I’m fairly confident it is the good ones you would lose. It makes it that much tougher to go after guys who aren’t part of the program as well. It’s intereting that Parker and Kleiboer are the only guys currently in the portal. I can’t blame either of them where they haven’t gotten much time and think it’s a really good reflection on Red, Ben, and Alfie.
There are a lot of things that need to be improved with the program but one that should happen immediately is that the AD needs to be a little more positive with the program. I wasn’t a big fan of his comments after the season and I hope at some point he walks some of those back. Everyone involved with the team had a trying time and I think they performed admirably even if the wins and losses weren’t where we wanted them to be. Maine needs to add more up front but overall the program isn’t in a horrible place and what he says should reflect that.
Thanks Sean. Obviously, UMD wanted to keep him and it paid off. Going to the championship game again!
AMC
Registered User
As quoted below, they will not be doing a long term interim position. Either Guite will get the job permanently and coach next year or he won't and someone else will coach next year.
I immediately recoiled at your statement that "the program isn't in a horrible place" and set out to throw some math at that. And you know what? I actually agree with you. If we start at 1984-85, the year Maine hired Shawn and joined Hockey East, and figure out the winning percentage for each four year class recruited by Walsh/Whitehead/Gendron, you get the following:
1987-88: 81-81-6 (.500) (first year of all four classes recruited by Shawn)
1988-89: 100-66-5 (.599) EDIT: GRANT JOINS PROGRAM
1989-90: 122-49-6 (.706)
1990-91: 130-42-6 (.760)
1991-92: 114-51-6 (.684) *includes forfeits
1992-93: 125-38-8 (.754) *includes forfeits
1993-94: 110-56-7 (.656) *includes forfeits
1994-95: 98-53-11 (.639) *includes forfeits
1995-96: 106-42-13 (.699) *includes forfeits
1996-97: 87-54-12 (.608) *includes forfeits
1997-98: 98-40-15 (.690)
1998-99: 97-40-13 (690)
1999-00: 98-39-14 (.696)
2000-01: 95-41-20 (.673)
-------------------------------- Walsh/Whitehead line
2001-02: 104-37-23 (.704)
2002-03: 97-41-24 (.673)
2003-04: 103-41-22 (.687)
2004-05: 103-42-22 (.683) (four classes into Whitehead's tenure, not sure where to draw a recruiting line)
2005-06: 105-43-17 (.688) EDIT: GRANT RETIRES FROM FULL TIME COACHING AFTER SEASON
2006-07: 104-48-14 (.653)
2007-08: 84-58-14 (.583) EDIT: GRANT RETIRES FROM VOLUNTEER ASSISTANT ROLE
2008-09: 77-67-11 (.532)
2009-10: 68-72-12 (.487)
2010-11: 62-69-17 (.476)
2011-12: 72-65-17 (.523)
2012-13: 70-62-21 (.526)
------------------------------- Whitehead/Gendron line
2013-14: 67-60-22 (.523)
2014-15: 64-70-18 (.480)
2015-16: 49-80-21 (.397) (Whitehead recruited seniors/juniors)
2016-17: 49-82-17 (.389) (Whitehead's seniors)
2017-18: 51-83-17 (.394)
2018-19: 52-78-18 (.412)
2019-20: 62-65-17 (.490)
2020-21: 54-55-15 (.496)
The worst three years in Maine's modern-era hockey history did come on Red's watch. But they were when Whitehead's last recruiting class(es) should have been the leadership. Things ticked upwards once Red had all four classes.
So, anyways, good job by you, Red, wherever you are. Maine is in a better place now than when he took over.
Last edited:
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
If there's no money available for anyone else, then yup - Guite is the easy (cheap) choice.
And if it works out, then everything is A-OK, and Ben gets another contract. If not - you're right back where you are right now, maybe with an extra year of clarity, better funding, etc.
Kind of a no-brainer under the circumstances, unless they can get someone else better cheap ...
net presence
Active member
Sean, thanks for helping out. I asked as a friend of mine who has officiated at the DI level for many years had asked me to see what the differences were. Mainly because the officials (referees or linesmen) in almost all of the leagues have only experienced a $50-$75 dollar per game raise since 2010.
In the west, the men’s referee fees start at $400 per game in the now former WCHA, and go to $430 or so for those in the NCHC and BIG10. Not sure about the eastern officials. The women’s referees only make around $300.... Just so folks are aware, Div. I Women’s B-ball officials have a three-tiered payment system and the lowest tier from about 3 years ago was paying $850 per game per official plus per diems, mileage, and/or flights.
Apparently, the reason the men’s officials are given for the lack of increases by either league commissioners or ADs, is a lack of funding. So, when they see that coaches salaries have risen as much as they have the last 10 years, it gets pretty frustrating to be told there isn’t enough money to pay them a respectable fee. Especially in comparison to other sports. There is literally no other sport as challenging to officiate as hockey.
Whether you’re looking at the physical effort required, or the possibility of significant injury, or the far greater annual equipment costs, it makes no sense that women’s Div. I B-ball officials make double what they do. Yes, the economics of men’s b-ball and football are completely different universes compared to hockey. So, it’s understandable their pay structures might be vastly different. But, I would argue DI women’s b-ball isn’t. Same with DI baseball. Umpires in the BIG10 made $575 each for a three man crew, plus all of the per diem (I think it’s $220 per official — at least it is for the BIG10 hockey officials), along with mileage/flights. And that was three or four years ago.
The thing that most coaches, players, and fans complain about the absolute most is officiating. Well, if the leagues continue to undervalue them based on how little they pay them, it’s not surprising they may not be getting the best available people.
Ma#1ne Hky
New member
check out: collegehockeynews.com ---- article on Guite/Maine
My take home message from reading that article is that he already has the job permanently. He doesn't say that explicitly but the search for another coach is being conducted only to satisfy human resources. He did a nice job of promoting himself. The AD stated it would be a small group on the search committee. I would be surprised if anyone else was seriously considered.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
According to the NCAA financial reports it appears that the schools are responsible for paying the officials, but they category includes all event staff as well as other game day expenses required to play a game. I looked at the 19 schools I have financials for from both 2010 and 2020 and game day expenses increased about 45%:
[TABLE="width: 281"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl73, colspan: 4"]Game Day Expenses[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]Diff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Average[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]109,065[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]158,938[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]45.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Median[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]85,421[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]123,102[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]44.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]2,072,231[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]3,019,816[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]45.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So, officials pay should have increase about 45% to match the increase in all other game day expenses. For comparison those same 19 schools saw their coaching compensation increase about 66%:
[TABLE="width: 281"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl74, colspan: 4"]Head Coaches[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]Diff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Average[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]288,587[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]475,528[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]64.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Median[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]231,540[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]464,098[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]100.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]5,483,161[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]9,035,033[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]64.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl74, colspan: 4"]Assistant Coaches[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]Diff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Average[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]199,076[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]335,806[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]68.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Median[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]175,465[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]320,334[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]82.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]3,782,451[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]6,380,316[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]68.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl74, colspan: 4"]All Coaches[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]Diff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Average[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]487,664[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]811,334[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]66.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Median[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]408,826[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]788,417[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]92.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]9,265,612[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]15,415,349[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]66.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
And total expenses increased about 75%:
[TABLE="width: 281"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl74, colspan: 4"]Total Expenses[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72"]Diff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Average[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]1,805,154[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]3,163,327[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]75.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Median[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]1,586,286[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]2,807,766[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]77.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]34,297,917[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, align: right"]60,103,221[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, align: right"]75.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
You don't mention what the pay was in 2010, so I have no idea what the increase has been, for either them, or the other officials you mention. Since I had already entered all of Maine's NCAA financials into another spreadsheet I took a look at the increase for game day expenses for each one:
[TABLE="width: 192"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Baseball[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]9,851[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]-100.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Men's Basketball[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]37,885[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]91,451[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]141.4%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Women's Basketball[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]48,433[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]88,401[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]82.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Field Hockey[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]8,433[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]12,060[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]43.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Football[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]31,050[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]52,490[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]69.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Men's Hockey[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]10,824[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]15,769[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]45.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Women's Hockey[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]13,768[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]1,200[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]-91.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Women's Soccer[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]7,971[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]9,215[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]15.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Softball[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]4,302[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]600[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]-86.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Men's Swimming & Diving[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]800[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]400[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]-50.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Women's Swimming & Diving[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]800[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]970[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]21.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Men's Track, Field & X-Country[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]1,163[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]888[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]-23.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, colspan: 3"]Women's Track, Field & X-Country[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2009-10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]1,400[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]2019-20[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]1,113[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, align: right"]-20.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Men's and women's basketball both saw large increases, as did football, with field hockey on par with men's hockey, but women's hockey was cut to the bone, as was softball and baseball. Instead Maine increased the percentage of shared game day expenses from 36.2% in 2009-10 to 44.2% in 2019-20. That doesn't account for game officials who would only work one game, but I've found many such variations in the reports like this.
Sean
I read this thread daily, but have never posted here. First one. I am close with two people who are very involved with college hockey/Hockey East. FWIW, one said the kids "don't like Guite" (this was before he was elevated to interim), and the other said "it's going to be Ben Barr". Take it all with a grain of salt.
I don't doubt you heard either of those and I'm sure the players don't always like Ben. That is part and parcel of being a coach.
It's really strange Larry didn't have Barr as one of his candidates. Surely Larry would know who he is and I really don't know what to make of that. I think for Barr in a lot of ways Maine would be the absolute perfect situation. It's a name program that has struggled a lot in recent years but is going to get new facilities soon and you still have a very passionate fan base. Budget could be a little bit of an issue but I would assume its not insurmountable.
I read what Ben said yesterday on his call and I thought it was perfect. I strongly agree that Maine has a solid foundation and just needs to add a few more pieces to it. It was good of him to acknowledge the issue of too many penalties as well. There might have been a day where you could beat other teams into submission but I don't really think that works in the modern game. As I said yesterday I think the best way forward is to give him a four year contract with a reasonable buyout and if it doesn't work out in a couple years move on.
umhockey91
Well-known member
One way or another.....a Ben will be coaching Maine.
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