Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

[BoSox3066]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Reactionary would have been in the 1st year or even the 2nd, no one has said diddly squat until this year. I don't see that as reactionary.

Word for word. 3 seasons is enough to know what's going on. The only coach I can think of that was this bad for 3 years and ever made the NCAA's is Mark Denehy, and his third season was an uptick from the previous two not a crash and burn. And he's only made it once, is that what we want? If that's the ceiling for these guys what's the point? All the other new kid on the block coaches in this league have done something within 3 years.

Frankly Red hasn't been held to the same standard as Whitehead on this board. Fair is fair and if you're intellectually honest you have to say the same things about this regime as the last.

 

[all bear]

Word for word. 3 seasons is enough to know what's going on. The only coach I can think of that was this bad for 3 years and ever made the NCAA's is Mark Denehy, and his third season was an uptick from the previous two not a crash and burn. And he's only made it once, is that what we want? If that's the ceiling for these guys what's the point? All the other new kid on the block coaches in this league have done something within 3 years.

Frankly Red hasn't been held to the same standard as Whitehead on this board. Fair is fair and if you're intellectually honest you have to say the same things about this regime as the last.

So we're going to flip coaches every 2 to 3 years till we find the next Shawn Walsh ? Are you outta your freakin mind ?

 

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

So we're going to flip coaches every 2 to 3 years till we find the next Shawn Walsh ? Are you outta your freakin mind ?

While not a Maine fan, I've been keeping up with the thread this season, mostly from an entertainment standpoint, but also as a fan of a program that's somewhat similarly situated, although not quite as bad off in my humble opinion. Do you really think you can't get a sense of whether a coach is going to be successful after three full seasons at the helm? Do you really think this team is going to show marked improvement over the next two seasons? I don't. So I think you're just wasting your time when you could be using that time to bring someone else in to start the rebuilding process. Do I think Red's going to be fired? Heck no, especially after he's just been extended. But, as evidenced by the comments here, I think you'd find few who think he deserves to stay. Maine clearly doesn't have the cachet that it once did, so it's not going to find a blue-chip coaching prospect. But I do think it can and should find a young, hungry assistant who can be successful, and maybe come to love Maine and want to stay.

 

[ticapnews]

Let the AD know your feelings through a e-mail/letter or in person...don't hold back. I've been in touch with people on my tickets and told them that I was not happy about the prices AND the product on the ice...trust me that got there attention.

Make it a letter. I'm not sure Creech even knows he has an email account. I have yet to hear from anyone who has gotten a response to any email they have sent. The coaches are responsive, as are his underlings, but he seems to be in a pre-internet frame of mind.

 

[all bear]

While not a Maine fan, I've been keeping up with the thread this season, mostly from an entertainment standpoint, but also as a fan of a program that's somewhat similarly situated, although not quite as bad off in my humble opinion. Do you really think you can't get a sense of whether a coach is going to be successful after three full seasons at the helm? Do you really think this team is going to show marked improvement over the next two seasons? I don't. So I think you're just wasting your time when you could be using that time to bring someone else in to start the rebuilding process. Do I think Red's going to be fired? Heck no, especially after he's just been extended. But, as evidenced by the comments here, I think you'd find few who think he deserves to stay. Maine clearly doesn't have the cachet that it once did, so it's not going to find a blue-chip coaching prospect. But I do think it can and should find a young, hungry assistant who can be successful, and maybe come to love Maine and want to stay.

I'm just saying to think any reputable school or program is going to replace a coach every three years is absolutely ludicrous. How long after the word gets out that so and so school operates in this manner that qualified individuals would take a mulligan on the chance to coach at Maine? A schools got to have some sort of semblance of professionalism not knee jerk reactions.

Why hasn't UVMs coach been shown the door long ago? I mean what has he accomplished there ?

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

So we're going to flip coaches every 2 to 3 years till we find the next Shawn Walsh ? Are you outta your freakin mind ?

How about until we don't have the worst team in 30 years? Next Walsh? Just get me the next Sneddon and it'll be better than this.

They say it can't be done in 3 years. I point to every other successful program in this league, they were all done or had signs of life in 3 years.

Anybody that's worried about coaching here because they might get canned in "only" 3 years, I say hey don't get worse all 3 years and don't win 8 games in yr 3 and you won't have to worry about it. Simple as that.

 

[all bear]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

How about until we don't have the worst team in 30 years? Next Walsh? Just get me the next Sneddon and it'll be better than this.

They say it can't be done in 3 years. I point to every other successful program in this league, they were all done or had signs of life in 3 years.

Anybody that's worried about coaching here because they might get canned in "only" 3 years, I say hey don't get worse all 3 years and don't win 8 games in yr 3 and you won't have to worry about it. Simple as that.

My bad... so we're now happy with the next Sheldon out there ? And here I was thinking you all wanted NCAA participation. But you're not wanting to give the guy in charge enough leash to find out what he can do. Well in the next 18 years we could go through 6 coaches, maybe theres a diamond in the rough out there somewhere. Maybe we could get Grant out on the road again looking for diamond in the rough coaches instead of players because obviously the umo coach selection committee completely struck out. Phercrissakes, at least let this guys efforts play themselves out and if they don't work within the next two, then out on the road goes Grant.

 

[rufus]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

I do. Only third year and not a chance yet to get all his guys in place . Give him at least till year 5. Then open up both barrels if definitive and clear progress not seen. It's only fair

Sorry, but until you do, you gotta make do with what you have. Who's improved as a player since Red took over? A lot of guys regressed this season, Vesey, Swavely, Byron, maybe even Cam. The only forward you can say made great strides this season compared to last is Tegeler. Defense is not better, several of the goals from Friday's game were forwards skating right into the slot and no one picking them up, even 1 on 3, no one laid a hand on them.

And from last night's game, looks like if we're not gonna win, then we're gonna be a goon squad. Not liking that aspect of this team.

By this time, I wanted to see a team, if not very talented, at least doing the things right that you need to do to win games. Being solid defensively, knowing your reads and executing them, being where you need to be on the ice, covering your man. Now, you may not have the talent to not get beat by that man, but at least you're in the right spot, and executing the gameplan. As Walshy said, you can teach defense. Not really seeing that. Too many mental mistakes, too many breakdowns, too many unforced errors. I figured at least the team would know how and what to do, even if they couldn't execute it. Same offensively.

I hate to say it, but yeah, I think TIMMAY would have had better results with this team. Maybe Red's laying the groundwork, forgoing the short-term results in favor of building a long term structure for success. But sadly, I'm really not seeing that structure, either. Mistakes, penalties, loss of composure. Didn't think we'd be seeing those. But they're there.

Who thought a season that started with such promise would turn out as dismally as it has?

 

[all bear]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Sorry, but until you do, you gotta make do with what you have. Who's improved as a player since Red took over? A lot of guys regressed this season, Vesey, Swavely, Byron, maybe even Cam. The only forward you can say made great strides this season compared to last is Tegeler. Defense is not better, several of the goals from Friday's game were forwards skating right into the slot and no one picking them up, even 1 on 3, no one laid a hand on them.

And from last night's game, looks like if we're not gonna win, then we're gonna be a goon squad. Not liking that aspect of this team.

By this time, I wanted to see a team, if not very talented, at least doing the things right that you need to do to win games. Being solid defensively, knowing your reads and executing them, being where you need to be on the ice, covering your man. Now, you may not have the talent to not get beat by that man, but at least your in the right spot, and executing the gameplan. As Walshy said, you can teach defense. Not really seeing that. Too many mental mistakes, too many breakdowns, too many unforced errors. I figured at least the team would know how and what to do, even if they couldn't execute it. Same offensively.

I hate to say it, but yeah, I think TIMMAY would have had better results with this team. Maybe Red's laying the groundwork, forgoing the short-term results in favor of building a long term structure for success. But sadly, I'm really not seeing that structure, either. Mistakes, penalties, loss of composure. Didn't think we'd be seeing those. But they're there.

I'd disagree with many of your player assessments. I'd say Byrons better, Merchants better, Browns better and more effective... and don't give me simple number comparisons.... guys like Shore and Hutton not out there doesn't help your stats, the freshman are holding their own. Swavely never had much talent as far I can tell, maybe a good leader but not much in the way of skill. Fact of the matter is this team is lacking in top level talent. They can only do so much with a bare cupboard. And until they get an uptick in talent, wins will be few and far between and most importantly confidence stays in the dumps, leading to more losses, frustration and the goon hockey you refer to. Not at all uncommon. Look, I realize everyone is hoping for a quick fix ala Walsh, but it ain't gonna happen. You fix it by building from the ground up, increasing your skill level, finding a goalie who can really help and build winning confidence from the net on out. Lets see how these freshman defensemen are next year... especially after they get some scoring up front from some draft picks. This cupboard is very bare right now.... two all Americans leaving and others is a gut shot to the program.

 

[all bear]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Lets bring up a comparison here. UHN fans had high hopes of a national championship run this year. What in the hell have they been able to accomplish this year, other than drubbing Maine? I realize that usually is their NC in their eyes but they end the season 2 lousy points ahead of the bears while returning what they thought was some talent from last year. Admittedly we come into this season losing a lot of talent. How much more productive has the Umiliator been than Red? What about Sneddon? His team was swept by Maine this year, surely a sign of a bad coach if you let that happen, right? UConn, UMass... lets face it all the state schools sucked donkey dink this season.

What are the options? Rifle through potential replacement coaches every 3 years till we find the next Walsh, the next Bazin, the next Leaman? How many attempts will it take? How long until the good candidates just say F Maine, they're batchit crazy up there? Maybe that dork at NU would coach at Maine. The one who their fans absolutely wanted to castrate in the first half of this season. Y'all would be happier with that correct?

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Who thought a season that started with such promise would turn out as dismally as it has?

Coaches poll? I didn't think they would get home ice before season started, there were some thinking as high as 6 but they partake in the bong before breakfast.

Their biggest issue has been goaltending but the D kills any chance of winning even when the goalie plays ok.

 

[rufus]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

I was referring to the Icebreaker. Yeah, it was early, but just based on the way they played in those two games, I was expecting more from this year's team. Maybe not a top four finish, but certainly not 11th. Maybe 5th, 6th. Have a better record than last season. Be tougher to play against. Be a sound, solid hockey team, if not the most talented.

None of the above happened.

 

[rufus]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Coaches poll? I didn't think they would get home ice before season started, there were some thinking as high as 6 but they partake in the bong before breakfast.

Their biggest issue has been goaltending but the D kills any chance of winning even when the goalie plays ok.

True. And when they do manage to score some goals, the defense is non-existent, and they still lose.

 

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Why hasn't UVMs coach been shown the door long ago? I mean what has he accomplished there ?

Well a lot of us have been asking ourselves that same thing. That said, although Sneddon's no Shawn Walsh, I don't think you can make a strong case that he should have been fired or non-renewed. For example, he did get us to a Frozen Four not all that long ago. Although that was followed with some really bad seasons, just about the time his contract was expiring, the team came around and had a strong finish to the 2012-13 season. They followed that up with an NCAA tournament appearance the next season, and last season we made it to the Garden and narrowly missed a second straight NCAA tourney appearance. This season, obviously, has been a huge disappointment. While rabid fans like myself would love to see an NCAA championship, I think the guy's done enough to keep his job. Hopefully he can turn things around again. If not, believe me, I'll be calling for his head.

Regarding Maine, I just think it's painfully obvious Red's not the answer, and giving him anymore slack is just time wasted finding a real solution.

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Sneddon's third year at UVM he won 21 games and his third year in Hockey East the team was in the Frozen Four. So I mean using the three years thing.....

How long a leash do guys need to prove themselves? Challenge: Find a program that was this bad in year three and came back under the same coach. I doubt there are many, if any. You think Lowell regrets holding on to McDonald for 2 extra years before they got Bazin? Think PC regrets giving Army 6 years when they have what they have now and could've had it 2 years earlier?

My point is, if these guys aren't going to hack it, why wait two years to rip the band-aid off? All you're doing is letting the fan base rot and die for another 24 months for no reason.

Different sports, sure, but its hard to say anybody in the country's inherited a situation much worse than the one Richard Baron stepped into with women's basketball. Third year, 17 wins.

 

[all bear]

Sneddon's third year at UVM he won 21 games and his third year in Hockey East the team was in the Frozen Four. So I mean using the three years thing.....

How long a leash do guys need to prove themselves? Challenge: Find a program that was this bad in year three and came back under the same coach. I doubt there are many, if any. You think Lowell regrets holding on to McDonald for 2 extra years before they got Bazin? Think PC regrets giving Army 6 years when they have what they have now and could've had it 2 years earlier?

My point is, if these guys aren't going to hack it, why wait two years to rip the band-aid off? All you're doing is letting the fan base rot and die for another 24 months for no reason.

Different sports, sure, but its hard to say anybody in the country's inherited a situation much worse than the one Richard Baron stepped into with women's basketball. Third year, 17 wins.

Say what you will but I find it hard to believe 3 years is anywhere near long enough to evaluate a coach particularly when hockey is a four year program, you've lost your two best players and the goalies your stuck with haven't been stellar.. Just makes no sense at all. The question still remains, would you really be happy with a sneddon at the helm knowing full well that having a legitimate chance at a NC is the same as me winning powerball? Same question can be asked of Madigan. We all would love to see the next Walshy walk thru that door, but guess what, it ain't happening.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Sorry, but until you do, you gotta make do with what you have. Who's improved as a player since Red took over? A lot of guys regressed this season, Vesey, Swavely, Byron, maybe even Cam. The only forward you can say made great strides this season compared to last is Tegeler. Defense is not better, several of the goals from Friday's game were forwards skating right into the slot and no one picking them up, even 1 on 3, no one laid a hand on them.

And from last night's game, looks like if we're not gonna win, then we're gonna be a goon squad. Not liking that aspect of this team.

By this time, I wanted to see a team, if not very talented, at least doing the things right that you need to do to win games. Being solid defensively, knowing your reads and executing them, being where you need to be on the ice, covering your man. Now, you may not have the talent to not get beat by that man, but at least you're in the right spot, and executing the gameplan. As Walshy said, you can teach defense. Not really seeing that. Too many mental mistakes, too many breakdowns, too many unforced errors. I figured at least the team would know how and what to do, even if they couldn't execute it. Same offensively.

I hate to say it, but yeah, I think TIMMAY would have had better results with this team. Maybe Red's laying the groundwork, forgoing the short-term results in favor of building a long term structure for success. But sadly, I'm really not seeing that structure, either. Mistakes, penalties, loss of composure. Didn't think we'd be seeing those. But they're there.

Who thought a season that started with such promise would turn out as dismally as it has?

Post of the year. You hit the nail squarely on its head.

Last night, it appeared that the D were off the ice buying hot dogs while the NU forwards planted a flag in Maine's low slot and established a free-fire zone... I used to rag on Tim's D, but this is even worse. This team is not at all talented, but yes, positioning can be taught.

Been reluctant to mention Tegeler because I've seen only 15 games or so this year, but he's the one guy who seems to have stepped it up. Everyone else looks worse.

If you have a slow team, you need to coach it accordingly. Red isn't doing that. He's actually playing into his weaknesses half the time. I see so many bad pinches and blown assignments, as if Maine has the speed and hands to recover from such things... They don't.

Having vented a bit, I admit that none of that really matters. I do realize that. It was fun as can as be to see Maine as possibly the best college team ever in '93, and to attend many road games before and after, winning the great bulk of those contests and being hated as the " Evil Empire". I doubt I'll ever see such a thing again, but maybe once was enough.

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Three years is "not anywhere near long enough"?? How long is long enough? 6 years? 10? We're going to be having the exact some conversations about this for the next 2-5 years while this team and fanbase dies in the basement? I'm already sick of it. This program is a broken record and the song ain't worth listening to anyway.

I got news for the athletic dept and the patience crowd, no one's going to be sticking around for another year of this crap, never mind 2-5. It's not fun to follow this team anymore. People are DONE. Asking them to sit tight because we promise it might be better someday without changing anything is suicide. The fanbase is not going to do it.

 

[rufus]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

Say what you will but I find it hard to believe 3 years is anywhere near long enough to evaluate a coach particularly when hockey is a four year program, you've lost your two best players and the goalies your stuck with haven't been stellar.. Just makes no sense at all. The question still remains, would you really be happy with a sneddon at the helm knowing full well that having a legitimate chance at a NC is the same as me winning powerball? Same question can be asked of Madigan. We all would love to see the next Walshy walk thru that door, but guess what, it ain't happening.

Dunno. Red hasn't exactly shown himself to be head and shoulders above Sneddon at this point. Nor Madigan. That guy's team embarrassed Red's this weekend.

I said it earlier, anything less than a trip to the Garden next year, and I figure the writing's on the wall for Red. He'll have his players, he'll have three seasons of implementing his systems, his attitudes, his work ethics, and he'll have his three NHL draft picks. Next season is make or break time, or the AD should start scouring the hockey world for the guy that can get this program back on track.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Maine Black Bears - Return to the Glory Years or On to Oblivion?

GQ's 2nd year he was in the national title game.


...... just saying