LSSU Lakers 2018-19

[Laker Dude]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

It’s absolutely a gimmick but those gimmicks are exactly what are keeping casual fans interested in the game and keeping rinks alot more packed than they would be.

See, as a game I have no problem at all with ties. But college hockey is as much a form of entertainment now as it is a game, and the many casual fans out there crave the excitement of a win. You know me well enough to know I’m in the Taffy almost every day, but the many casual fans around the Sault choose a Laker game over usually 2 or 3 other events in town on any given weekend. 65 minutes ending in a tie wouldn’t give them a good reason to come back for another game.

That is exactly why the 2 non conference home games which could have ended in a tie were the best attended home games this season for the Lakers?

 

[lakersparty]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

Great win tonight. The officiating seemed suspect this weekend against LSSU, and I’m happy to get out of there with a split.

 

[lakersparty]

Bill Crawford extremely critical of the officiating tonight.

It was. The 5-3 against us last night was atrocious. Two penalties on one play, give me a break. The missed boarding tonight and no penalty for taking out our player who was about to score an empty netter...awful.

 

[CKrouth]

That is exactly why the 2 non conference home games which could have ended in a tie were the best attended home games this season for the Lakers?

1) It would seem that a non-conference series against Michigan is a bad example, given they haven’t been to SSM since the CCHA days and it was also GLSW, the biggest drawing series of the year for the past decade.
2) The WCHA uses a standard overtime format that includes 3v3 and a SO, so the issue only exists with non-conference right now. There is a reason why the NHL did it...college hockey shouldn’t go back.
3) I had this same conversation with Jim Roque when he was here. Next, your gonna tell me Chris Osgood doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Laker Dude]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

1) It would seem that a non-conference series against Michigan is a bad example, given they haven’t been to SSM since the CCHA days and it was also GLSW, the biggest drawing series of the year for the past decade.
2) The WCHA uses a standard overtime format that includes 3v3 and a SO, so the issue only exists with non-conference right now. There is a reason why the NHL did it...college hockey shouldn’t go back.
3) I had this same conversation with Jim Roque when he was here. Next, your gonna tell me Chris Osgood doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame.

So the casual fan cares a lot more about the opponent.

Create a better environment in your rink, such as Michigan Tech does. Actually win your home games rather than losing to teams like Alaska. That will be far more beneficial in solving your attendance problems.

The team has not played well enough at home this season to give the casual fan a reason to want to go back to another game.

 

[lakersparty]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

So the casual fan cares a lot more about the opponent.

Create a better environment in your rink, such as Michigan Tech does. Actually win your home games rather than losing to teams like Alaska. That will be far more beneficial in solving your attendance problems.

The team has not played well enough at home this season to give the casual fan a reason to want to go back to another game.

Attendance averaged 1,417 a game last season. It's at 2,070 this year, a pretty significant increase actually. That's a good step in the right direction and that 2,070 is only the 2nd time LSSU has averaged over 2,000 for attendance in a season since they've been in the WCHA. Sault Ste. Marie is fairly small and has an aging population. Older people tend to stay home with the weather there. LSSU's enrollment is less than 2,000 (looks to be 1,963 according to US News) so there's just not that much to work with in terms of finding new casual fans to come out. And the place with the potential to have more casual fans is probably Soo, Ontario with its larger population but the border complicates things so many Canadians who may have once came to games in greater numbers no longer do.

 

[CKrouth]

So the casual fan cares a lot more about the opponent.

Create a better environment in your rink, such as Michigan Tech does. Actually win your home games rather than losing to teams like Alaska. That will be far more beneficial in solving your attendance problems.

The team has not played well enough at home this season to give the casual fan a reason to want to go back to another game.

Yes there are a number of ways LSSU can work to increase attendance, but I was only talking about overtime rules. You can continue to think that 3v3 and shootouts don’t help retain casual fans, but this conversation is only going to get bigger and it will be discussed again at length this march. The old coaches are all leaving the game and the tide is changing...

 

[Deman]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

Yes there are a number of ways LSSU can work to increase attendance, but I was only talking about overtime rules. You can continue to think that 3v3 and shootouts don’t help retain casual fans, but this conversation is only going to get bigger and it will be discussed again at length this march. The old coaches are all leaving the game and the tide is changing...

While I'm a fan of the shootout, I wouldn't mind seeing it go away. Heck it would be even better if the game ended in a tie after either 1 or 2OT, and the two teams agree to a shootout for bragging rights, takes a lot of pressure off (or force a shootout if needed for something like the Cappo).

And I know a lot of longtime fans aren't fans of 3v3, but I find it really fascinating, that really showcases each player's skill.

But they really do need to make the rules less confusing when it comes to 'regular' games. I think having a shootout (normal, 3-1-1, etc), or some sort of continual sudden death OT in tournaments still make sense, where there can't be a tie.

As for being discussed in March, of course it will. The rules committee made a ruling on it this last year, but stepped it back since they didn't account for different variables in the game. They'll want to solidify it this offseason for sure.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

The season is fun watching the Lakers make a run for home ice and possibly having a shot at the NCAAs.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

While I'm a fan of the shootout, I wouldn't mind seeing it go away. Heck it would be even better if the game ended in a tie after either 1 or 2OT, and the two teams agree to a shootout for bragging rights, takes a lot of pressure off (or force a shootout if needed for something like the Cappo).

And I know a lot of longtime fans aren't fans of 3v3, but I find it really fascinating, that really showcases each player's skill.

But they really do need to make the rules less confusing when it comes to 'regular' games. I think having a shootout (normal, 3-1-1, etc), or some sort of continual sudden death OT in tournaments still make sense, where there can't be a tie.

As for being discussed in March, of course it will. The rules committee made a ruling on it this last year, but stepped it back since they didn't account for different variables in the game. They'll want to solidify it this offseason for sure.

There occasionally was 3 on 3 hockey in the "old" days and it was fairly exciting. It was simply the result of multiple minor penalties on each team at the same or close to the same time. With the changes in rules in more recent times, especially with regards to coincidental penalties, it's pretty rare to get to 3 on 3 hockey during the normal course of a game anymore. It requires multiple penalties, generally of a different variety or timing on each team, all in a pretty short period of time and generally not coincidental. I don't think it's a matter of long time fans not liking 3 on 3 hockey per se. It's using it as a gimmick to try and reach a conclusion to a game aside from a straight forward tie that is an issue.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

When games go to the 5 minute over times and then to the shootout , the game is just being dragged on and on and we need faster games and not extended ones .

 

[davyd83]

There occasionally was 3 on 3 hockey in the "old" days and it was fairly exciting. It was simply the result of multiple minor penalties on each team at the same or close to the same time. With the changes in rules in more recent times, especially with regards to coincidental penalties, it's pretty rare to get to 3 on 3 hockey during the normal course of a game anymore. It requires multiple penalties, generally of a different variety or timing on each team, all in a pretty short period of time and generally not coincidental. I don't think it's a matter of long time fans not liking 3 on 3 hockey per se. It's using it as a gimmick to try and reach a conclusion to a game aside from a straight forward tie that is an issue.

I see more 3x3 in one WCHA OT than I’ve seen total since I first put on skates back in 1971.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

The season is fun watching the Lakers make a run for home ice and possibly having a shot at the NCAAs.

Lakers just need to figure out how to win at home on Saturday nights. If they can, the chance we get home ice for the first round of the WCHA playoffs greatly improves.

 

[lakersparty]

Minnesota State fans sure seem to be whining a lot about leaving the WCHA after LSSU beat them. Is there a team that has benefitted more from the realignment than Mankato?

All of their DI conference tourney championships have come in the new WCHA, all of their DI regular season conference titles have come from the new WCHA, and 3 of their 5 NCAA tourney appearances have happened since the new WCHA started. If anything they should be thankful for this new arrangement.

https://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?135046-Minnesota-State-2018-19-Season-Thread/page9

 

[Deman]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

Minnesota State fans sure seem to be whining a lot about leaving the WCHA after LSSU beat them. Is there a team that has benefitted more from the realignment than Mankato?

They've been complaining since day 1. Hell, they applied to the NCHC last year but were denied.

But I think the worst kept secret in college hockey is that there has to be another realignment. It's been talked about since we were forced to after Penn State came up, at least the western conferences - I think the east is pretty well set. But I also doubt the NCHC, WCHA, et al are going to do anything major until they know for sure what the heck is going to happen with Arizona State.

That being said, in the Mankato thread that was linked, it mentioned that BG wanted out too. If the WCHA were to lose both Mankato and Bowling Green, I'd like to see us get Western Michigan and Miami, but with Western doing good this year, I doubt they'd want to leave the conference even if the fee was waived.

 

[Bale]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

They've been complaining since day 1. Hell, they applied to the NCHC last year but were denied.

But I think the worst kept secret in college hockey is that there has to be another realignment. It's been talked about since we were forced to after Penn State came up, at least the western conferences - I think the east is pretty well set. But I also doubt the NCHC, WCHA, et al are going to do anything major until they know for sure what the heck is going to happen with Arizona State.

That being said, in the Mankato thread that was linked, it mentioned that BG wanted out too. If the WCHA were to lose both Mankato and Bowling Green, I'd like to see us get Western Michigan and Miami, but with Western doing good this year, I doubt they'd want to leave the conference even if the fee was waived.

To give this some context, I'm going to post as a MSU fan. There is certainly a lot of bitterness on our part about the leagues. A large part of it is simply because it has been very hard to generate excitement around this team in large part because of the conference. It's not necessarily due to the other schools so much as it is the lack of familiarity. It's going to take a ton of time and effort to build up the same amount of connection as we had in the old WCHA. We lost our 5 biggest "rival schools" in the conference shift. We lost UMD, UND, St Cloud, MN, and UNO (I could even make an argument for WI as well). All of which we have a much larger natural connection to Mankato than any school in the conference (including Bemidji). I know and work with grads of each and every one of those schools which lends itself to having a bigger connection to the conference. I can't say the same of any school in the current conference. Additionally, I know this can't be measured, but the buzz in the arena is not near what it was a few years ago.

Yes, we have had a lot of success in the WCHA as it stands today. I think most Mankato fans truly believe that we would have had just as much in the NCHC (maybe not in terms of the volume of wins, but overall success). The realignment also coincides with our hiring of Mike Hastings. He was hired one year before the conferences shifted, meaning we had one year in the old conference under his tutelage. With virtually the exact same roster as the year before we went from 12 to 24 wins, so there is reason to believe we would be successful regardless.

All that being said, I sense the tide MAY be changing from the fans perspective. We are getting our old rivals to come in for non-conference games now. Granted, it's not the same as it being in the same conference as them, but we're playing them none the less. I was very impressed by the announced attendance this last weekend. It was over 8,000 for you guys. That's not something we would have been able to reach a few years ago. I think the level of competitiveness in the WCHA is also getting better. If that keeps happening, maybe the fan sentiment will start changing.
the
Point being, there are logical reasons that there is that sentiment. Some conferences are just better fits for given schools. Up until this point, the NCHC has been a better fit in many people's minds.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

It is all about money. How do the schools get the best bang for their buck . I am sure down the road the travel distance and what it cost will start to hurt the making money part of the game.

 

[Deman]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

...Point being, there are logical reasons that there is that sentiment. Some conferences are just better fits for given schools. Up until this point, the NCHC has been a better fit in many people's minds.

Imagine us. Our small school used to play Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State & Notre Dame twice a year, and save for Michigan, one series here in the Sault. Huge regional schools that could attract some good crowds. In 2011, for example, the Saturday Michigan State game brought in 3,451 fans, according to the game summary here on USCHO. I think the only times we've gotten close to that number since the realignment has been on our Great Lake State Weekend series, when we've brought back either Michigan or State. Now, year over year, attendance has been on the rise.

There certainly some new familiarity being formed here with the current alignment. The first time we played you guys, I had to look up where Mankato even was, same with Bemidji. I knew nothing of your schools. But with every ***-whooping we'd get, the more interesting it got, since now, personally, if we can steal a game or two from you a year, I consider the season a success.

But I do think the league is a lot better than some of the others give us credit for. But if MSU leaves for the NCHC, and BG ends up leaving for 'greener' pastures, I worry about what'll happen to the schools in the current WCHA, especially since the Alaska schools are struggling to get Wins, so I worry about how long their Board of Governors will be able to keep both programs funded, and convince players to move all the way up there & take long road trips. That's assuming the NCHC doesn't want to keep the number of teams low, thus allows either a free out for teams, or a discounted cost.

 

[Bale]

Re: LSSU Lakers 2018-19

Imagine us. Our small school used to play Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State & Notre Dame twice a year, and save for Michigan, one series here in the Sault. Huge regional schools that could attract some good crowds. In 2011, for example, the Saturday Michigan State game brought in 3,451 fans, according to the game summary here on USCHO. I think the only times we've gotten close to that number since the realignment has been on our Great Lake State Weekend series, when we've brought back either Michigan or State. Now, year over year, attendance has been on the rise.

There certainly some new familiarity being formed here with the current alignment. The first time we played you guys, I had to look up where Mankato even was, same with Bemidji. I knew nothing of your schools. But with every ***-whooping we'd get, the more interesting it got, since now, personally, if we can steal a game or two from you a year, I consider the season a success.

But I do think the league is a lot better than some of the others give us credit for. But if MSU leaves for the NCHC, and BG ends up leaving for 'greener' pastures, I worry about what'll happen to the schools in the current WCHA, especially since the Alaska schools are struggling to get Wins, so I worry about how long their Board of Governors will be able to keep both programs funded, and convince players to move all the way up there & take long road trips. That's assuming the NCHC doesn't want to keep the number of teams low, thus allows either a free out for teams, or a discounted cost.

Yeah, I think all the teams in the league are in a tough spot. There is a reality in college sports that I think we all have fought and that is that money plays a huge role in the success of schools. I don't agree with the thinking of the NCHC schools when they broke off, but I do understand it. It's not only difficult when for the schools that have a lower budget on whether they can survive or not, it's also difficult on their conference mates. The uncertainty that the Alaska schools went through last year was not good for anyone and, if anything, lent credence to the complaint that the league is unstable. And that perception isn't going to go away easily.

From a competitive standpoint, the league is getting better. MSU, Tech, NMU and BG seem to be the stalwarts. It seems like LSSU is also making some strides to get to that point. I'm certain that Ferris will be back at some point. And Bemidji is going to jump up every couple of years. The only thing that is going to start changing the perception of the league, both in fans' and recruits' eyes though, is to improve that out of conference record. We were off to a good start this year and then fell off. Perceptions mean a lot. It means a lot to fans and players. If the teams can keep improving and winning it will bring more fans and recruits, it will do wonders to the budgets.

I really hope that, if MSU doesn't win the conference tourney, that it's not BG either (and I'm sure they're thinking the same about us). I think MSU and BG are likely going to finish well enough that they could both get autobids. Having a 3rd team in the NCAAs would be fantastic for the league as a whole. I really do think it would do wonders in starting to turn some of the perception of the league in a better direction.

 

[Bill]

Any reason why Laker Hockey Talk podcasts have not been posted since November 1? That is quite disappointing. Hopefully this week's Laker Hockey Show will be posted eventually.

Internet stream of this evening's Laker Hockey Show wasn't working. Hope they get the podcast up soon. It looks like they caught up with podcasts for both Laker Hockey Talk and the Laker Hockey Show (other than this evening).