LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

There is a very good chance that Bowling Green will pull ahead of Lake State this coming weekend and a possibility that MI may as well jump in front of Lake State. The problem with the Lakers is simply not enough talent . If you think they have enough talent than the problem is simply coaching and there are the two reasons to pick from why Lake State is always at the bottom end of league play. Next seasons weaker league isn't going to make this team play any better . It will just allow them a better shot at not being tied to the bottom teir and I have doubts if that will even help.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lakers2glory. What bothered me most about the Friday night game was the look of what's the use on some of the Lakers faces as they came to the bench after not scoring on plays that they should have buried the puck with.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

That's a good point Bill, the Lakers are 16-35-6 (including this season's games) under Jim Roque in the month of February.

Ouch! March I'm assuming is pretty brutal as well. At least under Roque the Lakers play about .500 hockey from October-January. The Lakers need to address these poor finishes.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I am always trying to be optimistic about my Lakers. The last four games have been pretty tough. It seemed like the team just can't find a consistent high level of play. After sweeping Union I thought that perhaps a corner was turned. But they have given away too many home points, and have been utterly unwatchable (or unlistenable, if the radio is your primary source of game-day feed) on the road.

As an optimist, I have to believe that cold teams can get hot, just as hot teams get cold. There are still a lot of point left for the winning. Lots of season left. 6 regular season games,and then the first round of the playoffs. The goalies won some games early, and have lost some game lately. Plenty of time to wake up.

Plenty of time to start putting some pucks in the net.

I know -- I know -- I know. I could cut and paste this post to each of the last four years.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

On the Laker Hockey Show, Roque said the kid from Alberta that visited a couple of weeks ago called yesterday and verbally committed. So it appears we have more forward recruits coming in next season than we have Senior forwards who are using up their eligibility. Maybe someone(s) in addition to Lain isn't coming back?

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Interesting insight from last nights Laker Show. Apparently the entire Ciotti line is hurt (including a broken foot for Buddy Robinson).

Robinson got hurt in the Friday game, but gutted it out and played Saturday anyway. The week off should help him (and Ciotti as well).

 

[FRICKER]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lakers2Glory..............interesting comment about players losing their scoring touch once they come to Lake State. That's exactly like it was when my son played there (1997-2001). They had several players
who tore it up in Juniors and couldn't find the end of the rink at Lake State. We blamed it on Borek attempting to play Jeff Jackson system with the wrong type of players. Any time a player has a death grip
on his stick and is playing all tensed up, they'll never score (same as white knuckling it with a golf club). A gifted scorer should be incouraged to play their own game and play relaxed. As long as they don't neglect the defensive end of the ice, let 'em do their own thing offensively.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I have been saying all along that Roque brings in players with a scoring touch in the Juniors and at Lake State,they struggle to score 20 goals in four years. Fricker,for once you and I agree. Roque has to turn his players loose in the offensive zone and just let them play.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

The game has changed a lot since the Jeff Jackson/Scott Borek years at LSSU. Scoring overall, for all Div 1 schools, is way down from what it used to be. Goaltending and defense is better than it was in the past. So it's not a matter of players not being able to score at just LSSU. That said, we should be getting better scoring than we are. Our talent level has been slowly but steadily increasing. I don't know what the ultimate issue is that's causing the problem, but I agree with FRICKER that as long as the guys take their defensive play seriously, they should be given more freedom to play their own game offensively. I'm not so sure that is happening.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Is this is coaching issue? I know that Tech has a newer, more offensive-friendly approach under Coach Mel . . . but I can't say the results in the W-L section have shown an appreciable difference. They did win their GLI for the first time since the early 80's, and Tech is certainly a more entertaining product on the ice for the fans than it was under the old trap-and-hold regimes. Can playing wide-open hockey make a difference at the college level?

I tend to prefer wide-open hockey. Thats my personal prefence for hockey viewing. Sometimes "Systems" and "game plans" get in the way of allowing players to skate and create. I was impressed with our team earlier in the year because they appeard, on many nights, to be able to wheel into the offensive attack much more easily than in previous years. Not that it often resulted in scoring plays. But it was more enjoyable to watch.

I don't know.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I also think the Lakers have been too slow to adapt to another aspect of the changing college game in recent years. That is, physical play with big strong guys isn't nearly as important any more. In fact, the way the game is being refereed, you can't play that way and get away with it in today's game. It seems like just about any big hit is now being called a penalty. Skating ability is much more at a premium today than physical size. I think the Lakers have put too much emphasis on the size of the kids they have been recruiting for many years. They've tended to ignore kids that were very good Junior scorers but weren't very big. It's true that they have begun to shift away from that approach the past few years, but they've been slow to do so. And although it was encouraging to hear Roque say this past year that Laker recruiting was going to have to place more of an emphasis on skating now that several (4?) of the rinks in the nWCHA have Olympic size ice sheets, I don't think it shouldn't have taken that fact to cause a change to their recruiting philosophy. It's something that should have been occurring anyway.

Now I have nothing against recruiting big players if they are good skaters; in fact it's great if you can recruit big fast skaters, but I think the Lakers have tended to ignore too many little guys who are great skaters, in the recruiting process. And of course if you do recruit smaller guys that can really skate and are good play makers, it's still vitally important that those guys work hard on their strength training so they can also play tenacious along the boards and don't get pushed around too easily.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Alex Globke was player of the month for January for the CCHL:

http://centraljuniorhockeyleague.ca/view/CCHL/news/news_65725

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Is this is coaching issue? I know that Tech has a newer, more offensive-friendly approach under Coach Mel . . . but I can't say the results in the W-L section have shown an appreciable difference. They did win their GLI for the first time since the early 80's, and Tech is certainly a more entertaining product on the ice for the fans than it was under the old trap-and-hold regimes. Can playing wide-open hockey make a difference at the college level?

Well, Tech is not quite two years removed from only winning four games. This year we lost a great captain to graduation, had a large freshman class, and all three of our goalies struggled with consistency, with a freshman having recently emerged. I don't think Mel's job performance can be properly critiqued until his fourth or fifth year. Until this season, no one had delivered Tech a GLI title since John MacInnes, so that's a bigger monkey off our back than you might think.

I have to say though, this sudden LSSU spiral is surprising.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Tell the offense to do what they have to to score and just let them play and turn them loose. To many players come in with good to great numbers in the juniors and die on offense once they play for Lake State. Whatever system or game plan Roque has for the offense , it isn't working.

 

[jnacc]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I also think the Lakers have been too slow to adapt to another aspect of the changing college game in recent years. That is, physical play with big strong guys isn't nearly as important any more. In fact, the way the game is being refereed, you can't play that way and get away with it in today's game. It seems like just about any big hit is now being called a penalty.
.

The biggest change in college hockey over the past decade (other than the much tighter calls by the officials) is the adoption of "systems hockey", whereby each player has a specific role to fill in relation to where the play/puck is at. This has caused a dramatic drop in offensive creativity and scoring. Ironically, as far as I can tell, the Lakers play a fairly simple up down style of game and do not employ any where near the types of systems as many other programs. In fact I think it was Bill Crawford who mentioned that many pro scouts and NHL teams are taking a very dim view of the style of hockey Jeff Jackson is using at Notre Dame in relation to development but I'm sure that to Jackson, wins are far more important than what NHL managers might be thinking.

Recruiting is better but it no where near where it needs to be. We still rely, far to much for my liking, on players out of the various Ontario Junior hockey leagues. These 20 year old players might look great playing against 17 and 18 year olds in what really is nothing more than a glorified Junior B league but they look more than average when they make the jump to the D-1 ranks. The only recruits I would really get excited about are the young 17 and 18 year olds out of the USHL, BCHL and even the NAHL and AJHL, who are averaging close to a PPG or are on the top 2 lines/top D pairings. How many of those recruits has the program had over the past 15 years.

Yes you can find decent 20 year old players out of Ontario or the NAHL who will in time become decent/average D-1 players but don't expect them to light the lamp or challenge for scoring title....until the program can begin to recruit young talent, don't ever expect a mid range scoring team let alone an offensive juggernaut.

As for the coaching, I'll reserve my opinion (not that it matters) until the end of the season but I'll always support Laker Hockey, unlike some (or one at least) disgruntled parent on this board.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

The biggest change in college hockey over the past decade (other than the much tighter calls by the officials) is the adoption of "systems hockey", whereby each player has a specific role to fill in relation to where the play/puck is at. This has caused a dramatic drop in offensive creativity and scoring. Ironically, as far as I can tell, the Lakers play a fairly simple up down style of game and do not employ any where near the types of systems as many other programs. In fact I think it was Bill Crawford who mentioned that many pro scouts and NHL teams are taking a very dim view of the style of hockey Jeff Jackson is using at Notre Dame in relation to development but I'm sure that to Jackson, wins are far more important than what NHL managers might be thinking.

Recruiting is better but it no where near where it needs to be. We still rely, far to much for my liking, on players out of the various Ontario Junior hockey leagues. These 20 year old players might look great playing against 17 and 18 year olds in what really is nothing more than a glorified Junior B league but they look more than average when they make the jump to the D-1 ranks. The only recruits I would really get excited about are the young 17 and 18 year olds out of the USHL, BCHL and even the NAHL and AJHL, who are averaging close to a PPG or are on the top 2 lines/top D pairings. How many of those recruits has the program had over the past 15 years.

Yes you can find decent 20 year old players out of Ontario or the NAHL who will in time become decent/average D-1 players but don't expect them to light the lamp or challenge for scoring title....until the program can begin to recruit young talent, don't ever expect a mid range scoring team let alone an offensive juggernaut.

As for the coaching, I'll reserve my opinion (not that it matters) until the end of the season but I'll always support Laker Hockey, unlike some (or one at least) disgruntled parent on this board.

Pretty much agree. The Lakers seem to make little effort to recruit kids under 19. They make look at them younger and keep them on their radar (if they don't commit somewhere else in the meantime), but that has yet to turn into any concrete results in terms of getting any commitments from kids in that age group. I wonder how many offers they are making to kids under 19? Any? Tyler Marble is a bit of an aberration to that, but didn't he commit early largely due to his dad being friends with Roque? I don't know if Roque doesn't feel we can compete with other schools in recruiting the younger guys or if he feels it is too much of a gamble (as in maybe they won't pan out at Div 1 level so why take the risk). In the mean time, most of the promising 17 and 18 year old kids are getting snapped up by the other Div 1 programs (and not just be the big schools). And we seem to concentrate on late bloomers. I realize we have a pretty meager budget compared to other Div 1 programs, but it seems like we're not making enough of an effort at competing for the younger recruits. I have no problem with bringing in 20 (and 19) year old recruits; some guys are late bloomers or may be overlooked due to injury or late physical development (strength and/or size). But I too wish we could be more competitive in getting commitments from some promising 17 and 18 year olds while they are still developing in Juniors. Hopefully the additional money coming into the program will help with that.

I'm probably not as down on the OJHL as you. To their credit, they have been trying to strengthen the league by eliminating and consolidating teams over the past few years. It had become much too watered down of a league. The OJHL and NAHL seem to be our prime recruiting ground at this time. I think most of us would like to see inroads into the BCHL, USHL and AJHL.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I would also like to see a move toward players with good high-end speed. Of course, so do all the oher D-I schools. I can't imagine we on-line hacks have spotted something the hockey coaching establishment has missed. Not likely -- but then again . . .

I believe the Lakers are grabbing the older players because the developent time is chopped down. Perhaps there are better 17-18 year old kids out there (and there are). BUt maybe, at 17-18, they are a year or two from being fully up to speed. With the LSSU players, they are generally full-grown when they hit campus. A year of D-I weights fills them out a bit more, but there isn't a long sharp learning curve. Also, older players from the junior ranks are often captains and asst. captains on JR teams -- and these leadership roles follow the players into their freshman years. So if you can't get the high end talent, you get the hardest working collection of kids you can find. That has, in some ways, always been a relative bead-rock of LSSU hockey

And I have never been sold on the thought process which says "a scorer in juniors should be a scorer in the NCAA." The converse is almost always true, though -- if you can't score in Juniors, you are not going to score in the NCAA. The "next step up" is often pretty steep for many, many kids.

So what does LSSU have? Well, to be honest there is a very good collection of higher-end talent on the top lines this year than at any time in the past few years. I think there are some nagging injury bugs rolling through the team. I think they have had a few (obviously) defections of a few top-line guys. I think Murdock has come back to earth a little, and I don' know that KK has really ever looked as good as he did early in 2011. I think the Coach was hoping one of the keepers would take the lead, and instead both have stumbled lately. I think the break will heal some bruises and bumps. And I still think this collection of boys can mke some late season noise -- as any collection of veteran players with veteran goalies are able to do.

I mentioned Tech earlier because I think that Coach Mel has the right idea: You can't just grab big, older junior players and expect to push around D-I players anymore. If you have a smaller budget, you need to go for speed, and play an aggressive forecheck. That doesn't mean geting sloppy -- and I think Tech's problems this year have stemmed heavily from injuries and horrible goalkeeping. Bu look at the Tech game plan -- always attacking. The forecheck starts at centre ice -- which is where the (gag . . . ) better Michigan teams attacked. (Note -- under Pearson). From what I've watched this year, Tech is learning to keep its forwards circling back and attacking at centre ice and trying to keep the puck deep in the offensive zone. They are lacking a few big-time players to finish the deal on many nights -- but as noted Mel is only into his 1.5 years of building. But they use the speed at centre ice as part of the team defense.

Speed is nice on offense, but in the modern NCAA you MUST have speed to play defense. As noted, big crunching hits too often get called. And frankly, lets be honest -- a big hit from time to time is unlikely to deter a modernNCAA hockey player. These guys are in great shape, they are all darn tough, and there really arn't too many cowards or soft players anymore. At least not to such a point that one big hit will slow them up. Those days are also done. Speed closes passing lanes, makes poke checks, back-checks, gets into position quicker, and recovers when a player is caught out of position. Speed, not size, is required to win in the NCAA.

LSSU can do that, too. Smaller (perhaps). Faster -- needed. Speed over size would be my game plan. Yes, you need some size to keep the flies off. But you need speed.

Now, as I said earlier -- easier said than done.

With the top ranked players picked over and committing bfore they even turn 16 nowadays, a program like LSSU has to alter its vision. Everybody wants size and speed. North Dakota and BC and Wisconsin will always get a whle lot of players with both size and speed. So in order to get speed to come to LSSU, you have to find players who are overlooked. Who gets overlooked? Small guys. I see Tech going in that direction. I also see UAF (er, um, Alaska) going in that direction. Western, too. Smaller, but faster. If they can do it, so can LSSU.

My two cents

 

[DB Cooper]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

i've noticed over the years that when Coach Roque discusses recruiting, he is often very specific in trying to find a player very similar to the one leaving the program. He will reference the leaving player in describing the new player. It's almost as if he has a certain mix of player types he wants, and as one player leaves, he replaces him with a player with the same attributes.

This season is certainly demonstrative of chronic deficiencies in the program - second half fades, and players not only failing to get better during their Laker careers, but actually getting worse. The Lakers don't improve as a team throughout the season, and get passed by teams that do. Laker players are well served by jumping to the pros as soon as there is interest, because the trend, in general, with Schofield being a somewhat rare exception, is for player performance to fall with advancing experience. I am a supporter of the staff, but this is clearly their fault. Recruiting is important. Player development is more important.

 

[AnchorsAway]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

i've noticed over the years that when Coach Roque discusses recruiting, he is often very specific in trying to find a player very similar to the one leaving the program. He will reference the leaving player in describing the new player. It's almost as if he has a certain mix of player types he wants, and as one player leaves, he replaces him with a player with the same attributes.

This season is certainly demonstrative of chronic deficiencies in the program - second half fades, and players not only failing to get better during their Laker careers, but actually getting worse. The Lakers don't improve as a team throughout the season, and get passed by teams that do. Laker players are well served by jumping to the pros as soon as there is interest, because the trend, in general, with Schofield being a somewhat rare exception, is for player performance to fall with advancing experience. I am a supporter of the staff, but this is clearly their fault. Recruiting is important. Player development is more important.

Couldn't agree more, the staff seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to recruiting, as you said, certain "types" of players.

 

[SmartAxe]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Recruiting is better but it no where near where it needs to be. We still rely, far to much for my liking, on players out of the various Ontario Junior hockey leagues. These 20 year old players might look great playing against 17 and 18 year olds in what really is nothing more than a glorified Junior B league but they look more than average when they make the jump to the D-1 ranks. The only recruits I would really get excited about are the young 17 and 18 year olds out of the USHL, BCHL and even the NAHL and AJHL, who are averaging close to a PPG or are on the top 2 lines/top D pairings. How many of those recruits has the program had over the past 15 years.

Yes you can find decent 20 year old players out of Ontario or the NAHL who will in time become decent/average D-1 players but don't expect them to light the lamp or challenge for scoring title....until the program can begin to recruit young talent, don't ever expect a mid range scoring team let alone an offensive juggernaut..

Nail.. head.. you just hit, it in my opinion...

Also a fair comment about recruits from DB Cooper, in that the staff wants to fill a role with another "type" role guy. -Though it could be the staff is just drawing comparison to a player folks are already familiar with in order to best describe a new guy coming in. Could be a couple different ways to take their comments, I guess. (But my thought is you don't pass up recruiting a top goal scorer because you want a role player guy to kill penalties & skate circles but has little offensive upside).


Can't agree with Bill overall, on his "players size being a problem" theory though. We should put the blame where it's due and that it's the CCHA has changed the way they want the game called to where practically any contact is a penalty. The CCHA is the only place where these ridiculous, ticky-tac, contact penalties are the norm. Hockey is still a contact sport, players will play as such and the game should be called as such. The league isn't doing it's players any justice by having officials call games the way they are.

And lets be honest, CCHA officials are out there trying to "manage" a game, not call what they see on the ice. A team can draw 2-3 straight penalties and continue to take liberties on opponents while the refs let it go, because in their mind they have to call the next penalty on the other team.. They want to even up the penalty calls & don't want the stat to seem too lopsided in a post game box score.

Now, the big guys the Lakers have can all skate, you can't take that away from them. Good hands, good skating & footwork on a guy 6-4 with some physical prowess where he can hold his own. That is a plus for any player in the game of hockey, anywhere. To say, having all those attributes in one player is a negative thing, is puzzling to me. I'm sure NHL scouts just hate the thought of guys 6-5 that can skate, hit & score trying to break into the leage.. Why would anyone want those guys on a team?

It will be interesting to see what happens next year when the CCHA is dead & gone and these teams play in a new league with different officiating. Hopefully the days of calling penalties just because one guy is 7 inches taller and 30 pounds stronger than the other, will be overwith.