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Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Understandable, yet regrettable that the Boy Scouts crumble under the extreme pressure they were put under. But such is what America has become. I'm sure they'll cave the rest of the way soon, as those pushing these agendas brook no disagreement with their views.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Understandable, yet regrettable that the Boy Scouts crumble under the extreme pressure they were put under. But such is what America has become. I'm sure they'll cave the rest of the way soon, as those pushing these agendas brook no disagreement with their views.
Regrettable? Why is this regrettable?
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Regrettable? Why is this regrettable?
If I have to explain it to you, you won't understand. Plus, I know from past conversations you know exactly what I mean. You're just trying to pick a fight. No thanks. Been there, done that around here. No point to doing it over again.

I expect to see the Scouts decline from here on out. Just like the mainline denominational churches that went PC and endorsed the trendy social agendas of the day and they've been in decline every since. In the Scouts case, the math is even more compelling. 70 percent of Scout troops are sponsored by churches, with large chunks sponsored by folks like the Southern Baptists, Catholics, and Mormons. But, as is always the case in this sort of push of an agenda, the kids are the ones that will lose out.
 
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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I expect to see the Scouts decline from here on out. Just like the mainline denominational churches that went PC and endorsed the trendy social agendas of the day and they've been in decline every since.

Yeah, just like the military declined when they kept pace with societal changes.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

If I have to explain it to you, you won't understand. Plus, I know from past conversations you know exactly what I mean. You're just trying to pick a fight. No thanks. Been there, done that around here. No point to doing it over again.

I expect to see the Scouts decline from here on out. Just like the mainline denominational churches that went PC and endorsed the trendy social agendas of the day and they've been in decline every since. In the Scouts case, the math is even more compelling. 70 percent of Scout troops are sponsored by churches, with large chunks sponsored by folks like the Southern Baptists, Catholics, and Mormons. But, as is always the case in this sort of push of an agenda, the kids are the ones that will lose out.

That's odd. I see the kids in our town gaining a lot from this movement. Intangible things that I wish were around when I was in school.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I get that, but the logic completely defies me. If you are letting these kids progress through the ranks the organization says they have learned the right stuff to move up. Do you unlearn that? Does the organization, which prides itself on building character, think they are doing a poor job training them?
I assume this half-measure will be extremely short-lived. There were plenty of measures that didn't go far enough during the early parts of the civil rights movement, too. According to the NPR piece I heard on it yesterday, both sides were surprised by the landslide (61-39). Now that people see where the Scouts' leadership really stands on the issue, I expect progress toward full acceptance for homosexuals to increase. I give it 5 years, absolute maximum.

I expect to see the Scouts decline from here on out. Just like the mainline denominational churches that went PC and endorsed the trendy social agendas of the day and they've been in decline every since. In the Scouts case, the math is even more compelling. 70 percent of Scout troops are sponsored by churches, with large chunks sponsored by folks like the Southern Baptists, Catholics, and Mormons. But, as is always the case in this sort of push of an agenda, the kids are the ones that will lose out.
I disagree. "Sponsored" by churches in most cases means that the church lets them use a room for troop meetings that was going to be otherwise unoccupied anyway. Big deal. Sure, there will probably be some troops that meet at hardcore hate churches who will have to find a new meeting place, but that's hardly the death knell of scouting.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

That's odd. I see the kids in our town gaining a lot from this movement. Intangible things that I wish were around when I was in school.

Like anything, it depends on where you live. A lot of people talk about how Gen Y isn't getting cars, but I only see that as the case in urban areas, while in rural areas, you can't do anything without a car. Boy Scouts certainly teach invaluable things. Some see use, while others don't.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Well I am sure that if the Scouts allowed gays to be leaders then that would lead down a slipper slope where all of a sudden dogs and turtles would end up running troops as well!

Think of the children!! Just say no to Den-Turtles!

:D
 
I assume this half-measure will be extremely short-lived. There were plenty of measures that didn't go far enough during the early parts of the civil rights movement, too. According to the NPR piece I heard on it yesterday, both sides were surprised by the landslide (61-39). Now that people see where the Scouts' leadership really stands on the issue, I expect progress toward full acceptance for homosexuals to increase. I give it 5 years, absolute maximum.

I disagree. "Sponsored" by churches in most cases means that the church lets them use a room for troop meetings that was going to be otherwise unoccupied anyway. Big deal. Sure, there will probably be some troops that meet at hardcore hate churches who will have to find a new meeting place, but that's hardly the death knell of scouting.

I was never a scout but our Catholic church sponsored a scout troop. Around here the Arlington (VA) diocese (conservative) has issues with the decision, while the DC Archdiocese (liberal) has no issues.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Well I am sure that if the Scouts allowed gays to be leaders then that would lead down a slipper slope where all of a sudden dogs and turtles would end up running troops as well!

Think of the children!! Just say no to Den-Turtles!

:D

Boy Scout Troop 62 of New Jersey is led by the Green Lantern at Six Flags Great Adventure. :p:D
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

The Boy Scouts of America vote to allow gay scouts was a very small step on the road to a true acceptance

The Boy Scouts of America decided to let gay kids in yesterday, only that's not what really happened, is it? There have always been gay children in the Boy Scouts. What changed yesterday is that they won't kick you out if you tell people you're gay. So you won't be told by an adult authority figure – one wearing a uniform, no less – that you're weird and different and don't belong in the special club with the normal kids. I don't think it's much of a stretch to see how the Boy Scout's decision will save lives. We know what happens when we single gay kids out and tell them that their very existence is shameful. It often involves rope, or pills, or high places, or a gun a kid turns on himself.

They still won't let gay adults be leaders, so once you turn 18, you're out. But that will change eventually. Society is clearly moving in the right direction on the issue of treating gay people like actual human beings. We're maybe 20 years away from everyone pretending that the gay rights legacy belongs to them, the way people do today with the civil rights movement. If Republicans can claim Martin Luther King now, surely they can claim Matthew Sheppard down the road.

But not today. Today there a people who would still look a gay child in the eyes and tell him "you don't belong here". Give the Westboro Baptist Church nutters credit: at least they don't hide what they believe. Is there really a substantive difference between "God Hates Fags" and "you aren't allowed to join the Boy Scouts"? The only reason anyone opposed the scout's policy change was the belief that being gay is somehow against God, that it makes God sad or angry. They like to mask the hate behind "hate the sin, love the sinner," but what good does that do you when the sin is who you are?

You want to blame someone for adults preying on kids? Look in the mirror. Do you insist on shaming gay kids? Do you drive them to the closet? You're like Santa Claus to child predators. You're more useful than the internet.

Honestly, I cannot fathom what drives these people to be so cruel to children. They're no better than schoolyard bullies – worse, in fact, because they have the perspective of adulthood and still hate. They have something else, too: power. The power of an organization that claims to protect families. The power of media platforms on radio and TV. The power of a governor's mansion.

When they tell gays they don't get to have special rights, like having a normal childhood, or loving someone forever, when they call treating gay children like children "political correctness," when they tell those same kids God will take revenge on them for having feelings, when they say now you will be raped, that's when they show their true, ugly faces. That's when we know them.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Uh, yah, very comparable.

You compared it with churches....how is that any more comparable than the military?

In the end, I think it will make the program stronger. I know a few scouts who have worked in the program for decades who left when the initial decision (against inclusion) was made. I think this will bring a lot of strong leaders back into the program (and hopefully they will allow gay scout leaders as well).
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Understandable, yet regrettable that the Boy Scouts crumble under the extreme pressure they were put under. But such is what America has become. I'm sure they'll cave the rest of the way soon, as those pushing these agendas brook no disagreement with their views.

This PC garbage really got out of hand when they started allowing women to own land and vote and black people to eat in restaurants with white people. Back when America was America, by Parise.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

You compared it with churches....how is that any more comparable than the military?

In the end, I think it will make the program stronger. I know a few scouts who have worked in the program for decades who left when the initial decision (against inclusion) was made. I think this will bring a lot of strong leaders back into the program (and hopefully they will allow gay scout leaders as well).
The military is something mandated by and paid for by government. It's not a voluntary association like a church or the Boy Scouts. One is comparable to the Boy Scouts, the other isn't remotely.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

You compared it with churches....how is that any more comparable than the military?

In the end, I think it will make the program stronger. I know a few scouts who have worked in the program for decades who left when the initial decision (against inclusion) was made. I think this will bring a lot of strong leaders back into the program (and hopefully they will allow gay scout leaders as well).

One potential that I think could very well arise, and we saw it WAY too much during civil rights in the 60's, is that they bring in gay people solely because of their sexual orientation.

“Thank you all very much, but I don’t want this. Look, I appreciate what you kids did, I really do, but this isn’t what I wanted. I’m proud to be gay, and I’m proud to be in a country where I’m free to express myself, but freedom is a two-way street. If I’m free to express myself, then the Scouts have to be free to express themselves too. I know these men; they are good men. They are kind men. They do what they think is best for kids, no matter how wrong we think they might be, it isn’t right for us to force them to think our way. It’s up to us to persuade and help them see the light, not extort them to. Please don’t cut the Scouts’ funding. The Scouts help and have always helped a lot of kids. That’s why I love them. I will continue to persuade them to change their minds, but this is the wrong way to do it.” -Big Gay Al
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

One potential that I think could very well arise, and we saw it WAY too much during civil rights in the 60's, is that they bring in gay people solely because of their sexual orientation.

“Thank you all very much, but I don’t want this. Look, I appreciate what you kids did, I really do, but this isn’t what I wanted. I’m proud to be gay, and I’m proud to be in a country where I’m free to express myself, but freedom is a two-way street. If I’m free to express myself, then the Scouts have to be free to express themselves too. I know these men; they are good men. They are kind men. They do what they think is best for kids, no matter how wrong we think they might be, it isn’t right for us to force them to think our way. It’s up to us to persuade and help them see the light, not extort them to. Please don’t cut the Scouts’ funding. The Scouts help and have always helped a lot of kids. That’s why I love them. I will continue to persuade them to change their minds, but this is the wrong way to do it.” -Big Gay Al

"When do we want it?" "Timmay!"
 
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