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Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Didn't know Jesus had a middle name, or at least initial.

Or that he uses explitives.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

5mn_Major said:
The US is Christian influenced and that holds probably more than it ever has. Jesus was about compassion, respect towards others, equal treatment, giving to the poor. He was not about stopping homosexuality. Just google 'Jesus and gays' and you'll get what you need there. Frankly the ruling is probably more toward what the son of God taught than not.

The orientation that you're referring to is evangelical or old testament thinking. Christianity became what it is today because of the above teaching of compassion. IMO the conservative evangelicals have been trying to railroad the religion forever. Frankly if you think about govt services and Christian teaching...we're probably more of a compassionate Christian nation than most 'conservatives' would like.
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Bob Gray said:
You have a very different understanding of many things that I do. Being compassionate has zero to do with whether something is shown in the bible as being right or wrong or according to what God said or however one wants to put it. One can believe that someone is totally going down the wrong road in an area, but still be entirely compassionate toward them. This is a distinction that seems to be increasing lost in our feel good society. And regarding government, it will never deliver compassion that remotely approaches the compassion that individuals giving of themselves can deliver. Government can play a role in helping foster things, but if it supplants personal individual involvement with one's fellow man, the equation is a loser.
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I lean towards Bob's view. After Christ confronted the mob about to stone the woman ("...cast the first stone"), he admonishes the woman to go and sin no more. Christ did not condone the sin, He just told the sinner to stop sinning.

If one believes that the homosexual act is a sin, then you want the person to stop to protect their immortal soul. But should the Christian (or other religion) do a hellfire and ****ation rant on that group or person? Nope. We were given free will to do what we want. Some of our choices are correct, and some are incorrect. We live with the consequences of these actions.

If a homosexual wanted my advice I would say, "Don't do it." But it is always their choice and the consequences (if any) are theirs.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

joecct said:
I lean towards Bob's view. After Christ confronted the mob about to stone the woman ("...cast the first stone"), he admonishes the woman to go and sin no more. Christ did not condone the sin, He just told the sinner to stop sinning.

If one believes that the homosexual act is a sin, then you want the person to stop to protect their immortal soul. But should the Christian (or other religion) do a hellfire and ****ation rant on that group or person? Nope. We were given free will to do what we want. Some of our choices are correct, and some are incorrect. We live with the consequences of these actions.

If a homosexual wanted my advice I would say, "Don't do it." But it is always their choice and the consequences (if any) are theirs.
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The Romans tried to stop "criminals" from doing things they didn't want. In order to achieve this by scaring people into not doing the crime, they refer to the crime as a "sin".
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Priceless said:
Everyone knows Jesus was a goalie. Most hockey players swear.
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Well, there are a variety of references in the Bible to Jesus being the rock and other solid, defensive language, so I guess goaltending could work. He'd probably have some real great artwork on his mask!
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

FlagDUDE08 said:
The Romans tried to stop "criminals" from doing things they didn't want. In order to achieve this by scaring people into not doing the crime, they refer to the crime as a "sin".
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And the Romans turned Christians into tiki torches, etc. What the Romans said has little to nothing to do with Christianity. Now if one worships Jupiter, etc. then that's another story.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Bob Gray said:
And the Romans turned Christians into tiki torches, etc. What the Romans said has little to nothing to do with Christianity. Now if one worships Jupiter, etc. then that's another story.
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Christmas is when it is because of the Romans ;) just one example of the roman influence on Christianity.
 
Shirtless Guy said:
Yes but isn't this where we should separate the fact that you can get married but someone doesn't have to sell you might cake for that wedding if they don't want to. You getting married doesn't effect them in anyway, they tolerate your marriage but shouldn't be required to provide any services in conjunction with that marriage if they don't want to.
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No one forced the baker to enter the wedding cake industry, either. But once he did, he has to abide by his state's anti discrimination laws just as car dealers, plumbers, shoe salesmen, and every other businessperson has to. That he never had to deal with gay customers before they could get married doesn't excuse his breaking the law now (in those places where he would be breaking the law).
 
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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

unofan said:
No one forced the baker to enter the wedding cake industry, either. But once he did, he has to abide by his state's anti discrimination laws just as car dealers, plumbers, shoe salesmen, and every other businessperson has to. That he never had to deal with gay customers before they could get married doesn't excuse his breaking the law now (in those places where he would be breaking the law).
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I accept the issue in places where sexual orientation is a protected class, but that is not the case everywhere but you can bet they will press the issue everywhere because that's what they seem to do. I like how you just ignored my Jim Crow comment, btw.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Shirtless Guy said:
Christmas is when it is because of the Romans ;) just one example of the roman influence on Christianity.
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But in the context cited of defining sin, what a clearly non-Christian group happened to say does have little to do with how sin is or isn't viewed in Christianity. In other areas there is certainly an argument to be made that there is some level of influence.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Bob Gray said:
Well, there are a variety of references in the Bible to Jesus being the rock and other solid, defensive language, so I guess goaltending could work. He'd probably have some real great artwork on his mask!
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You didn't know he was a goalie? "Jesus saves! but Moses scores on the rebound..." :D
 
Shirtless Guy said:
Yes but isn't this where we should separate the fact that you can get married but someone doesn't have to sell you might cake for that wedding if they don't want to. You getting married doesn't effect them in anyway, they tolerate your marriage but shouldn't be required to provide any services in conjunction with that marriage if they don't want to.
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While I feel they should bake the cake an easy answer is if gay marriage is legal in the state then they can't refuse the customer's request but if it isn't I suppose they can. Mind you I'm not a lawyer. I don't like playing those games though because I'm not sure where you draw the line.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

joecct said:
I lean towards Bob's view. After Christ confronted the mob about to stone the woman ("...cast the first stone"), he admonishes the woman to go and sin no more. Christ did not condone the sin, He just told the sinner to stop sinning.

If one believes that the homosexual act is a sin, then you want the person to stop to protect their immortal soul. But should the Christian (or other religion) do a hellfire and ****ation rant on that group or person? Nope. We were given free will to do what we want. Some of our choices are correct, and some are incorrect. We live with the consequences of these actions.

If a homosexual wanted my advice I would say, "Don't do it." But it is always their choice and the consequences (if any) are theirs.
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You're point leaves one gaping hole though. One is selling one's body for money...and is degrading on many fronts. Anyone should stop it. The other is two people who care for each other...as hetero relationships are.

If a homosexual wanted my advice I would probably say, "Don't do it" also. But that's primarily because it makes no sense to me. As the son of God, Jesus could wordsmith his words very carefully...and the practice doesn't make His top 100.
 
Shirtless Guy said:
I accept the issue in places where sexual orientation is a protected class, but that is not the case everywhere but you can bet they will press the issue everywhere because that's what they seem to do. I like how you just ignored my Jim Crow comment, btw.
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Yeah, I'm sure there were some businesses who didn't support Jim Crow laws and were forced to follow them involuntarily. But let's look at some major examples. The Montgomery bus company didn't ask for the law to be repealed when the boycott began. It doubled down and asked for the right to stop serving black areas of the city. When the feds struck down Jim Crow laws on interstate commerce grounds, many affected businesses found work arounds to be wholly or primarily intrastate companies exempt from those rulings.

Such laws were made because of the support of the business class; they were not forced upon them.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

unofan said:
The norm of all of human history until relatively recently was also that women were property (first of their fathers, then their husbands). Does that mean we should stop treating women as equals?
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That was a relatively recent change. Just like interracial marriage was a relatively recent change. If we want Biblical standards we should go back to the norm from 1 A.D.

Bob Gray said:
You mean the norm of all of human history until the last handful of years?
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Norm of human history is a horrible standard.
 
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