Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

And obviously the power in the negotiations and the threat of veto, let alone that he's got one side of Congress under the control of his party give him great leverage in how money is spent.

ROTFLMAO

You need 60 votes in the Senate to do ANYTHING. So, he has nothing in the Congress. The threat of veto doesn't work when the threat of default is the alternative. The next threat will be government shutdown which isn't going to work out well for him either.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

ROTFLMAO

You need 60 votes in the Senate to do ANYTHING. So, he has nothing in the Congress. The threat of veto doesn't work when the threat of default is the alternative. The next threat will be government shutdown which isn't going to work out well for him either.

Well, thanks for clearing up how the federal government operates. All power resides in the House of Representatives. Guess I wasn't paying close enough attention in civics class or something.

 

[Patman]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Meanwhile in Congress...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...port-arming-cartel-for-war-through-operation/

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Meanwhile in Congress...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...port-arming-cartel-for-war-through-operation/

Don't worry your heros, the gun lobby, will save us from the evil government:

Gun lobby fights Mexico border rifle sale control

(Reuters) - The U.S. gun industry on Wednesday sued to block requirements that weapons dealers along the border with Mexico report multiple sales of semi-automatic rifles, escalating the fight with the Obama administration.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) last month ordered more than 8,000 gun dealers in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California to report such sales to try to stem the "iron river" of guns flowing to violent Mexican drug cartels.

Let's see how long it takes conservatives to turn on them. I bet...never.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others


All those who made it and quickly jaded
To them we got nothing to say
Our immigrada, immigraniada
For them it's Don Quixote's way
But if you give me the invitation
To hear the bells of freedom chime
To hell with your double standards
We're coming rougher every time

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Same song, better version, and with some helpful images just in case some members of the class didn't get the message, which is:

America! Fuck yeah!

 

[Patman]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Don't worry your heros, the gun lobby, will save us from the evil government:

Gun lobby fights Mexico border rifle sale control

(Reuters) - The U.S. gun industry on Wednesday sued to block requirements that weapons dealers along the border with Mexico report multiple sales of semi-automatic rifles, escalating the fight with the Obama administration.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) last month ordered more than 8,000 gun dealers in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California to report such sales to try to stem the "iron river" of guns flowing to violent Mexican drug cartels.

Let's see how long it takes conservatives to turn on them. I bet...never.

You mean the stem the flow of guns that they instigated? Or are they doing this on the basis of the statistics they created by allowing guns to pass? In either case, I'd like to know why you are OK with our government (ATF/DOJ) allowing these weapons to pass to the cartels? Immunity from prosecution has been granted by Congress to high ranking members of the ATF... you're not even slightly interested as to why? Lets note that in these cases they removed several layers of oversight that would have stopped purchases in the first place except that the gov't said "let them go through".

edit: good news though... the washington post has brought it up... mostly to slam conservatives of course... but read between the lines... the things they don't deny should speak volumes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-and-furious/2011/08/12/gIQAv0OxBJ_story.html

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

You mean the stem the flow of guns that they instigated? Or are they doing this on the basis of the statistics they created by allowing guns to pass? In either case, I'd like to know why you are OK with our government (ATF/DOJ) allowing these weapons to pass to the cartels?

Hmm..lets take a closer look. Even Almington would likely approve...and disapprove.

I absolutely believe being directly responsible for causing mass violence on Americans and others is criminal. If the ATF has done this, those actions are criminal. Indeed, the ATF as we speak is being investigated. I fully support the guilty in such a case be brought to justice. As they should be. As a related note, many felt that those responsible for the Iraq war should be similarly investigated.

Now let's look at the gun lobby. They are singlehandedly resulting in the endangering of many lives and our borders with outcomes similar to the ATF's investigated actions.

With the gun lobby, justice isn't even on the table for conservatives. Neither is taking action to stop the same type of extension of violence for which the ATF investigated. In fact, conservative support for the gun lobby is strong even as this action is in direct conflict with another red meat issue border security. Regardless, conservatives will always support the gun lobby...because in terms of ideology, the gun lobby is more important than border security and protecting lives combined.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Hmm..lets take a closer look. Even Almington would likely approve...and disapprove.

I absolutely believe being directly responsible for causing mass violence on Americans and others is criminal. If the ATF has done this, those actions are criminal. Indeed, the ATF as we speak is being investigated. I fully support the guilty in such a case be brought to justice. As they should be. As a related note, many felt that those responsible for the Iraq war should be similarly investigated.

Now let's look at the gun lobby. They are singlehandedly resulting in the endangering of many lives and our borders with outcomes similar to the ATF's investigated actions.

With the gun lobby, justice isn't even on the table for conservatives. Neither is taking action to stop the same type of extension of violence for which the ATF investigated. In fact, conservative support for the gun lobby is strong even as this action is in direct conflict with another red meat issue border security. Regardless, conservatives will always support the gun lobby...because in terms of ideology, the gun lobby is more important than border security and protecting lives combined.

Funny, you've never shown nearly this much concern for the violence taking place on the Arizona-Mexico border resulting from the drug trade and other illegal activities.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Funny, you've never shown nearly this much concern for the violence taking place on the Arizona-Mexico border resulting from the drug trade and other illegal activities.

I have been more for general border security than against it. Its a fairly important issue that I don't have a strong preference on.

My main opinion is that really strong border security (as with the other roles of education, roads, military) is not really a small government position. And that its ok to admit that.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I have been more for general border security than against it. Its a fairly important issue that I don't have a strong preference on.

My main opinion is that really strong border security (as with the other roles of education, roads, military) is not really a small government position. And that its ok to admit that.

So you're 51 percent in favor of border security and 49 percent against that. Forgive me as an Arizonan for thinking it's thinking like that that helped created the border mess we have right now. Why on earth would you have mixed feelings about having a secure border? That's just bizarre, but people can afford such inconsistencies I guess when they aren't directly impacted by border problems.

The argument about small government can't secure it's border is one of the weakest against securing the border, and I've always been puzzled why you hang your hat on it so much.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

The argument about small government can't secure it's border is one of the weakest against securing the border, and I've always been puzzled why you hang your hat on it so much.

Agree. It would take, what? Maybe 1% of the Federal Budget to actually secure the border? A very small government (compared to what we have now) could secure the border if it chose to do so.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Agree. It would take, what? Maybe 1% of the Federal Budget to actually secure the border? A very small government (compared to what we have now) could secure the border if it chose to do so.

You want to put up some actual math and show how it can be done for that?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Agree. It would take, what? Maybe 1% of the Federal Budget to actually secure the border? A very small government (compared to what we have now) could secure the border if it chose to do so.

It's a red herring argument that shows 5mn really isn't interested in a secure border. Unfortunate, but lots of folks these days don't care about issues until they are right on their doorstep.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I saw a report where illegal immigration from Mexico has decreased 70% from 2000 to 2010. Apparently the way to secure the border is to destroy the economy.

After actually viewing the border, the idea of a "wall" is ludicrous. The terrain is the wall.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I saw a report where illegal immigration from Mexico has decreased 70% from 2000 to 2010. Apparently the way to secure the border is to destroy the economy.

After actually viewing the border, the idea of a "wall" is ludicrous. The terrain is the wall.

Maybe that's how Obama is securing the border, and we just haven't understood his communications (as he claims about so many other good things he's doing for us).

The terrain is difficult, but for the most part can and is traversed with varying degrees of difficulty. Especially if there's coordination to get picked up by a vehicle after getting a little ways into Arizona. Plus, using the terrain as somewhat of a wall is relegating those crossing the terrain who aren't physically strong enough or well-provisioned to a significant risk of dying in the desert, particularly in the scorching summer months.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Maybe that's how Obama is securing the border, and we just haven't understood his communications (as he claims about so many other good things he's doing for us).

The terrain is difficult, but for the most part can and is traversed with varying degrees of difficulty. Especially if there's coordination to get picked up by a vehicle after getting a little ways into Arizona. Plus, using the terrain as somewhat of a wall is relegating those crossing the terrain who aren't physically strong enough or well-provisioned to a significant risk of dying in the desert, particularly in the scorching summer months.

I'm giving the Republicans credit for something for once, you should be happy.

I have a feeling some of what we're learning about tracking people in Afghanistan is going to be helpful along the border.

By the way, the Arizona bureau of tourism should be running ads 24/7 just showing pictures of the hills. Granted it's a niche taste, but I think it's one of the most beautiful places in the world.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Agreed there is some amazing beauty in southern Arizona, though it's not a taste everyone has.

As for Republicans, I'm not always a fan of how they have dealt with border issues, particularly our previous president.

Out of curiosity, where is that picture from?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Out of curiosity, where is that picture from?

Santa Catalina Mountains north of Tucson.

Car chases should be filmed on the road to Mount Lemmon. Not only is it lovely; it has curves worthy of an F-1 course.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

So your plan to fix the border is to throw 15 billion dollars a year more at it...15 billion more than we're already spending? That amounts to increasing the size of the entire Customs and Border Security Service almost 150%. The increase alone is equivalent to well over 10% of our entire education budget...or over half the annual budget for US high schools. Are you nuts? Do you know what the ongoing interest will be on that money alone? It didn't take you long to show big govt conservative colors?

See this is exactly the kind of big govt thinking where the hypocracy comes in. You have your special interest pet project of a paltry $15 billion permanent increase...and then you are supposedly for small government and everyone else needs to cut spending while you spend more.

Good point. It would take far less than 1 percent of the federal budget to secure the border, even more reason why they have no excuse to not do it. Now back to your usual aversion to national security and safety along our borders.