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Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

the question remains why is it that the successful, tax contributing states are by and large liberal/Dem (with the notable exception of Texas) while the freeloading states all vote conservative/GOP?

By "all vote conservative/GOP", I assume you mean in presidential elections only, as shown on your map. Because in my state, North Dakota, when it comes time to send pigs to Congress to get a snout in the porkbarrel, we freeloaders have been sending Dems to Washington since before you were born. :p
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

As an aside, Texas has huge military installations (Ft Hood for one) yet seems to be a donor state, which would shoot your theory to hell, now wouldn't it?

Really? I know you're only half serious (and half being a complete ********* troll, and don't act indignant like I'm wrong), but that's the best you can come up with?

Most "net recipient" states are sparsely populated, large land mass states (Texas is the latter, but not the former). Between A) Ag subsidies, B)Federal highway dollars, and C)military installations, that's a lot of dollars going to relatively few people.

Ag subsidies are a complete waste, granted, though the country does still have to be fed. But the other two have to be spent, and while Navy bases pretty much have to be on the coasts, it probably makes some sense to put Army and Air Force inland so they are centrally located, making them protected from border incursions as well as better able to react to other events. Also, would you want a huge freaking military installation in downtown Manhattan? Or would you rather locate training centers in areas of the country where there's room to train?

New Mexico's the highest recipient state almost entirely because of Los Alamos. Now, we could probably put that lab somwhere in Connecticut between NYC and Boston if you really want those dollars staying out east. But my guess is you'd rather have a nuclear testing facility in the middle of a freaking desert just in case something goes wrong.

Like I've said before, too, how would having I-80 help anyone if it stopped in Salt Lake City, started again until Chicago, stopped again at South Bend, then started again near Pittsburgh? The whole point of the Interstate system is to connect the country. Guess what, a lane-mile of interstate in Nebraska probably costs roughly the same as a lane-mile of Interstate in Mass.; at the least it's probably within a 5-10% differential (labor isn't the primary expense, materials and machinery are). Yet Mass. has more people and fewer interstate miles. Of course Nebraska's going to be a net + on highway funding alone.
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Ahhh, I see. No explanation for why Dem states are sending more money to DC than they're getting back, while GOP states are taking in more than they're giving, except for a vague reference to military spending that you've done nothing to back up.

I think you are better off moving on from this one. You're getting crushed. :cool:

Yawn.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Really? I know you're only half serious, but that's the best you can come up with?

Most "net recipient" states are sparsely populated, large land mass states (Texas is the latter, but not the former). Between A) Ag subsidies, B)Federal highway dollars, and C)military installations, that's a lot of dollars going to relatively few people.

Ag subsidies are a complete waste, granted, though the country does still have to be fed. But the other two have to be spent, and while Navy bases pretty much have to be on the coasts, it probably makes some sense to put Army and Air Force inland so they are centrally located, making them protected from border incursions as well as better able to react to other events.

New Mexico's the highest recipient state almost entirely because of Los Alamos. Now, we could probably put that lab somwhere in Connecticut between NYC and Boston if you really want those dollars staying out east. But my guess is you'd rather have a nuclear testing facility in the middle of a freaking desert just in case something goes wrong.

Like I've said before, too, how would having I-80 help anyone if it stopped in Salt Lake City, started again until Chicago, stopped again at South Bend, then started again near Pittsburgh? The whole point of the Interstate system is to connect the country. Guess what, a lane-mile of interstate in Nebraska probably costs roughly the same as a lane-mile of Interstate in Mass.; at the least it's probably within a 5-10% differential (labor isn't the primary expense, materials and machinery are). Yet Mass. has more people and fewer interstate miles. Of course Nebraska's going to be a net + on highway funding alone.

Why are AG subsidies and federal highway dollars going to these places though? I'm going to assume no new interstates are being build across Nebraska. Maintenance on a flat road much less traveled than the highways in Massachusetts with far less bridges shouldn't cost as much. AG subsidies are pure pork. Besides, Texas, California and Florida are huge agricultural states and they're net payers.

Furthermore, Navy bases are on the coast so those states should be getting the same fed dollars as in land army bases (more in fact as maintaining subs and aircraft carriers probably costs more than army barracks).

I'm all for some proof on this, but to sum up - AG subsidies = conservative rural area pork, highway funding should go mostly to where the people actually live (as in the coasts which are largely Dem) and I need some evidence on the military spending. Why are lib Dems funding the rest of the country???

PS - Good example on Los Alamos. That's the kind of evidence I'm looking for.
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others


You'd do well to put that psychopath on ignore. If you started arguing that pizza tastes good, he'd go on a lengthy rant explaining why it isn't and that's a fact and you're stupid, stupid.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

By "all vote conservative/GOP", I assume you mean in presidential elections only, as shown on your map. Because in my state, North Dakota, when it comes time to send pigs to Congress to get a snout in the porkbarrel, we freeloaders have been sending Dems to Washington since before you were born. :p

I expect my money back in interest ;)

Rover, should we re-locate the grand canyon for you?
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Why are AG subsidies and federal highway dollars going to these places though?

I'm going to assume no new interstates are being build across Nebraska. Maintenance on a flat road much less traveled than the highways in Massachusetts with far less bridges shouldn't cost as much.

Massachusetts has roughly 565 miles of interstate. Nebraska has roughly 480miles, of which ~455 miles are the major cross-country route I-80, which only works if it actually crosses the country. Mass. has ~6.6 million people, Nebraska has ~1.8 million.

Dividing the two numbers, Mass has 11700 people per mile of interstate, Nebraska has about 3750. In order for your assumption that highway funding isn't a major cause of the imbalance, there must be a ~300% difference in costs per mile between Mass. and Nebraska. Even taking into account that more of Mass. miles will be 3+ lanes each way while probably 430 of Nebraska's 480 miles are 2 lanes each way, that doesn't equate out to a 300% differential. Especially since the proportion of truck traffic is going to be far higher in Nebraska than in Mass.

Also, we do have rivers in Nebraska. Just because I-80's intentionally built on the flattest part of the state doesn't mean it doesn't go over water or get worn down by semis.

AG subsidies are pure pork. Besides, Texas, California and Florida are huge agricultural states and they're net payers.

Yes they are, I already agreed. As to the latter, that just seems to prove that ag subsidies aren't the determining factor in net distribution of funds.

Furthermore, Navy bases are on the coast so those states should be getting the same fed dollars as in land army bases (more in fact as maintaining subs and aircraft carriers probably costs more than army barracks).

Yeah, M1A1 tanks, stealth bombers, nuclear missile silos, and the like are clearly dirt cheap to maintain.

The point isn't that one is cheaper than the other, it's that one is necessarily distributed over sparser population than the other.

Why are lib Dems funding the rest of the country???

Because you like having national defense and eating food grown across the country that must be trucked to you, you just don't like having any of it in your backyard? THink of it as the price of your NIMBYism.
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

You'd do well to put that psychopath on ignore. If you started arguing that pizza tastes good, he'd go on a lengthy rant explaining why it isn't and that's a fact and you're stupid, stupid.

I think I remember that thread.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Massachusetts has roughly 565 miles of interstate. Nebraska has roughly 480miles, of which ~455 miles are the major cross-country route I-80, which only works if it actually crosses the country. Mass. has ~6.6 million people, Nebraska has ~1.8 million.

Dividing the two numbers, Mass has 11700 people per mile of interstate, Nebraska has about 3750. In order for your assumption that highway funding isn't a major cause of the imbalance, there must be a ~300% difference in costs per mile between Mass. and Nebraska. Even taking into account that more of Mass. miles will be 3+ lanes each way while probably 430 of Nebraska's 480 miles are 2 lanes each way, that doesn't equate out to a 300% differential. Especially since the proportion of truck traffic is going to be far higher in Nebraska than in Mass.

Also, we do have rivers in Nebraska. Just because I-80's intentionally built on the flattest part of the state doesn't mean it doesn't go over water or get worn down by semis.



Yes they are, I already agreed. As to the latter, that just seems to prove that ag subsidies aren't the determining factor in net distribution of funds.



Yeah, M1A1 tanks, stealth bombers, nuclear missile silos, and the like are clearly dirt cheap to maintain.

The point isn't that one is cheaper than the other, it's that one is necessarily distributed over sparser population than the other.



Because you like having national defense and eating food grown across the country that must be trucked to you, you just don't like having any of it in your backyard? THink of it as the price of your NIMBYism.


Uno, you misread my post. I'm not questioning the notion that highway dollars are part of the reason why Nebraska lets say is a "taker" instead of a "donor" state. What I'm saying is why does that happen, unless those people are simply porkers? Presumably a more populated state with more roads ought to be getting the funding, not a rural one with less bridge maintenance and as you say, less traffic, highway lanes, etc. Furthermore, states like Georgia have about the same or more people than Mass.

So, it gets back to the question. Why are liberal states funding conservative ones, when the cons are the ones always whining about their tax burden? Both AG and highway funds are being used for pork to fund lazy conservative states (with the notable exception of Texas) at the expense of the successful tax paying liberal ones. Unless you are in favor of AG subsidies and pork barrel highway spending in these rural areas, what other conclusion can you draw?
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Pizza tastes good. I just really like the taste of pizza. Especially one of those Papa Murphy pizzas with generous toppings.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Good to see U.S. voters still favor SB1070 by almost 2-to-1. And a majority of voters think the states should act on their own to enforce immigration laws, rather than rely on the federal government. The people get it.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/59_support_arizona_law_53_trust_states_more_than_feds_to_enforce_immigration_law

To be honest, I would have thought the number supporting would be higher. I wonder if the numbers were affected by the Court ruling.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

To be honest, I would have thought the number supporting would be higher. I wonder if the numbers were affected by the Court ruling.

I think the numbers have been close to those cited in the latest poll for awhile. The poll had similar numbers saying they opposed the judge's ruling, so I don't think the ruling impacted who supports or doesn't support 1070 much.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

I think the numbers have been close to those cited in the latest poll for awhile. The poll had similar numbers saying they opposed the judge's ruling, so I don't think the ruling impacted who supports or doesn't support 1070 much.

A better poll would be who outside of Arizona cares a lot about Arizona's illegal immigration problem. I personally wouldn't vote against somebody who supported this law. However, its pretty far down on my list of priorities.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

A better poll would be who outside of Arizona cares a lot about Arizona's illegal immigration problem. I personally wouldn't vote against somebody who supported this law. However, its pretty far down on my list of priorities.

From what I've read, a lot of people do. It's cited as a major issue in election races around the country.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

A better poll would be who outside of Arizona cares a lot about Arizona's illegal immigration problem. I personally wouldn't vote against somebody who supported this law. However, its pretty far down on my list of priorities.

Actually, I've always thought you could make polls substantially more entertaining, and also provide a measure of the worth of their numbers, if you were required to throw a few "crazy" questions in each one.

"Do you support the Arizona immigration law?"
"Do you think the government is doing enought to clear up the gulf?"
"Do you think Lindsay Lohan is the love child of Stephen Hawking and Rosanne Barr?"

Then you'd almost always get poll results like this:

38% of those polled approve of the job the President is doing on foreign policy.
26% approve of the job Congress is doing.
58% would be in favor of adopting the Arizona immigration statute nationwide.
79% think at least one person on their block has been abducted by aliens and is using secret telekinetic powers to spy on private e-mails.
81% believe there is a secret room in the White House where the mistresses of Presidents are allowed to live.
 
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Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

That map doesn't suggest that voters are stupid. That map suggests what we've known for decades - that Demicans and Republicrats are no different, and that a career politician from Arkansas or Utah is usually just as wasteful as a career politican from New York or California.

On second thought, that map does show that voters are stupid. We're the ones who continue to vote these idiots into office, because we're Americans and our motto is "moo".
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

The Diary Council will like that motto. It does fit.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

From what I've read, a lot of people do. It's cited as a major issue in election races around the country.

The major issue in races around the country is jobs. Aside from the neighbors as aliens and Lindsey Lohan love child status that SJHovey correctly wrote about, if you added "would you be in favor of giving Arizona back to Mexico to solve the illegal immigration problem" I don't think you'd like the results of that poll.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

The major issue in races around the country is jobs. Aside from the neighbors as aliens and Lindsey Lohan love child status that SJHovey correctly wrote about, if you added "would you be in favor of giving Arizona back to Mexico to solve the illegal immigration problem" I don't think you'd like the results of that poll.

Giving Arizona back wouldn't solve the problem, it'd just shift some dynamics.

If you don't think it's a major issue around the country, you just aren't paying attention.
 
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