Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

[ARM]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

And since there is no real penalty for a fresh line to give it a try, the increase of icings go up.

The "fresh line" piece isn't true, because you can't change after being called for icing.

 

[scrambledlegs]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

The "fresh line" piece isn't true, because you can't change after being called for icing.

I was just building on ONMaa's example of doing a faceoff in your defensive zone (with fresh legs) and icing the puck at that time. At that point, there is no real penalty.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I was just building on ONMaa's example of doing a faceoff in your defensive zone (with fresh legs) and icing the puck at that time. At that point, there is no real penalty.

you act as though teams are actually employing this as a system or some focal point of their actual strategy. i am confident that i have seen enough games with enough different teams to say unequivocally that is not true. teams value puck possession way too much to risk turning it over or giving their opponents yet another opportunity to win an offensive zone faceoff and get a scoring chance. i don't know a coach alive that 9 out of 10 times wouldn't prefer to maintain possession and try to break out and attack on the rush than throw the puck down the ice in a perhaps less than 50/50 situation and then give their opponents a legitimate scoring opportunity should they win the ensuing faceoff. many of the coaches i have talked to over the years actually chart scoring chances off of faceoffs...and from what they tell me, the team with more is usually the team that wins the game.

that isn't to say that teams don't try to hit the home run pass, but that happened with the old icing rule too. the fire the puck into the NZ off a dzone faceoff and try to fly a winger play isn't new...that went on with the old rules too. does it happen more now? it's debatable. i honestly dont know either way. if it is, it's not by a significant enough amount that it's having a big impact.

perhaps we should put the two line pass rule back into hockey? less home run pass attempts would equal less icings...

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

you act as though teams are actually employing this as a system or some focal point of their actual strategy. i am confident that i have seen enough games with enough different teams to say unequivocally that is not true. teams value puck possession way too much to risk turning it over or giving their opponents yet another opportunity to win an offensive zone faceoff and get a scoring chance. i don't know a coach alive that 9 out of 10 times wouldn't prefer to maintain possession and try to break out and attack on the rush than throw the puck down the ice in a perhaps less than 50/50 situation and then give their opponents a legitimate scoring opportunity should they win the ensuing faceoff. many of the coaches i have talked to over the years actually chart scoring chances off of faceoffs...and from what they tell me, the team with more is usually the team that wins the game.

that isn't to say that teams don't try to hit the home run pass, but that happened with the old icing rule too. the fire the puck into the NZ off a dzone faceoff and try to fly a winger play isn't new...that went on with the old rules too. does it happen more now? it's debatable. i honestly dont know either way. if it is, it's not by a significant enough amount that it's having a big impact.

perhaps we should put the two line pass rule back into hockey? less home run pass attempts would equal less icings...

I guess my example sparked a good debate....good, that was the intent.

The example I used was employed by a fast team at the U19 level on Olympic size ice,
with the old icing rules in play. They used the play and their speed to beat the icing calls.

I like any rule that stretches and opens up the game, including the removal of the red line and the new icing rule. Don't go back to using the red line for the two line pass.

Also agree that most college teams are too good to get victimized by the same set play each time like the example provided. Does not mean teams will on occasion go for "Da Bomb".

Like you also hate giving up the puck clearing the zone. A good clean puck contol breakout leads to less goals against and more opportunities going forward.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I've seen about a dozen games this year and recall only one instance where the refs completely blew the icing call. This was the first such icing of the game (not long after the drop of the first puck) and it was obvious that the lineswoman just forgot about the rule change. What was weird was this was well into the season. There have been a few judgmental calls you could argue with, but no other such blatant blunders, at least that I've seen.

Was that the one where I yelled at the zebras to "learn the @#$! rules!" immediately afterward? Seems to me that they didn't blow another one like that the rest of the game.

In all seriousness, I think that this was a good rule change as well. It's a nice compromise between having to touch up and keeping the players safe. If the offensive player can get to the puck first, more power to them. The big point is the other piece of D2D's post -- "each just has to avoid getting tangled up with the other" as they're going for the puck, and thankfully said avoidance has occurred in every opportunity I've seen.

perhaps we should put the two line pass rule back into hockey? less home run pass attempts would equal less icings...

Oh, good gracious, no. The NHL game has become so much better since they finally decided to rid themselves of that archaic rule.

 

[ARM]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

In all seriousness, I think that this was a good rule change as well. It's a nice compromise between having to touch up and keeping the players safe. If the offensive player can get to the puck first, more power to them. The big point is the other piece of D2D's post -- "each just has to avoid getting tangled up with the other" as they're going for the puck, and thankfully said avoidance has occurred in every opportunity I've seen.

I still don't like it. Why compromise on keeping the players safe? This rule change won't result in a large increase in injuries. But if it is 3 more across women's college hockey a year, the problem is that they'll tend to be bad injuries like broken legs, concussions, and neck trauma. While I don't think the case of Gray and Brausen going into the boards at the DECC was a result of this rule, that is the type of incidents that may increase. The "plus" side of the rule change is not great enough that I want to pay with a risk of serious injuries in order to get it. Although I think that with wings like Kessel and Terry, the Gophs will benefit from this change more than most teams, I don't think it improves the game as a whole.

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I think this new rule is fine! Anything to erase the slow moving, automatic icing that the NCAA used to call...it was embarassing to watch a defensemen skate slowly behind a puck that barely had enough to get over the end line!! All that was missing was putting a broom in their hands and screaming "hurrrry, haaaard!" I put up with that crap for four years! This new rule keeps the D honest and on their toes!

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I just don't get the people who are so concerned about injuries that may or may not happen because two players are racing to the faceoff dot...which isn't even close to the boards.

The game of hockey is inherently dangerous...but racing to the faceoff dot is about 50th on the list of dangerous things that go on in a hockey game that can cause serious injury.

Everything in the game has the potential to hurt someone and that is the reality of the game we love. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about player safety...and I think the injury issue would be absolutely worth looking at if we were doing a straight touch up icing, but where do you draw the line? Maybe we should play in roller blades so nobody gets cut by a skate? Use a foam puck so nobody gets hurt when the puck hits them? How about plastic sticks? And let's not forget to put padding on the boards all the way around the rink!

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

Oh, good gracious, no. The NHL game has become so much better since they finally decided to rid themselves of that archaic rule.

just because i think you missed my point...i was being sarcastic

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

Maybe we should play in roller blades so nobody gets cut by a skate? Use a foam puck so nobody gets hurt when the puck hits them? How about plastic sticks? And let's not forget to put padding on the boards all the way around the rink!

I know, let's play the games on Wii (EA sports, "if it's in the game, it's in the game!") Nahh, never mind, there might be an increase in carpal tunnel injuries....that won't work either.

 

[binnyrus]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I just don't get the people who are so concerned about injuries that may or may not happen because two players are racing to the faceoff dot...which isn't even close to the boards.

The game of hockey is inherently dangerous...but racing to the faceoff dot is about 50th on the list of dangerous things that go on in a hockey game that can cause serious injury.

Everything in the game has the potential to hurt someone and that is the reality of the game we love. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about player safety...and I think the injury issue would be absolutely worth looking at if we were doing a straight touch up icing, but where do you draw the line? Maybe we should play in roller blades so nobody gets cut by a skate? Use a foam puck so nobody gets hurt when the puck hits them? How about plastic sticks? And let's not forget to put padding on the boards all the way around the rink!

I don't disagree with much of this post, but unlike ARM I absolutely DO believe that Gray's injury was a direct result of the new ruling. Had the race not been on the whistle would've blown before the players got tangled up. And, there was NOT enough ice room from the faceoff dot to the back board. Gray never had a chance to defend herself. When you hit the ice at the goal line how are you supposed to stop yourself? Hockey has seen many an injury from that spot to the boards because there's not enough time to get your hands free to defend yourself from the board if you're sliding in head first. Under the old rules the whistle would have already been blown.

Generally speaking though, I haven't decided yet. Aside from players wearing themselves out more, I don't see much of a difference.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

Generally speaking though, I haven't decided yet. Aside from players wearing themselves out more, I don't see much of a difference.

This is a valid point.... I said earlier that I'm generally a fan of the traditional game, however..... what is the percentage of time that an icing gets waived off? In games I've seen so far, I'd have to guess that it's less than 10%.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I just don't get the people who are so concerned about injuries that may or may not happen because two players are racing to the faceoff dot...which isn't even close to the boards.

The game of hockey is inherently dangerous...but racing to the faceoff dot is about 50th on the list of dangerous things that go on in a hockey game that can cause serious injury.

Everything in the game has the potential to hurt someone and that is the reality of the game we love. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about player safety...and I think the injury issue would be absolutely worth looking at if we were doing a straight touch up icing, but where do you draw the line? Maybe we should play in roller blades so nobody gets cut by a skate? Use a foam puck so nobody gets hurt when the puck hits them? How about plastic sticks? And let's not forget to put padding on the boards all the way around the rink!

We already use plastic sticks. Eliminates slivers.

 

[ARM]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I don't disagree with much of this post, but unlike ARM I absolutely DO believe that Gray's injury was a direct result of the new ruling. Had the race not been on the whistle would've blown before the players got tangled up. And, there was NOT enough ice room from the faceoff dot to the back board. Gray never had a chance to defend herself. When you hit the ice at the goal line how are you supposed to stop yourself? Hockey has seen many an injury from that spot to the boards because there's not enough time to get your hands free to defend yourself from the board if you're sliding in head first. Under the old rules the whistle would have already been blown.

Brausen touched the puck before it reached the goal line, so it wouldn't have been icing under any rules, old or new. That's why I don't think the change had an effect in this case. One of the problems with the ice surface at the DECC is there is so little space from the goal line extended to the end boards in the corners.

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

From TSN this morning....

Question #1: Should the NHL be one step closer to adopting a new icing rule in the wake of Jody Shelley's 2-game suspension for pushing Boston's Adam McQuaid into the end boards on an icing play?

Ray Ferraro: Yes, because this happens far too frequently. Whether it's some form of a hybrid icing that is the rule that gets pushed through I think it moves a step closer.

Michael Peca: Yes, I speak from experience, when I played junior I got slew footed on an icing chase and really wrenched up my ankle pretty bad. I think it's about time the league makes a change.

Bob McKenzie: Yes, the puck chases are great but only to a point. It doesn't have to be no touch, it can be the hybrid icing that is being used in the United States Hockey League as well as the college level.

 

[GumpW]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

Why not a full touch-up icing rule? The way the refs call this rule that is essentially what it is anyway. When two players are racing for the puck and get to the faceoff circle, the ref will almost always waive off the icing call if the two players are essentially equal - isn't that exactly the most dangerous time and the whole point of a hybrid icing rule? Seems to me that if the offensive player is clearly in the lead - and I do get that this might be hard to define - but I'd say at least 3 feet, if not more - then a waive off is perfect. However, when two players are essentially equal then they're being totally setup for major contact in 30 feet! I see refs calling it like this all the time - is that the way the rule is written? If so, then there's little if any safety advantage over full touch-up icing.

 

[ARM]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

My understanding is that the icing is only waved off if the offensive player is clearly in the lead, and for the most part, that's the way that I've seen it called. Sometimes the whistle has blown with the offense in front by a half stride or so and winning the race to the puck, the fans voice some displeasure, but I think that comes down to the judgement of the linesmen.

 

[D2D]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

My understanding is that the icing is only waved off if the offensive player is clearly in the lead...

I could be wrong but my understanding is that the icing is waived off if, in the opinion of the linesman, the offensive player has an equal or better chance to get to the puck first.

 

[ARM]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

I could be wrong but my understanding is that the icing is waived off if, in the opinion of the linesman, the offensive player has an equal or better chance to get to the puck first.

Maybe, but that's not how I've seen it. Here's what I found at one article concerning rule changes:

That change is mitigated, however, by the change to "hybrid icing." Basically, if the offensive player has a step on the defender, at least, by the time they reach the offensive-zone faceoff dots, the icing is waved off.

Here is what USCHO had:

If the official determines that the attacking player would reach the puck first, icing is waved off. A tie in the race for the puck goes to the defender, in which case icing is called.

 

[D2D]

Re: Hybrid Icing - Success or fail?

Either way I like the rule change, if only because it helps to keep the game going. Plus it does a good job of limiting opportunities for defensemen to "pretend" they're skating hard to chase down the puck as it's headed for the goal line - now they really do have to skate hard!