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Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Eeyore said:
Calling your team the "Crusaders" is identical to calling it the "Jihadists." If and only if you'd be okay with the latter can you criticize anyone for jumping on the PC bandwagon here.
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What I am ok with is a private, Catholic school choosing their own name, and if they choose to keep Crusaders then so be it. Similar issues were raised a few years ago when they thought about changing the name of the student newspaper, The Crusader. It wasn’t changed.
Besides, most people at HC call them the ‘Saders anyway ;)
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Sieve1 said:
Kind of jumping on the pc bandwagon. Most people I know in the HC community aren’t in favor or a name change. Hope they don’t change it!
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As an alum, I like the idea of changing the name.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Raging Rosaries...
Fighting Virgins...Or Fighting Nuns...
Mighty Mustard Seeds...
Bread Breakers...
Confessionals...
 
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Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Eeyore said:
Calling your team the "Crusaders" is identical to calling it the "Jihadists."
Click to expand...
"Identical" is a stretch. Crusade is a word that exists in our language for other purposes (e.g., Mom is on a crusade to get the family to eat healthier.) Yes, it does have bad connotations if you go back enough generations, and that might be a reason to change. But in a logic sense, your "if and only if" doesn't fly.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

ARM said:
"Identical" is a stretch. Crusade is a word that exists in our language for other purposes (e.g., Mom is on a crusade to get the family to eat healthier.) Yes, it does have bad connotations if you go back enough generations, and that might be a reason to change. But in a logic sense, your "if and only if" doesn't fly.
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"Jihad" has other purposes in Muslim cultures, too, many of the same alternative meanings as "crusade" has in English. And saying that it has bad connotations if you go back far enough, and holding that in opposition to "jihad" ignores that the word "crusades" continues to have exactly those connotations in other cultures. Your argument rests upon considering the question only from the point of view of largely white, largely Christian people of European descent.

Yes, identical.
 
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Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Oh my God ARM you can't be serious with this take
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Sure I can. You went to a Catholic school so you think of the Crusades. I was growing up in the 70s, so when I hear Crusaders, I think of the jazz group. I'm not saying I think it is a great name. It's just no worse than Fighting Irish, Fighting Illini, Lord Jeffs, or any other weird names that are out there that can be viewed as offensive to someone. PS -- slow down and use punctuation. ;)

As for Eeyore, it is not identical, because we aren't talking about a Muslim culture or language, so jihadist is not used for other purposes in this context. Mathematically, identical means the same in every way.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

ARM said:
Sure I can. You went to a Catholic school so you think of the Crusades. I was growing up in the 70s, so when I hear Crusaders, I think of the jazz group. I'm not saying I think it is a great name. It's just no worse than Fighting Irish, Fighting Illini, Lord Jeffs, or any other weird names that are out there that can be viewed as offensive to someone. PS -- slow down and use punctuation. ;)

As for Eeyore, it is not identical, because we aren't talking about a Muslim culture or language, so jihadist is not used for other purposes in this context. Mathematically, identical means the same in every way.
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ARM, Holy Cross isn't using it in any other context, they are using it in the context of the fking Crusades. Come on.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

ARM said:
As for Eeyore, it is not identical, because we aren't talking about a Muslim culture or language, so jihadist is not used for other purposes in this context. Mathematically, identical means the same in every way.
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Yes, it is identical. To argue otherwise is to say that these other cultures, who actually have a presence in most American states, including Massachusetts, don't matter. It is an argument to ignorance, that because Americans don't understand other cultures, that they are absolved from the consequences of what they say. There is no difference between Holy Cross calling themselves the Crusaders and a high school in Dearborn, MI or Paterson, NJ calling themselves the Jihadists.

Edit: Also, language isn't mathematics, so citing a mathematical definition of "identical" is irrelevant.
 
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Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

TonyTheTiger20 said:
ARM, Holy Cross isn't using it in any other context, they are using it in the context of the fking Crusades. Come on.
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Is their mascot something with military connotations? If so, then I think you're right that they should change their name.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Eeyore said:
Yes, it is identical. To argue otherwise is to say that these other cultures, who actually have a presence in most American states, including Massachusetts, don't matter.
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If we focus entirely on the Crusades, then I agree. I think the word itself -- all "holy" wars aside -- is actually a decent fit for what a sports team might want to symbolize. You'll never sell me on identical or if and only if, so let's agree to disagree there.

Really, we should probably get rid of all military type mascots, because there was always somebody on the other side of the combat. Warriors, Spartans, Trojans, etc.

The safest thing is to pick out a rodent for a name, and then pick a different species to model your mascot after.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

ARM said:
Is their mascot something with military connotations? If so, then I think you're right that they should change their name.
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.......................Yes.

<img src="http://news.holycross.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/crusader-mascot.jpg">

<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/Holy_Cross_Crusaders_logo.svg/1200px-Holy_Cross_Crusaders_logo.svg.png">
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Jihadists aren't troops from an organized army, they are singular or very small groups who kill others, both combatant and non-combatants, indiscriminately by killing themselves in the process. I'm sure the Crusaders did kill non-combatants, as has virtually any and all armies of the past had, but the primary goal was to defeat an enemy in an organized pitched battle, to drive them out of a geographic area, not pull a cord in their vest and kill 20 people buying produce with no hope of that event winning a war. All the Jihadists want to do is die killing someone they think is the enemy and go to heaven. That's not what the Crusaders were.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

TonyTheTiger20 said:
.......................Yes.

<img src="http://news.holycross.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/crusader-mascot.jpg">
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Okay -- although that mascot looks more like a Teletubby.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Timothy A said:
Jihadists aren't troops from an organized army, they are singular or very small groups who kill others, both combatant and non-combatants, indiscriminately by killing themselves in the process. I'm sure the Crusaders did kill non-combatants, as has virtually any and all armies of the past had, but the primary goal was to defeat an enemy in an organized pitched battle, to drive them out of a geographic area, not pull a cord in their vest and kill 20 people buying produce with no hope of that event winning a war. All the Jihadists want to do is die killing someone they think is the enemy and go to heaven. That's not what the Crusaders were.
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Oh my God.

Yeah with all due respect I'm bowing out of this argument.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

Timothy A said:
Jihadists aren't troops from an organized army, they are singular or very small groups who kill others, both combatant and non-combatants, indiscriminately by killing themselves in the process. I'm sure the Crusaders did kill non-combatants, as has virtually any and all armies of the past had, but the primary goal was to defeat an enemy in an organized pitched battle, to drive them out of a geographic area, not pull a cord in their vest and kill 20 people buying produce with no hope of that event winning a war. All the Jihadists want to do is die killing someone they think is the enemy and go to heaven. That's not what the Crusaders were.
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You need to read up on what the Popes of the day "promised" those who died fighting for the Crusade.

And somehow, holding swords over the "non believers" until they swore their allegiance to Christianity is pretty darn similar to what Jihadist do today.

Read your history.
 
Russell Jaslow said:
You need to read up on what the Popes of the day "promised" those who died fighting for the Crusade.

And somehow, holding swords over the "non believers" until they swore their allegiance to Christianity is pretty darn similar to what Jihadist do today.

Read your history.
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I think they killed more Christians (Eastern Church) than Muslims.
 
Re: Holy Cross Joining Hockey East For 2018-2019 Season

joecct said:
I think they killed more Christians (Eastern Church) than Muslims.
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Which is also a trait of the Jihadists -- they probably kill more Muslims (the whole Shiite vs. Sunni thing) than Christians.

More evidence to dispute those who think the Crusaders are not like the Jihadists.
 
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