Hobey Baker Top-10

[Dude Love]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

When was the last time an ECAC team member won it? Was it Lane MacDonald back in 1989?

1988-89 Lane MacDonald F Sr. Harvard

Didn't a St. Cloud player win it last year? They will never give it to St. Cloud two years in a row.

In World War II the best Battleship was the Bismark. However, it had no supporting cast so when the British sent their whole Navy against it, it could not win. St. Lawrence's Greg Carey playing forward for Boston College might very well have had better numbers that Johnny did, but it does not matter. The award, by elimination, is going to JG.

I am glad Carey is graduating and I am glad we do not have to face him anymore. He was IMO the best forward in the ECAC this year.

Can I buy some drugs from you?

And yes...I am Dave Starman. Ryan Lambert from Yahoo egged my house last night.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

so now it's possible that carey would have had better numbers than gaudreau if he played for bc. good stuff...don't stop sniffing that glue.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

and now we care what their major is? give me a break

You can't accept that it is not supposed to be an MVP award. Feel free to go look at the Hobey Baker website. On pretty much each of the 10 finalists they talk about GPA, or some major off ice activities. Gaudreau's bio is 100% hockey with a blurb about working with some kids group. In general, they exploit the positives. I'd like to know what his GPA is and if he was in the running for the Hockey East Student Athlete of the year or All-Academic team if there is such a thing. If its all good, he should get all the votes. Not that points seem to matter in other races, as an SLU freshmen led all d-men in points in the nation and didn't get CHN ROTY losing to Sam Anas of Q-Peck.

JD, go back and read what I said. I said I don't care that Olshansky picked three different guys and was wrong on two, the joke is that he is supposed to be on the inside picking the hobey hat trick and he didn't even mention Carey. That's a joke. His article suggests that Carey was not worthy of the Hobey Hat Trick. Don't know where he is based or what his bias is, but that seems pretty out of touch to me.

I admit that this award is no longer what it was supposed to be. Academics, and anything but hockey don't matter. It's an MVP award. They should change the criteria or they should take all the criteria seriously. Last year both Gaudreau and Carey were finalist and Carey led the nation in goals, but Gaudreau finished second. If there was some kind of scoring equation such as PWR, it would be interesting to look at that, but all that matters is what the voters think, have seen and the ability of their programs to promote them to get them in front of voters. All I know is a 3.68 at SLU is not easy to attain so that is a good accomplishment by itself. Beyond that Carey has the best wrist shot I have every seen in college hockey and is deadly from the circles in. It would not be an injustice if any of the three hat trick candidates won.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

so now it's possible that carey would have had better numbers than gaudreau if he played for bc. good stuff...don't stop sniffing that glue.

Whatever. How many times have you seen Carey play. The last time they went head to head, SLU won but Gaudreau was still in the USHL. Don't stop overlooking every single player outside of the heights.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

and you continue to talk about last year

 

[J.D.]

The last time they went head to head, SLU won but Gaudreau was still in the USHL.

i have no idea what this means

by the way i'm not overlooking carey. never said he wasn't worthy of being a finalist.

 

[TERRIERFANinLA]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

8 points in 5 games

and the team was 2-3 and his plus minus was +1 in 5 games... sounds like a keeper based on those numbers.
in the losses Johnny was -1, -3 and Even with a single goal and a single assist, in three games

he had a +/- of +3 and +2 in the wins.... so as go the Eagles, so goes Johnny

most players will tell ya it is all about how the team does, not individual stats.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

it's not an mvp award. it's a best hockey player in the country award. if you could point out ANY character flaws with gaudreau, you might have a case here.

 

[J.D.]

and the team was 2-3 and his plus minus was +1 in 5 games... sounds like a keeper based on those numbers.
in the losses Johnny was -1, -3 and Even with a single goal and a single assist, in three games

he had a +/- of +3 and +2 in the wins.... so as go the Eagles, so goes Johnny

most players will tell ya it is all about how the team does, not individual stats.

what's your point?

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

Hayes COULD have finished ahead of Johnny Hockey. remember Duncan and the hobey voting. The hobey that year went to the guy with the most points, but not the best, or second best player on his line.

Carey and Hayes MAY play in Chigago together, that will level the playing field.

Not likely. That's Carey's brother in Chicago. Greg signed with Phoenix. I only saw BC a few times this year, and it was a typical BC team with a diminutive forward with obscene point totals in the Emma, Gionta, Gerbe, etc. mold. If we are just going to give it to the guy with the most points every year, why have a vote?

The only point I am making is the 'other' criteria either matters or it doesn't. If it does, it should be a horse race. If it doesn't, congrats to JG.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

i have no idea what this means

by the way i'm not overlooking carey. never said he wasn't worthy of being a finalist.

It means I am skeptical that you have every even seen Carey play or looked at his credentials and how they fit with what the Hobey espouses to be about.

 

[TERRIERFANinLA]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

Not likely. That's Carey's brother in Chicago. Greg signed with Phoenix. I only saw BC a few times this year, and it was a typical BC team with a diminutive forward with obscene point totals in the Emma, Gionta, Gerbe, etc. mold. If we are just going to give it to the guy with the most points every year, why have a vote?

The only point I am making is the 'other' criteria either matters or it doesn't. If it does, it should be a horse race. If it doesn't, congrats to JG.

i am in total agreement.
Duncan was not only NOT the best player in college hockey the year he won it, he was the third best player on his own line.... with the most points

 

[Cross Check]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

If we are just going to give it to the guy with the most points every year, why have a vote?

There is a world of difference between the guy with the most points getting the award and the points leader having fourteen more points than the second place guy, and 20 more points than either of the other candidates. If we're talking about one guy with 58 pts and another with 55 pts and you want to argue other factors, then it is valid point. But when you are comparing a guy with 77 pts to a guy with 57 pts, it is apples and oranges.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

it's not an mvp award. it's a best hockey player in the country award. if you could point out ANY character flaws with gaudreau, you might have a case here.

And if you could point out anything that makes JG an exceptional candidate OTHER THAN HOCKEY I will shut-up. It is not the best hockey player in the country. it is supposed to be about hockey ability, academic achievement, strength of character and other non-hockey criteria. I am pretty sure most people here have realized that is my point.

 

[TERRIERFANinLA]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

what's your point?

it is SO sad that you have to ask.
a question was asked, and you have a small part of the answer. I gave some of the rest of the answer, and you have no idea what my point was.

how he did in those games is not answered simply with point production, do you not get that?

the same reason Hellybuck was not considered for the Hobey, certain numbers do not tell the whole story

 

[J.D.]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

ya, it's my fault.

i saw all five games against nd. he tied the game they lost in OT on an individual move. and ask any bc fan why they lost the QF series...mostly related to inconsistent goaltending and poor defense. i guess my question would be why do we care how he did only against nd?

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

There is a world of difference between the guy with the most points getting the award and the points leader having fourteen more points than the second place guy, and 20 more points than either of the other candidates. If we're talking about one guy with 58 pts and another with 55 pts and you want to argue other factors, then it is valid point. But when you are comparing a guy with 77 pts to a guy with 57 pts, it is apples and oranges.

Not quite. PPG is a better measure than total points, and Carey did lead in that criteria for quite a while until SLU **** the bed and went winless for almost two months. And points is not always the best criteria in the first place, thus the reason Dowd is there and Hayes isn't. So, Wayne Gretzky was the MVP back in the early 80's and scoring 200 points. Not saying he wasn't the best player. I would say that if he didn't have Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey on the ice with him all the time his point totals might have been a lot lower. Points is an easy measurement. So is +/-. I like statistics like what zone was the puck in when they stepped on the ice and what zone was it in when they finished their shift. If you are going to argue that points is the measurement of the best player, you should go watch Miracle, or look at the core of what makes a team great. Who was the leading scorer for the Bruins last year? Krecji? Who was their best player? I'd argue Bergeron. The vote is a lot more subjective than points by necessity.

 

[Patronick]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

it is SO sad that you have to ask.
a question was asked, and you have a small part of the answer. I gave some of the rest of the answer, and you have no idea what my point was.

how he did in those games is not answered simply with point production, do you not get that?

the same reason Hellybuck was not considered for the Hobey, certain numbers do not tell the whole story

He wasn't considered because he was hurt for a stretch and didn't play as many minutes as the three other goalies. It doesn't change the fact that he's the best goalie in the country.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Hobey Baker Top-10

I'm not quite sure why there is much debate about this. Johnny Gaudreau was far and away the best hockey player this season. The only time the "other" stuff is really factored in is if it's a very close race. To paraphrase a political saying, I think Gaudreau could have been caught in bed with a naked boy and a dead girl, and he'd still walk away with the Hobey Baker (okay, okay...maybe that is a bit of hyperbole). At the end of the day, nobody came close to matching Gaudreau on the ice.

I saw Carey dominate against North Dakota this season, and I saw Dowd play four seasons at St. Cloud. Maybe if they were competing against Gaudreau from last season there would be more discussion and the "other" factors would be legit talking points. This season? They should consider renaming the award after Gaudreau and change the likeness on the award to Johnny Hockey. His numbers are mind boggling.

*steps off soapbox*

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

St. Lawrence's Greg Carey playing forward for Boston College might very well have had better numbers that Johnny did.

Did you have mushrooms for lunch this afternoon?