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He's dead, Jim.
- Thread starter joecct
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MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: He's dead, Jim.
I've been Catholic for 33 years, and it confuses me as well. My mom and her brothers and sisters got into a huge fight over this when my grandfather had a stroke, regarding his feeding tube. I know she felt if they pulled the feeding tube, they were killing him vs. letting God take him when He was ready. Now, in fairness to my mom (and the sister and brothers that agreed), that is definitely what he would have wanted.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: He's dead, Jim.
This is precisely why I'm non-denominational but would go to a Lutheran church if I had to choose. (Most of the non-denominational churches I've been to are that new age thing I really dislike.)
Although, that being said, I haven't gone to church regularly in probably 20 years.
This is precisely why I'm non-denominational but would go to a Lutheran church if I had to choose. (Most of the non-denominational churches I've been to are that new age thing I really dislike.)
Although, that being said, I haven't gone to church regularly in probably 20 years.
busterman62
I got a pocket full of kryptonite
Re: He's dead, Jim.
[Saopbox] Take it from a doctor who does this kind of thing day in and day out. Find out beforehand what your family members really want if something bad happens. Let your family know what you want if you can't speak. Too many times families request futile measures out of fear and guilt. If you're in doubt, ask the Dr. what they would do for their family in the same situation. Most will tell you honestly if asked. [/Soapbox]
Actually it's the Uremia more so than the keytosis that causes the sedation, etc. Regardless, your point is correct. Renal failure is a great way to check out of this world. Sign me up. Hydration in those conditions simply prolongs the agony.
[Saopbox] Take it from a doctor who does this kind of thing day in and day out. Find out beforehand what your family members really want if something bad happens. Let your family know what you want if you can't speak. Too many times families request futile measures out of fear and guilt. If you're in doubt, ask the Dr. what they would do for their family in the same situation. Most will tell you honestly if asked. [/Soapbox]
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: He's dead, Jim.
I think I'm in the same boat as you. I'm not against church, but I'm against a whole bunch of the BS that so many churches immerse themselves in. If I actually found a church that didn't **** me off all the time, I'd have no problem going to church, but usually they're so full of themselves, and so full of bull****, that I get turned off right away.
I think I'm in the same boat as you. I'm not against church, but I'm against a whole bunch of the BS that so many churches immerse themselves in. If I actually found a church that didn't **** me off all the time, I'd have no problem going to church, but usually they're so full of themselves, and so full of bull****, that I get turned off right away.
theprofromdover
The Original Dope Detector
Re: He's dead, Jim.
Actress Ruby Dee passed away last night.
Actress Ruby Dee passed away last night.
MadTownSioux
Fighting Sioux Hockey Fan
Re: He's dead, Jim.
My father-in-law had heart surgery in his 80s and he lived to 103. That's about 20 years of additional life he got as a result. Was it "worth it"? hmm.... please leave me out of that debate, ok?
My father-in-law had heart surgery in his 80s and he lived to 103. That's about 20 years of additional life he got as a result. Was it "worth it"? hmm.... please leave me out of that debate, ok?
Re: He's dead, Jim.
okay, but what if he is physically unable of feeding himself or hydrating himself? is that a "natural" death taking place in its own time? it would be if he lived alone, no?
okay, but what if he is physically unable of feeding himself or hydrating himself? is that a "natural" death taking place in its own time? it would be if he lived alone, no?
Re: He's dead, Jim.
Often it is so hard to reconcile the medical with the religious. For Jenny and I there are some interesting permutations. I am Jewish, she is Roman catholic. But we are both medical by choice-a doctor and a nurse. The medical part for both of us will always try to do whatever is necessary to provide the best medical care that can prolong anyone who can have any sort of useful life. The religious part has us always accepting the patient's and his family's wishes as long as they fully understand what the medical options are. We both feel however, that it would be very nice to be able to choose how we all finally go. Everynight I say this little prayer-"Please let me die peacefully in my sleep. But not tonight!"
Often it is so hard to reconcile the medical with the religious. For Jenny and I there are some interesting permutations. I am Jewish, she is Roman catholic. But we are both medical by choice-a doctor and a nurse. The medical part for both of us will always try to do whatever is necessary to provide the best medical care that can prolong anyone who can have any sort of useful life. The religious part has us always accepting the patient's and his family's wishes as long as they fully understand what the medical options are. We both feel however, that it would be very nice to be able to choose how we all finally go. Everynight I say this little prayer-"Please let me die peacefully in my sleep. But not tonight!"
Re: He's dead, Jim.
Absolutely and positively agree. But it would appear that decisions like this may be taken away from us all as individuals as our omnipotent government decides for us.
Absolutely and positively agree. But it would appear that decisions like this may be taken away from us all as individuals as our omnipotent government decides for us.
busterman62
I got a pocket full of kryptonite
Re: He's dead, Jim.
Anyone who thinks rationing isn't going to happen better have their guardianship papers in order because they are clearly incompetent.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: He's dead, Jim.
OK political boys- No one has answered my question.
And rationing has already happened for years. If you are well off with insurance you get stuff (altho the insurance companies are daily finding ways to screw everyone~ the patient, the provider and the facility), if you are very not well off you get services and if you don't fit either you get nothing.
/brief moment of relapse before I remember I don't post stuff on the internet about my political views anymore/
OK political boys- No one has answered my question.
And rationing has already happened for years. If you are well off with insurance you get stuff (altho the insurance companies are daily finding ways to screw everyone~ the patient, the provider and the facility), if you are very not well off you get services and if you don't fit either you get nothing.
/brief moment of relapse before I remember I don't post stuff on the internet about my political views anymore/
Re: He's dead, Jim.
Sad story here in Phoenix as one priest is killed and another critically injured.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/justice/arizona-church-shooting/
Sad story here in Phoenix as one priest is killed and another critically injured.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/justice/arizona-church-shooting/
Re: He's dead, Jim.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that, Dr.D, but the government's efforts regarding health care have been mischaracterized at times. For example, a recent vice presidential candidate tried to scare people into thinking the government was forming "death squads" that would make life and death decisions for people, when the proposed legislation was simply an effort to get as many patients as possible to prepare advance directives (health care powers of attorney), tools that empower patients, not subjugate them.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that, Dr.D, but the government's efforts regarding health care have been mischaracterized at times. For example, a recent vice presidential candidate tried to scare people into thinking the government was forming "death squads" that would make life and death decisions for people, when the proposed legislation was simply an effort to get as many patients as possible to prepare advance directives (health care powers of attorney), tools that empower patients, not subjugate them.
Re: He's dead, Jim.
Yeah. And that same candidate was also "responsible" for Gabby Giffords getting shot in the face.
Yeah. And that same candidate was also "responsible" for Gabby Giffords getting shot in the face.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: He's dead, Jim.
It would be much better for the benevelent insurance companies to continue to decide for us.
It would be much better for the benevelent insurance companies to continue to decide for us.
Re: He's dead, Jim.
As you indicate-they have been doing that for us for years. They have been practicing medicine without a license as have so many others who determine your care.
As you indicate-they have been doing that for us for years. They have been practicing medicine without a license as have so many others who determine your care.
Re: He's dead, Jim.
My comment was in response to the sentence about asking your doctor what he would do for the his family in the situation described and that he would answer honestly. I am sure he would want to-i know i want to-but decisions have been influenced by and even made by some people who, in my mind, are practicing medicine without a license. This is nothing new at all-just more pronounced now. Not trying to start any heated discussion-just stating what I have seen in over 45 years of medical practice. Doctors, including myself, are having to make decisions on care that are influenced by many things that were not prevalent when I first started. I am not trying to turn this into a political discussion-just stating some changes that i have seen in medical practice over a long period of time. Each individual can decide for themselves whether this is for better or worse.
My comment was in response to the sentence about asking your doctor what he would do for the his family in the situation described and that he would answer honestly. I am sure he would want to-i know i want to-but decisions have been influenced by and even made by some people who, in my mind, are practicing medicine without a license. This is nothing new at all-just more pronounced now. Not trying to start any heated discussion-just stating what I have seen in over 45 years of medical practice. Doctors, including myself, are having to make decisions on care that are influenced by many things that were not prevalent when I first started. I am not trying to turn this into a political discussion-just stating some changes that i have seen in medical practice over a long period of time. Each individual can decide for themselves whether this is for better or worse.
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