Heenan Finalist for UAA job

[Ozz]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

All the snide/lame BS aside, Heenan built a program that made teams want to come to him, and while playing all his requisite road-games against the best D-3 conference in the land.

All this harping on UC's recent schedules just illustrates certain posters' ignorance of how things work when you have a successful program in place, in any sport, and at any level... (How many OOC road-games has Alabama football played recently, for example?)

Heenan is plenty savvy- and Machiavellian-enough to win in D-1, IMO. He just needs to pick his spot wisely, and perhaps employ just a little more decorum.

Comparing Utica hockey's schedule to Alabama football's schedule is comparing apples to oranges. Comparing Utica hockey's schedule to Platty's, Oswego's, Norwich's, St. Norbert, etc is much more of a reasonable comparison.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

All the snide/lame BS aside, Heenan built a program that made teams want to come to him, and while playing all his requisite road-games against the best D-3 conference in the land.

All this harping on UC's recent schedules just illustrates certain posters' ignorance of how things work when you have a successful program in place, in any sport, and at any level... (How many OOC road-games has Alabama football played recently, for example?)

Heenan is plenty savvy- and Machiavellian-enough to win in D-1, IMO. He just needs to pick his spot wisely, and perhaps employ just a little more decorum.

I need your address so I can send you a check to buy a clue....

A. Here we go chest thumping the ECAC West to the almighty (who schedule more games against cellar dweller teams then just about anybody)

B. Utica has made the NCAA's how many times remind me again? Call back when you've reached a quarter of what a Plattsburgh, Norwich, SNC, and Oswego have done.

C. Speaking of which, all said schools above have been "okay" over the past few decades compared to Utica, yet over the past 6 years they've only played 58% of their NC games at home so your "Alabama" theory is junk, go figure. 2 of those schools play a mandatory 4 home tournament games every 3 years or else the numbers would probably be even less....

D. SNC played in the toughest conference for years, yet they've played only 46% of thier NC games at home in the past 6 years. Whoops theres another Fishman theory out the window....

E. Should we get into just WHO Utica gets to come to the Aud? Curry 5 out of 6 years, Salve, Western NE, Franklin Pierce, Westfield, JnW, Nicols. That just screams talent there..... tough road games against....Oswego...yup thats about it. Let me guess top teams are afraid of Utica right? That's why you don't see them coming to the Aud?

 

[davinchi]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Heenan could build that program by increasing its ties to the community (which is strong with alums in the community but small in number) and attendance. Within three years, I bet he would have that place packed. The argument about them playing so many home games against weak competition is true but also helps the DIII game overall. The weaker teams have gotten stronger and will continue to do so with more games against top teams. Who knows if Heenan's motive is as altruistic as that but you can't deny the effect it has on the game as a whole. He is ready for DI hockey and that program could really use him. Plus, I think his press conferences would be great entertainment. He is so full of himself it is just plain hilarious, I doubt anyone gets as much one on one time with him as his own mirror.

 

[Hockeyfan2113]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Heenan could build that program by increasing its ties to the community (which is strong with alums in the community but small in number) and attendance. Within three years, I bet he would have that place packed. The argument about them playing so many home games against weak competition is true but also helps the DIII game overall. The weaker teams have gotten stronger and will continue to do so with more games against top teams. Who knows if Heenan's motive is as altruistic as that but you can't deny the effect it has on the game as a whole. He is ready for DI hockey and that program could really use him. Plus, I think his press conferences would be great entertainment. He is so full of himself it is just plain hilarious, I doubt anyone gets as much one on one time with him as his own mirror.

Altruistic? Excuse me I might die laughing before i finish this post. If you think the weaker teams that Fishman has pointed out that have come to the aud over have gotten better then I got this beautiful bridge in nyc to sell you. Heenan has had nothing to do with D3 teams getting better...I wouldn't even touch that one. But i do agree with you on his press conferences. He could be torts' replacement for us to watch until he gets hired again!

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

I need your address so I can send you a check to buy a clue....

A. Here we go chest thumping the ECAC West to the almighty (who schedule more games against cellar dweller teams then just about anybody)

B. Utica has made the NCAA's how many times remind me again? Call back when you've reached a quarter of what a Plattsburgh, Norwich, SNC, and Oswego have done.

C. Speaking of which, all said schools above have been "okay" over the past few decades compared to Utica, yet over the past 6 years they've only played 58% of their NC games at home so your "Alabama" theory is junk, go figure. 2 of those schools play a mandatory 4 home tournament games every 3 years or else the numbers would probably be even less....

D. SNC played in the toughest conference for years, yet they've played only 46% of thier NC games at home in the past 6 years. Whoops theres another Fishman theory out the window....

E. Should we get into just WHO Utica gets to come to the Aud? Curry 5 out of 6 years, Salve, Western NE, Franklin Pierce, Westfield, JnW, Nicols. That just screams talent there..... tough road games against....Oswego...yup thats about it. Let me guess top teams are afraid of Utica right? That's why you don't see them coming to the Aud?

Your post is just too endlessly clueless for me to bother to answer point-by-point, but send me the check anyway.

All you need to consider is that Utica's 2012/13 SOS was rated higher than any of the teams to which you refer via KRACH, D-3 hockey (NU Prof), and by the NCAA itself. IIRC, Utica was #1 in SOS in terms of each of those metrics.

So, there you go, home-games against cupcakes or not. (Hell, at least half of D-3 is composed of cupcakes; who do you want Utica to schedule, the Black Hawks?)

The ECAC-West gauntlet is what makes the difference, whether you want to accept that or not...

That's a fact, Einstein.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Heenan could build that program by increasing its ties to the community (which is strong with alums in the community but small in number) and attendance. Within three years, I bet he would have that place packed. The argument about them playing so many home games against weak competition is true but also helps the DIII game overall. The weaker teams have gotten stronger and will continue to do so with more games against top teams. Who knows if Heenan's motive is as altruistic as that but you can't deny the effect it has on the game as a whole. He is ready for DI hockey and that program could really use him. Plus, I think his press conferences would be great entertainment. He is so full of himself it is just plain hilarious, I doubt anyone gets as much one on one time with him as his own mirror.

I can assure you that Heenan is not particularly altruistic.

Having said that, I agree 100% with the rest of your post... He's a D-1 guy in-waiting who would run over his grandmother to win a hockey game.

I can't wait to see what he builds at whichever program hires him, and I do believe that he'll get his shot.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Comparing Utica hockey's schedule to Alabama football's schedule is comparing apples to oranges. Comparing Utica hockey's schedule to Platty's, Oswego's, Norwich's, St. Norbert, etc is much more of a reasonable comparison.

All those teams have scheduled tough OOC games on the road..?

I haven't noticed that, which was my point.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

All those teams have scheduled tough OOC games on the road..?

I haven't noticed that, which was my point.

Let me help you notice. Here are the OOC Away games for these teams for the last 5 years. This does not include neutral site games.

Platty
12-13: Skidmore, Castleton
11-12: Norwich, Middlebury x2, Williams
10-11: Skidmore
09-10: Norwich x2, Elmira, Williams, Middlebury
08-09: Skidmore

Oswego
12-13: Hobart, Elmira, Utica
11-12: Elmira, Utica, Hamilton
10-11: Elmira, Utica, Hobart
09-10: Elmira, Utica, Hamilton
08-09: Norwich, St. Norbert, Hobart

Norwich
12-13: Plattsburgh, Middlebury
11-12: None
10-11: Plattsburgh x2,
09-10: None
08-09: Middlebury, Plattsburgh

St. Norbert
12-13: Augsburg, Gustavus Adolphus
11-12: Marian, St. Olaf, St. Mary's,
10-11: Hamline, Bethel, Lake Forest,
09-10: Concordia (MI), St. John's
08-09: Lawrence, Gustavus Adolphus, St. Olaf, MSOE, St. Thomas, St. Mary's

Utica
12-13: Oswego, Cortland, Western New England
11-12: Oswego
10-11: Buffalo State, Oswego, Suffolk, Wentworth
09-10: Oswego, Hamilton
08-09: UMASS-Dartmouth

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Let me help you notice. Here are the OOC Away games for these teams for the last 5 years. This does not include neutral site games.

Platty
12-13: Skidmore, Castleton
11-12: Norwich, Middlebury x2, Williams
10-11: Skidmore
09-10: Norwich x2, Elmira, Williams, Middlebury
08-09: Skidmore

Oswego
12-13: Hobart, Elmira, Utica
11-12: Elmira, Utica, Hamilton
10-11: Elmira, Utica, Hobart
09-10: Elmira, Utica, Hamilton
08-09: Norwich, St. Norbert, Hobart

Norwich
12-13: Plattsburgh, Middlebury
11-12: None
10-11: Plattsburgh x2,
09-10: None
08-09: Middlebury, Plattsburgh

St. Norbert
12-13: Augsburg, Gustavus Adolphus
11-12: Marian, St. Olaf, St. Mary's,
10-11: Hamline, Bethel, Lake Forest,
09-10: Concordia (MI), St. John's
08-09: Lawrence, Gustavus Adolphus, St. Olaf, MSOE, St. Thomas, St. Mary's

Utica
12-13: Oswego, Cortland, Western New England
11-12: Oswego
10-11: Buffalo State, Oswego, Suffolk, Wentworth
09-10: Oswego, Hamilton
08-09: UMASS-Dartmouth

Looking at this... Looks like Norwich may be the REAL "Don't play on the road often" culprit.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Looking at this... Looks like Norwich may be the REAL "Don't play on the road often" culprit.

The more so issue with Norwich was the cycle of the Primelink plus their tournament and it was their turn to host Plattsburgh. Either or they still only had 65ish% of NC home games over 6 years compared to 75%+

 

[admiral0417]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Since when did Utica become an elite program (see Oswego, Platty, Norwich, SNC) ?? A quick look at the historical FACTS: In the past 10 seasons Utica is 163-107-26, which is OK, but nowhere near the others. 3 losing seasons (which is more than Oswego or Platty has had in their 38 years). And most importantly, 1 NCAA appearance and ZERO conference titles !!!

Maybe Utica fans should compare themselves with Stout, Babson, Geneseo instead. Thats far more accurate IMO.

 

[VT bragging rights]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Looking at this... Looks like Norwich may be the REAL "Don't play on the road often" culprit.

2011-2012 Plattsburgh & Elmira @ Middlebury PrimeLink !!

Playing Dartmouth College in a scrimmage @ Dartmouth the last two years certainly did not hurt them from making the final four.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Let me help you notice. Here are the OOC Away games for these teams for the last 5 years. This does not include neutral site games.



Oswego
12-13: Hobart, Elmira, Utica
11-12: Elmira, Utica, Hamilton
10-11: Elmira, Utica, Hobart
09-10: Elmira, Utica, Hamilton
08-09: Norwich, St. Norbert, Hobart




Utica
12-13: Oswego, Cortland, Western New England
11-12: Oswego
10-11: Buffalo State, Oswego, Suffolk, Wentworth
09-10: Oswego, Hamilton
08-09: UMASS-Dartmouth

OK, so Utica's road-games vs. the West don't count, but Oswego's do? Please...

I actually bothered to dig-up the KRACH from last year, and the top Eastern SOS teams were rated as follows:

1. Utica
2. Hobart
3. Neumann
4. M'ville
5. Norwich
6. Elmira

You've made my argument for me; thanks! To criticize the East's hardest schedule as somehow being too soft is, well, ____.
(Yes, Utica is obliged to play a difficult road-schedule by dint of being in the W, but that fact doesn't make winning those games any easier, am I right..? Who cares who they invite to The Aud, when they already play the toughest slate in the East? )

Realize that while I'm knocking your faulty reasoning, I'm not knocking OSU re: their scheduling. On the contrary, I love how they aggressively pursue the West. They don't duck anybody, and that's a real credit to the program, and makes for some great games to watch. The only reason the Lakers' SOS is not particularly stellar is that they play in the SUNYAC; it's not because they don't try to improve it by taking-on all comers. I truly admire that well-run program.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Admiral, nobody is looking back that far, aside from guys like you. I was talking 2012/2013... This is a new day.

I'm expecting Utica to remain prominent in the short-term, now that it can recruit from the OJHL, the BCHL, and other leagues north of the border. UC has had its hands tied in that regard until recently, while OSU, Platty, and every other good D-3 program was stocked with Junior-league washouts in their early-to-mid 20's. Utica, on the other hand, had to attempt to compete while dressing 18 year-olds from America. It was men vs. boys back then.

Not any more, fellas.

 

[LakerFan99]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

OK, so Utica's road-games vs. the West don't count, but Oswego's do? Please...

I actually bothered to dig-up the KRACH from last year, and the top Eastern SOS teams were rated as follows:

1. Utica
2. Hobart
3. Neumann
4. M'ville
5. Norwich
6. Elmira

You've made my argument for me; thanks! To criticize the East's hardest schedule as somehow being too soft is, well, ____.
(Yes, Utica is obliged to play a difficult road-schedule by dint of being in the W, but that fact doesn't make winning those games any easier, am I right..? Who cares who they invite to The Aud, when they already play the toughest slate in the East? )

Realize that while I'm knocking your faulty reasoning, I'm not knocking OSU re: their scheduling. On the contrary, I love how they aggressively pursue the West. They don't duck anybody, and that's a real credit to the program, and makes for some great games to watch. The only reason the Lakers' SOS is not particularly stellar is that they play in the SUNYAC; it's not because they don't try to improve it by taking-on all comers. I truly admire that well-run program.

Remind me again, who said "I don't put much faith in KRACH" after Utica lost in the semis? Oh yes.

KRACH is the almighty, except when Utica loses...

 

[Ozz]

OK, so Utica's road-games vs. the West don't count, but Oswego's do? Please...

I actually bothered to dig-up the KRACH from last year, and the top Eastern SOS teams were rated as follows:

1. Utica
2. Hobart
3. Neumann
4. M'ville
5. Norwich
6. Elmira

You've made my argument for me; thanks! To criticize the East's hardest schedule as somehow being too soft is, well, ____.
(Yes, Utica is obliged to play a difficult road-schedule by dint of being in the W, but that fact doesn't make winning those games any easier, am I right..? Who cares who they invite to The Aud, when they already play the toughest slate in the East? )

Realize that while I'm knocking your faulty reasoning, I'm not knocking OSU re: their scheduling. On the contrary, I love how they aggressively pursue the West. They don't duck anybody, and that's a real credit to the program, and makes for some great games to watch. The only reason the Lakers' SOS is not particularly stellar is that they play in the SUNYAC; it's not because they don't try to improve it by taking-on all comers. I truly admire that well-run program.

When talking about OOC games, Utica's games against ECAC-W teams do not count and Oswego's do. This conversation has been strictly about OOC games, if you want to bring up the total schedule, that's a different conversation. But much like your opinion on KRACH has bounced back and forth, you use arguments that are convenient at the time..

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

When talking about OOC games, Utica's games against ECAC-W teams do not count and Oswego's do. This conversation has been strictly about OOC games, if you want to bring up the total schedule, that's a different conversation. But much like your opinion on KRACH has bounced back and forth, you use arguments that are convenient at the time..

That's Fishman's motto. He has it tattooed on his forehead.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Laker Fan, never said that in the context of the East... I said something like "The KRACH is not a religion."

I still think it's the most useful of all the dubious D-3 metrics, if only due to its transparency, and I'd be happy to hear a cogent argument to the contrary... There is nothing else better than it out there right now.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

Ozz, a tough road-game is a tough road-game, and Utica plays plenty of them every year. To sort them out in terms of whether they're OOC or not is making a distinction without a difference.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Heenan Finalist for UAA job

OK, Russell, who do you think played the toughest schedule in the East last year? And which metric do you find most accurate? I'm curious as to how you'll spin this.