Has UND lost in conference realignment?

[Osorojo]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Didn't you just call me stupid?

Nope. I believe you were mistaken and I tried to show why - without derogatory language or disrespect.

 

[Mike Rane]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Oh Parise, I fall asleep and wake up to this defecation...

Why, why, why,........

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

This is why I wondered since the day the NCHC was announced that SCSU wasn't begged to join the league (but rather invited very late). The NCHC needs to come a close second to the B1G in Minnesota. In my opinion, that goal should have been a higher one than recruiting Miami or even Notre Dame. Minnesota can at least ensure depth of talent...if the leagues talent drops off, that could spell trouble.

To answer the question about SCSU & Duluth joining the NCHC you have to go back to March of 2011 when the new league was being conceived.

Notre Dame was driving the push for the new league and they wanted to bring BC along. BC was listening, because as I heard it, Jerry York was upset about the B1G forming & Notre Dame was leading the discussion. The rumor was that another eastern school would join with BC.

At the same time [March 2011] Duluth & SCSU made it very clear that they weren't interested because of the costs involved.

So in March of 2011 the Super League was projected to be Notre Dame, Miami, DU, CC, BC, North Dakota, UNO & an unnamed eastern school. All D-1 universities [except CC], each having a logical travel partner & each with a significant hockey commitment.

Within 30 days or so there was the secret meeting at the Chicago Airport Hilton, basically hosted by Notre Dame, attended by the AD's and hockey reps of various schools. Not sure if BC attended that meeting.

Sometime between March & July, Duluth changed their mind & wanted in, BC got cold feet & Notre Dame started to realize that an impending football conference decision might impact hockey.

In July, 2011 the NCHC dropped the bombshell that the league was forming, and it was understood that Notre Dame was just a formality to join the original six. Even after ND joined Hockey East, the NCHC AD's were under the impression that Notre Dame would jump back to the NCHC within a couple of years to enhance their recruiting footprint.

As it turned out Notre Dame's ACC move pretty much sealed the deal for ND & BC hockey remaining together. It also explained why Notre Dame, after doing much of the legwork to form the new league, dragged their feet for so long.

Another sidenote, during this period was that Notre Dame was being wooed by Texas & OU to join the Big 12. The carrot being Notre Dame could keep the NBC contract as Texas & OU had private cable deals. Believe it or not, Texas Tech put out feelers to the NCHC.

Its also important to note that Notre Dame had wanted to form a new hockey super conference for several years before 2011, but for whatever reason, couldn't get it done. DU & CC were casually involved in those discussions.

Everyone thinks that North Dakota & DU formed the NCHC, but the initial discussions were driven by Notre Dame; and CC was heavily involved.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Believe it or not, Texas Tech put out feelers to the NCHC.

Now that is a new angle.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Very interesting perspective, and not surprising that ND was behind a lot of this stuff, they love getting their noses involved in things. I assume that unnamed eastern school would likely have been BU since it's been reported that both BU and BC turned down invites to the NCHC at some point, and BU would be the most logical other eastern school except for maybe UNH.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

I really really hate to defend the Cornell, but it would not surprise me if their following was at least the equal of North Dakota's. The schools are about the same size, and hockey is Cornell's number one sport. Most of their fans like to stay on their own board, where they can stroke their egos uninterrupted by others, rather than come here.

Based on what I saw in Buffalo in 2003 for Cornell vs. what I saw in St. Louis and Denver for UND in 2007/2008 (a lot further than Ithaca to Buffalo), I'm going to say this is crazy talk.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

We will see if this image works. It is from the Bemidji Pioneer series on the BSU Athletic Department funding and a look at the other NSIC schools with SCSU, UMD and MSU-Mankato's budgets that include hockey expenditures. Mankato actually throws more money around than SCSU or UMD, but they also offer more sports than UMD.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

There is no doubt that UND is one of the elite hockey programs in the country - unarguably in the top ten most elite programs, being the 2nd most attended college program after Wisconsin since the Ralph opened (first this year), and being the most winning WCHA program over the past ten years (according to the Grand Forks Herald).

However, I believe that UND has lost big time in conference realignment.

Allow me to quantify an estimated revenue loss for UND. 11,000 x 20 x 2 = $440,000 dollars in revenue. That is the revenue from two extra home games UND was able to host by virtue of being in the WCHA.

UND Hockey:: We make more money than Cornell!!!

 

[Dirty]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

A small price to pay to rid themselves of Bruce McLeod.

UAA Hockey: We make more money than American International!!! We think.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

A small price to pay to rid themselves of Bruce McLeod.

UAA Hockey: We make more money than American International!!! We think.

A half a million dollars is chump change in college hockey!!!

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

I hate saying it, but UND's fanbase is similar to the GB Packers' fanbase. THEY. ARE. EVERYWHERE. And there are a ton of them.

Sheesh. There were a ton of Fighting Sioux jerseys in evidence at the Icebreaker in Kansas City in October and they weren't even playing in the darn thing. My wife, to me, on opening night of the tourney: "I didn't know North Dakota was in this".

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe North Dakota's games outside the ones broadcast on CBSSN will no longer be visible outside their home market any longer. New TV deal was a bad one for UND in my opinion.

I don't know if Omaha is part of their "home market" or not but I get their games here on Direct TV on Fox Sports North.

 

[Biddco]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

To answer the question about SCSU & Duluth joining the NCHC you have to go back to March of 2011 when the new league was being conceived.

Notre Dame was driving the push for the new league and they wanted to bring BC along. BC was listening, because as I heard it, Jerry York was upset about the B1G forming & Notre Dame was leading the discussion. The rumor was that another eastern school would join with BC.

At the same time [March 2011] Duluth & SCSU made it very clear that they weren't interested because of the costs involved.

So in March of 2011 the Super League was projected to be Notre Dame, Miami, DU, CC, BC, North Dakota, UNO & an unnamed eastern school. All D-1 universities [except CC], each having a logical travel partner & each with a significant hockey commitment.

Within 30 days or so there was the secret meeting at the Chicago Airport Hilton, basically hosted by Notre Dame, attended by the AD's and hockey reps of various schools. Not sure if BC attended that meeting.

Sometime between March & July, Duluth changed their mind & wanted in, BC got cold feet & Notre Dame started to realize that an impending football conference decision might impact hockey.

In July, 2011 the NCHC dropped the bombshell that the league was forming, and it was understood that Notre Dame was just a formality to join the original six. Even after ND joined Hockey East, the NCHC AD's were under the impression that Notre Dame would jump back to the NCHC within a couple of years to enhance their recruiting footprint.

As it turned out Notre Dame's ACC move pretty much sealed the deal for ND & BC hockey remaining together. It also explained why Notre Dame, after doing much of the legwork to form the new league, dragged their feet for so long.

Another sidenote, during this period was that Notre Dame was being wooed by Texas & OU to join the Big 12. The carrot being Notre Dame could keep the NBC contract as Texas & OU had private cable deals. Believe it or not, Texas Tech put out feelers to the NCHC.

Its also important to note that Notre Dame had wanted to form a new hockey super conference for several years before 2011, but for whatever reason, couldn't get it done. DU & CC were casually involved in those discussions.

Everyone basically thinks that North Dakota & DU formed the NCHC, but the initial discussions were driven by Notre Dame; and CC was heavily involved.

Cue someone calling this all BS...in...3...2....1

My sources say that if the original participants would have formed a league it would have been nicknamed "The Super Duper League". But after the original six formed they just went with the more modest "Super League".

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I don't know if Omaha is part of their "home market" or not but I get their games here on Direct TV on Fox Sports North.

Will change once the CBSSN deal kicks in next year. They won't be able to broadcast any games outside their local market besides the games carried by CBSSN once that deal kicks in. That means their national visibility will diminish significantly compared to where it is now.

Tom Miller, Grand Forks Herald --- As has been the case for the past few seasons, Midcontinent’s UND broadcasts will be available for Fox College Sports to broadcast nationwide.

That will change in the 2013-14 men’s hockey season when UND joins the National Collegiate Hockey Conference. The NCHC’s television contract with CBS College Sports gives CBS national exclusivity for national broadcasts.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Cue someone calling this all BS...in...3...2....1

My sources say that if the original participants would have formed a league it would have been nicknamed "The Super Duper League". But after the original six formed they just went with the more modest "Super League".

Agreed. As soon as he cites his sources I will recognize an ounce of what he said as fact. Not saying he isn't right, but I haven't heard any of that.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

So in March of 2011 the Super League was projected to be Notre Dame, Miami, DU, CC, BC, North Dakota, UNO & an unnamed eastern school. All D-1 universities [except CC], each having a logical travel partner & each with a significant hockey commitment.

Within 30 days or so there was the secret meeting at the Chicago Airport Hilton, basically hosted by Notre Dame, attended by the AD's and hockey reps of various schools. Not sure if BC attended that meeting.

Sometime between March & July, Duluth changed their mind & wanted in, BC got cold feet & Notre Dame started to realize that an impending football conference decision might impact hockey.

In July, 2011 the NCHC dropped the bombshell that the league was forming, and it was understood that Notre Dame was just a formality to join the original six. Even after ND joined Hockey East, the NCHC AD's were under the impression that Notre Dame would jump back to the NCHC within a couple of years to enhance their recruiting footprint.

As it turned out Notre Dame's ACC move pretty much sealed the deal for ND & BC hockey remaining together. It also explained why Notre Dame, after doing much of the legwork to form the new league, dragged their feet for so long.

Another sidenote, during this period was that Notre Dame was being wooed by Texas & OU to join the Big 12. The carrot being Notre Dame could keep the NBC contract as Texas & OU had private cable deals. Believe it or not, Texas Tech put out feelers to the NCHC.

Its also important to note that Notre Dame had wanted to form a new hockey super conference for several years before 2011, but for whatever reason, couldn't get it done. DU & CC were casually involved in those discussions.

Everyone basically thinks that North Dakota & DU formed the NCHC, but the initial discussions were driven by Notre Dame; and CC was heavily involved.

Could well be right. But New England, MI and MN are very fical. Without BC, big MI schools, UMD or SCSU...any other collection of schools would have had a serious uphill battle filling their roster from Ohio, CA and Canada. While I might be wondering a bit if I were UND under current circumstances...I would be ready for a serious blow without the big three recruiting grounds in my conference footprint. And Notre Dame would have went down with that ship.

IMO retaining UMD and SCSU will help retain depth to NCHC rosters.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Could well be right. But New England, MI and MN are very fical. Without BU, big MI schools, UMD or SCSU...any other collection of schools would have had a serious uphill battle filling their roster from Ohio, CA and Canada. While I might be wondering a bit if I were UND under current circumstances...I would be ready for a serious blow without the big three recruiting grounds in my conference footprint. And Notre Dame would have went down with that ship.

IMO retaining UMD and SCSU will help retain depth to NCHC rosters.

Those NCHC schools not named UMD and SCSU have relatively few Minnesota players on their roster. DU, CC, WMU and Miami have just 8 between them. UND and UNO have 6 each. As long as Dean Blais is at UNO they will have no trouble recruiting in Minnesota. UND, just because of it's geographic location and it's history will always be able to pick up the 4-6 Minnesota kids they have on their roster each year, whether they play UMD and SCSU, or not.

I really don't understand the whole seismic shift in recruiting theory that's going around as a result of the conference shifts. I don't see recruiting affected one bit.

Minnesota, Michigan, and to a large extent Wisconsin and Michigan State have always had the pick of the recruits. That's not going to change, for good or for bad.

That means we are literally talking about the recruiting of two teams, Ohio St. and Penn St. The theory seems to be these two schools will now, as a result of the formation of the BTHC, steal elite recruits from DU, UND, UMD and CC (although apparently not from ND, BU, BC, MN, MI, MSU or Wis), resulting in a two conference sport.

Can anyone point to any example where that has happened in collegiate sports? And if this is what happens, can someone explain to me why the Minnesota football team is left with those recruits from Minnesota that "elite" teams, and NDSU, don't want? Or why for the life of me I can't name a single player in the NFL who ever played for Kentucky? Or why I never seem to hear the names of the "elite" players from Washington St. called when I watch the NBA draft?

Granted, I've never been recruited as a major college athlete. But I personally wouldn't find appealing the pitch, "come to our school kid and you get to be thrashed weekly by the best in the college game."

Like the original poster, I am a UND fan. I was also disappointed in the Big 10's decision, and not in favor of the formation of the NCHC.

But not because I believe any school will receive some advantage, or for that matter, be harmed by this change. Mine was purely a selfish reason. The loss of conference away games much closer to where I live. The loss of a great conference tournament close to where I live. The loss of long time rivals. But that's something all current WCHA and CCHA fans are about to lose, so we're in the same boat.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Agreed. As soon as he cites his sources I will recognize an ounce of what he said as fact. Not saying he isn't right, but I haven't heard any of that.

Wasn't aware that one had to provide a bibliography for hacks like you.

Star-Trib blogger Roman Augustovitz, CC play-by-play radio's Ken Landau & Mike Chambers of the Denver Post as well as most everybody at the 2011 WCHA Media Function/party [UND beat DU in OT] heard the super conference rumors after the Final 5 championship game on March 19, 2011.

On March 21, 2011 the B1G hockey conference was officially announced.

March 22, 2011 Roman wrote a blurb in his blog briefly mentioning the Notre Dame angle that I detailed earlier. Roman was at the WCHA function when everyone heard about the possible super conference for the first time.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/118407989.html

Some high-profile teams such as Notre Dame and Miami (Ohio) of the CCHA, and North Dakota and Denver of the WCHA could break off with other teams and form a "superconference."

 

[HoosierBBall_GopherHockey]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Those NCHC schools not named UMD and SCSU have relatively few Minnesota players on their roster. DU, CC, WMU and Miami have just 8 between them. UND and UNO have 6 each. As long as Dean Blais is at UNO they will have no trouble recruiting in Minnesota. UND, just because of it's geographic location and it's history will always be able to pick up the 4-6 Minnesota kids they have on their roster each year, whether they play UMD and SCSU, or not.

I really don't understand the whole seismic shift in recruiting theory that's going around as a result of the conference shifts. I don't see recruiting affected one bit.

Minnesota, Michigan, and to a large extent Wisconsin and Michigan State have always had the pick of the recruits. That's not going to change, for good or for bad.

That means we are literally talking about the recruiting of two teams, Ohio St. and Penn St. The theory seems to be these two schools will now, as a result of the formation of the BTHC, steal elite recruits from DU, UND, UMD and CC (although apparently not from ND, BU, BC, MN, MI, MSU or Wis), resulting in a two conference sport.

Can anyone point to any example where that has happened in collegiate sports? And if this is what happens, can someone explain to me why the Minnesota football team is left with those recruits from Minnesota that "elite" teams, and NDSU, don't want? Or why for the life of me I can't name a single player in the NFL who ever played for Kentucky? Or why I never seem to hear the names of the "elite" players from Washington St. called when I watch the NBA draft?

Granted, I've never been recruited as a major college athlete. But I personally wouldn't find appealing the pitch, "come to our school kid and you get to be thrashed weekly by the best in the college game."

Like the original poster, I am a UND fan. I was also disappointed in the Big 10's decision, and not in favor of the formation of the NCHC.

But not because I believe any school will receive some advantage, or for that matter, be harmed by this change. Mine was purely a selfish reason. The loss of conference away games much closer to where I live. The loss of a great conference tournament close to where I live. The loss of long time rivals. But that's something all current WCHA and CCHA fans are about to lose, so we're in the same boat.

Randall Cobb of Green Bay, and he's pretty good. IU, one of the crappiest FBS teams in the history of football, currently has something like 6 NFL players.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Wasn't aware that one had to provide a bibliography for hacks like you.

Star-Trib blogger Roman Augustovitz, CC play-by-play radio's Ken Landau & Mike Chambers of the Denver Post as well as most everybody at the 2011 WCHA Media Function/party [UND beat DU in OT] heard the super conference rumors after the Final 5 championship game on March 19, 2011.

On March 21, 2011 the B1G hockey conference was officially announced.

March 22, 2011 Roman wrote a blurb in his blog briefly mentioning the Notre Dame angle that I detailed earlier. Roman was at the WCHA function when everyone heard about the possible super conference for the first time.

So Roman is your key source for this info? Yikes!