Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/almanac/attendance.php
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Has UND lost in conference realignment?
- Thread starter Sioux_fan
- Start date
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/almanac/attendance.php
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
All that proves is that North Dakota's arena has more seats than Lynah and that the fire marshalls don't care if the place is filled above capacity. It doesn't say much about how many fans they have. I suspect that many schools have more than 11750 fans in total.
All that proves is that North Dakota's arena has more seats than Lynah and that the fire marshalls don't care if the place is filled above capacity. It doesn't say much about how many fans they have. I suspect that many schools have more than 11750 fans in total.
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manurespreader
Still upright
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
You have to be careful of assuming too much down the line and many people here seem to be doing that.
1. the coaches I know, and I know a few, all are absolutely adamant that realignment will not hurt recruiting even a little bit, FOR ANYONE. You can disagree certainly, but most likely you are not in a position to know.
2. it is very, very easy to fall off the top and it's a slippery slope to get back up, as others have pointed out.As an example, Michigan football fired the coach and got in a new one that was more exciting, the next thing you know, they are trying mightily to get back to a top team and four years later haven't done it. So every team, no matter who, will have their time at the top and their time at the bottom. You can bank it.
3. College hockey in general is not a high interest sport and as such the ratings are pathetic and will remain pathetic. The few fans who are interested are generally in the rink, further depressing ratings. In other words, any money that comes in from tv will be pathetic. Advertisers don't pay for pathetic showings no matter what is on. Will the big ten get extra money from the big ten network, sure but the marginal revenue from hockey will not be big. Will the nchc get a big bump... no.
4. The ship has already sailed, worrying about it now is kind of a waste of time.
I think there are a lot of good things going on in college hockey, but this was not one of them. As Almington said, everyone is going to suffer here, some more than others, but everyone will suffer to some extent, and I agree with that.
You have to be careful of assuming too much down the line and many people here seem to be doing that.
1. the coaches I know, and I know a few, all are absolutely adamant that realignment will not hurt recruiting even a little bit, FOR ANYONE. You can disagree certainly, but most likely you are not in a position to know.
2. it is very, very easy to fall off the top and it's a slippery slope to get back up, as others have pointed out.As an example, Michigan football fired the coach and got in a new one that was more exciting, the next thing you know, they are trying mightily to get back to a top team and four years later haven't done it. So every team, no matter who, will have their time at the top and their time at the bottom. You can bank it.
3. College hockey in general is not a high interest sport and as such the ratings are pathetic and will remain pathetic. The few fans who are interested are generally in the rink, further depressing ratings. In other words, any money that comes in from tv will be pathetic. Advertisers don't pay for pathetic showings no matter what is on. Will the big ten get extra money from the big ten network, sure but the marginal revenue from hockey will not be big. Will the nchc get a big bump... no.
4. The ship has already sailed, worrying about it now is kind of a waste of time.
I think there are a lot of good things going on in college hockey, but this was not one of them. As Almington said, everyone is going to suffer here, some more than others, but everyone will suffer to some extent, and I agree with that.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
I cannot speak for Cornell, but North Dakota hockey has a following that stretches far beyond alumni. Pretty much the whole state follows the team. Heck, even a good chunk of Minnesota, South Dakota, and Montana follow the team. Then of course you also have a decent following in Manitoba.
As for boards, I'm sure you're aware of Siouxsports...which appears to have a similar function as the Cornell Board.
I cannot speak for Cornell, but North Dakota hockey has a following that stretches far beyond alumni. Pretty much the whole state follows the team. Heck, even a good chunk of Minnesota, South Dakota, and Montana follow the team. Then of course you also have a decent following in Manitoba.
As for boards, I'm sure you're aware of Siouxsports...which appears to have a similar function as the Cornell Board.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
I can't believe that I wasted my time tracing the source of this quote "Cornell, would probably have a large cadre of supporters if the game was held in Vladivostok." which often gets paraphrased on eLynah.
I do agree that Cornell probably has a very small fanbase of people who don't have a connection to the school, probably due to Ithaca being so small. RPI has a lot of posters on USCHO who are locals, but I can't think of a single poster either here or on eLynah who is a fan and doesn't have some past or present connection to Cornell.
I can't believe that I wasted my time tracing the source of this quote "Cornell, would probably have a large cadre of supporters if the game was held in Vladivostok." which often gets paraphrased on eLynah.
I do agree that Cornell probably has a very small fanbase of people who don't have a connection to the school, probably due to Ithaca being so small. RPI has a lot of posters on USCHO who are locals, but I can't think of a single poster either here or on eLynah who is a fan and doesn't have some past or present connection to Cornell.
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willythekid
New member
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
If Cornell's fanbase could fill a 10,000 seat arena on a regular basis, why wouldn't the school build one? How many of Cornell's games are on a network that can be seen all over the country?
What it proves it that the hockey program at UND makes a hell of a lot more money than the one at Cornell, and maybe even more than both Cornell and Michigan combined. Osorojo can point to one game where Cornell made more money in one game than North Dakota did in any of their games and is trying to use that to act like UND is small potatoes. That is idiotic.
If Cornell's fanbase could fill a 10,000 seat arena on a regular basis, why wouldn't the school build one? How many of Cornell's games are on a network that can be seen all over the country?
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe North Dakota's games outside the ones broadcast on CBSSN will no longer be visible outside their home market any longer. New TV deal was a bad one for UND in my opinion.
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
Size matters, and so does venue. CU's student enrollment is 39% greater than U.N.D.. The combined enrollment of U.M. + C.U. is 90% greater than the combined enrollment of S.C.S.U. + U.N.D., which results in a large differences in the number of alumni. Madison Square Garden sold out (18,200) for the C.U.-U.M. game, and MSG tickets are appreciably more expensive than Ralph's tickets, even though college hockey has some competition on a Saturday night in New York City. Furthermore, MSG has its own subscription T.V. network, and C.U. and U.M. profited from T.V. exposure in more ways than one. These facts validate my claim of ". . . more revenue for each participating team . . ." - and I didn't have to call anyone "dumb" to make my case.
Size matters, and so does venue. CU's student enrollment is 39% greater than U.N.D.. The combined enrollment of U.M. + C.U. is 90% greater than the combined enrollment of S.C.S.U. + U.N.D., which results in a large differences in the number of alumni. Madison Square Garden sold out (18,200) for the C.U.-U.M. game, and MSG tickets are appreciably more expensive than Ralph's tickets, even though college hockey has some competition on a Saturday night in New York City. Furthermore, MSG has its own subscription T.V. network, and C.U. and U.M. profited from T.V. exposure in more ways than one. These facts validate my claim of ". . . more revenue for each participating team . . ." - and I didn't have to call anyone "dumb" to make my case.
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
So now explain how that one Cornell/Michigan game outdrawing a hypothetical UND/SCSU game at Target Center has anything to do with UND losing something in conference alignment. I never disputed your claim that that game made money. I dispute that either of those programs make more than UND's does. I dispute that your enrollment numbers mean anything to the hockey program if they don't translate to the alumni going to the games. I dispute that your post had anything to do with what was being discussed in this thread.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
The only ones I read on a regular basis are Cornell's and Clarkson's since, to the best of my knowledge, they are the only ECAC team hockey boards. I read others, e.g. Siouxsports, only when someone posts an intersting link or they turn up on a Google search.As for boards, I'm sure you're aware of Siouxsports...which appears to have a similar function as the Cornell Board.
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JDUBBS1280
MN Hockey Enthusiast
I agree. For a school their size, they have a lot of fans.
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
The central point of the first post on this thread: ". . . I fear that UND could slowly become less relevant in hockey, and it's already something coming into effect." I tried to stick to this subject, citing facts about increasing revenue, alumni fan base, and T.V. coverage as examples of the primary influences I see influencing the economic and competitive future of college hockey. I hope the UND program and other traditional college powers continue to be competitive, but I don't see how dissing other leagues, other teams, other fans, or other posters will help this happen.
The central point of the first post on this thread: ". . . I fear that UND could slowly become less relevant in hockey, and it's already something coming into effect." I tried to stick to this subject, citing facts about increasing revenue, alumni fan base, and T.V. coverage as examples of the primary influences I see influencing the economic and competitive future of college hockey. I hope the UND program and other traditional college powers continue to be competitive, but I don't see how dissing other leagues, other teams, other fans, or other posters will help this happen.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
Uhh. I'll have to puzzle that out.
Back later.
Than what? Trees?
Uhh. I'll have to puzzle that out.
Back later.
huskyfan
New member
George Gwozdecky?
Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?
This thread has been why the power schools in the WCHA have been nervous about the B1G all along.
The big question at stake here is whether TV will result in the likes of OSU outrecruiting the likes of UND. This is why I wondered since the day the NCHC was announced that SCSU wasn't begged to join the league (but rather invited very late). The NCHC needs to come a close second to the B1G in Minnesota. In my opinion, that goal should have been a higher one than recruiting Miami or even Notre Dame. Minnesota can at least ensure depth of talent...if the leagues talent drops off, that could spell trouble.
This thread has been why the power schools in the WCHA have been nervous about the B1G all along.
The big question at stake here is whether TV will result in the likes of OSU outrecruiting the likes of UND. This is why I wondered since the day the NCHC was announced that SCSU wasn't begged to join the league (but rather invited very late). The NCHC needs to come a close second to the B1G in Minnesota. In my opinion, that goal should have been a higher one than recruiting Miami or even Notre Dame. Minnesota can at least ensure depth of talent...if the leagues talent drops off, that could spell trouble.