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Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
- Thread starter Veritas
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e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Good luck with that! But you're right. Sounds like some changes are needed. I expected more from a Donato coached team.
Good luck with that! But you're right. Sounds like some changes are needed. I expected more from a Donato coached team.
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Ya when they cut to him in the locker room before the game to hear him speak it seemed like there was no conviction/fire. It was all cliche/common things for a coach to say, seemed really hollow.
As a result of Yale winning the national championship and Quinnipiac being in the finals, does it put more pressure on them to make a change? It's not like it isn't a question of talent, because Harvard has more than enough to compete in my book. Although I'm a BC guy, but Im Boston born and hate to see a program with so much potential drift in a place of mediocrity if you could even call it that. Would be really fun to have BC, BU, Harvard, and Northeastern all in the NCAA's at some point.
Just think George Gwozdecky makes too much sense, former coach of Denver and current Tampa Bay Lightning assistant coach. 443-267-64 record with 2 national championships , 12 NCAA appearances in 19 years at Denver.
Ya when they cut to him in the locker room before the game to hear him speak it seemed like there was no conviction/fire. It was all cliche/common things for a coach to say, seemed really hollow.
As a result of Yale winning the national championship and Quinnipiac being in the finals, does it put more pressure on them to make a change? It's not like it isn't a question of talent, because Harvard has more than enough to compete in my book. Although I'm a BC guy, but Im Boston born and hate to see a program with so much potential drift in a place of mediocrity if you could even call it that. Would be really fun to have BC, BU, Harvard, and Northeastern all in the NCAA's at some point.
Just think George Gwozdecky makes too much sense, former coach of Denver and current Tampa Bay Lightning assistant coach. 443-267-64 record with 2 national championships , 12 NCAA appearances in 19 years at Denver.
Split-N
All Hail
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
More to the point, is Harvard willing to look the other way at some of his recruiting shenanigans and admit the type of kid he's likely to bring in? Oh wait, aren't they already doing that with Amaker?
More to the point, is Harvard willing to look the other way at some of his recruiting shenanigans and admit the type of kid he's likely to bring in? Oh wait, aren't they already doing that with Amaker?
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Just curious, was unaware of recruiting issues with Gwoz? Just knew he was one of the best recruiters in the country and was able to actually convince really good players to come without scholarships to a school that costs $40,000+ a year. From everything I've seen, he was lauded for having such a clean record of recruiting.
Just curious, was unaware of recruiting issues with Gwoz? Just knew he was one of the best recruiters in the country and was able to actually convince really good players to come without scholarships to a school that costs $40,000+ a year. From everything I've seen, he was lauded for having such a clean record of recruiting.
FiveHole12
Registered User
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Mazzoleni was at Harvard for 5 years. In his first 2 seasons, he brought a sub .500 program to .500 or better. In his last 3 seasons, Mazzoleni won 2 ECAC tournament titles and his team appeared in 3 straight NCAA tournaments. The year he was fired, Harvard went 18-15-3, won the ECAC tournament title and took his team to the NCAA big dance.
Ted Donato is in his 10th year as coach at Harvard, replacing Mark Mazzoleni in the 2004-2005 season. In Donato's first 2 seasons, with Mazzoleni's players, Donato won the ECAC tournament title once and appeared in 2 NCAA tournaments. He has not had a sniff of either since the 2005-2006 season.
Harvard Hockey History
FWIW, it seems pretty clear that the writing is on the wall. With the exception of Skate79, I don't see any Harvard regulars in here bemoaning the accomplishments, or lack thereof, of head coach Ted Donato and his hockey team. There's no egregious situation and no firestorm from parents or alumni. It appears to me that this is Ted Donato's job for as long as he wants it.
Just my observations.
I'm curious as to why Mark Mazzoleni was fired after 5 seasons? Was it an egregious situation, or a firestorm from parents? (or, firestorm from alums?)
Mazzoleni was at Harvard for 5 years. In his first 2 seasons, he brought a sub .500 program to .500 or better. In his last 3 seasons, Mazzoleni won 2 ECAC tournament titles and his team appeared in 3 straight NCAA tournaments. The year he was fired, Harvard went 18-15-3, won the ECAC tournament title and took his team to the NCAA big dance.
Ted Donato is in his 10th year as coach at Harvard, replacing Mark Mazzoleni in the 2004-2005 season. In Donato's first 2 seasons, with Mazzoleni's players, Donato won the ECAC tournament title once and appeared in 2 NCAA tournaments. He has not had a sniff of either since the 2005-2006 season.
Harvard Hockey History
FWIW, it seems pretty clear that the writing is on the wall. With the exception of Skate79, I don't see any Harvard regulars in here bemoaning the accomplishments, or lack thereof, of head coach Ted Donato and his hockey team. There's no egregious situation and no firestorm from parents or alumni. It appears to me that this is Ted Donato's job for as long as he wants it.
Just my observations.
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Mazz wasn't fired. He chose to leave because he took a job with the Green Bay Gamblers of the USHL. A friend of his was the GM there. Mazz had been in talks with them shortly after the '04 season and the deal got done pretty quickly.
There were parents who were upset with him - one parent in particular that I got to know very well who detailed to me what went on in practice that bordered on the absurd. And humiliating for the player. Mazz never did adjust to coaching in the ECAC and was never comfortable with Ivy academics including the AI. He ruffled some feathers with the athletic department along the way. I don't know if any alums protested to Bob Scalise but I do know that after he left, I was one of several who signed a letter asking Bob to consider Teddy or Ron Rolston as our next head coach.
True. He did come in and got us to the NCAAs. And we won two ECAC tournaments on his watch. But we constantly underachieved and the problems with players kept surfacing year after year. Obviously you are not going to please everyone all the time but the complaints were justified and the talent was wasted year after year.
Not quite. In '08, we went to the ECAC tournament final losing to Princeton and in '12, we went to the final again losing to Union. There's no question that Teddy has failed to build on his early years and that has a lot of people, myself included, pretty frustrated. But you have to give him credit where it is due and in those two years, they surprised people by going to the tournament final.
I think that other Harvard alums and those connected with the University have weighed in from time to time. Let's face it, the program has fallen into the abyss and the losing is hard to take after a while. How many times can you berate someone or the program before it falls on deaf ears? If Teddy wasn't such a good guy (and he is because I've known him since he was at Harvard), there probably would be a firestorm. But it is hard to keep pounding on someone who clearly loves the game and has strong feelings about his alma mater. That said, after Monday's debacle, something has to give.
Mazz wasn't fired. He chose to leave because he took a job with the Green Bay Gamblers of the USHL. A friend of his was the GM there. Mazz had been in talks with them shortly after the '04 season and the deal got done pretty quickly.
There were parents who were upset with him - one parent in particular that I got to know very well who detailed to me what went on in practice that bordered on the absurd. And humiliating for the player. Mazz never did adjust to coaching in the ECAC and was never comfortable with Ivy academics including the AI. He ruffled some feathers with the athletic department along the way. I don't know if any alums protested to Bob Scalise but I do know that after he left, I was one of several who signed a letter asking Bob to consider Teddy or Ron Rolston as our next head coach.
True. He did come in and got us to the NCAAs. And we won two ECAC tournaments on his watch. But we constantly underachieved and the problems with players kept surfacing year after year. Obviously you are not going to please everyone all the time but the complaints were justified and the talent was wasted year after year.
Not quite. In '08, we went to the ECAC tournament final losing to Princeton and in '12, we went to the final again losing to Union. There's no question that Teddy has failed to build on his early years and that has a lot of people, myself included, pretty frustrated. But you have to give him credit where it is due and in those two years, they surprised people by going to the tournament final.
I think that other Harvard alums and those connected with the University have weighed in from time to time. Let's face it, the program has fallen into the abyss and the losing is hard to take after a while. How many times can you berate someone or the program before it falls on deaf ears? If Teddy wasn't such a good guy (and he is because I've known him since he was at Harvard), there probably would be a firestorm. But it is hard to keep pounding on someone who clearly loves the game and has strong feelings about his alma mater. That said, after Monday's debacle, something has to give.
ScoobyFanClub
Registered User
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
It's a shame that what looks great now under Mazzoleni compared to Donato - actually most certainly was underachieving then too. There's no reason Harvard can't do what Cornell, and moreso in recent years Yale, have done. It's been 20 years of this. Mazz gets credit for doing more than Ron and Ted have done, but that just wasn't cutting it either given what the potential is, and given what Skate79 said about the underlying issues.
It's a shame that what looks great now under Mazzoleni compared to Donato - actually most certainly was underachieving then too. There's no reason Harvard can't do what Cornell, and moreso in recent years Yale, have done. It's been 20 years of this. Mazz gets credit for doing more than Ron and Ted have done, but that just wasn't cutting it either given what the potential is, and given what Skate79 said about the underlying issues.
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
In 2012 Harvard came very close to winning the ECAC. They were leading Union 1-0 well into the third period in Atlantic City in the championship game and this after destroying an excellent Cornell squad the previous day. They also just missed a slot in the NCAA's. The March 19, 2012 USCHO ranked them 18th. Cornell was at 14th and made it. Harvard's record was 13-10-11. I think they set the NCAA record for # of ties that year. Had Harvard converted just a few of those ties into wins, they would have made the playoffs. That was really an outstanding hockey team.
In 2012 Harvard came very close to winning the ECAC. They were leading Union 1-0 well into the third period in Atlantic City in the championship game and this after destroying an excellent Cornell squad the previous day. They also just missed a slot in the NCAA's. The March 19, 2012 USCHO ranked them 18th. Cornell was at 14th and made it. Harvard's record was 13-10-11. I think they set the NCAA record for # of ties that year. Had Harvard converted just a few of those ties into wins, they would have made the playoffs. That was really an outstanding hockey team.
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Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
I don't know if I would use the word outstanding although our power play was really clicking in the second half of the season. We were a very good team that had trouble finishing games and thus wound up with the record number of ties. Agree that if we had converted 3 or 4 of those ties into wins, we might have made the NCAAs that year. Instead of building on that success however, we have taken several steps backward. Which if you look at the past 14 years seems to be a trend for this program. A disturbing one at that.
I don't know if I would use the word outstanding although our power play was really clicking in the second half of the season. We were a very good team that had trouble finishing games and thus wound up with the record number of ties. Agree that if we had converted 3 or 4 of those ties into wins, we might have made the NCAAs that year. Instead of building on that success however, we have taken several steps backward. Which if you look at the past 14 years seems to be a trend for this program. A disturbing one at that.
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
No one, not even ted, would argue that the current state of the program is where it should be or where it needs to be. But this guy is probably one of the top 10-15 guys ever to fon the jersey, is a local guy, and I think it's more than wins and losses and NCAA appearances. This guy was the MVP of the 1989 frozen 4 and a big reason Harvard has an NCAA title in hockey,
So what is the job of the coach? I'm not sure donato falls short on all fronts and he certainly has proven robe a great recruiter.
I don't have the answer and I'm curious to what other people think.
No one, not even ted, would argue that the current state of the program is where it should be or where it needs to be. But this guy is probably one of the top 10-15 guys ever to fon the jersey, is a local guy, and I think it's more than wins and losses and NCAA appearances. This guy was the MVP of the 1989 frozen 4 and a big reason Harvard has an NCAA title in hockey,
So what is the job of the coach? I'm not sure donato falls short on all fronts and he certainly has proven robe a great recruiter.
I don't have the answer and I'm curious to what other people think.
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
That's my opinion, anyway.
To me, there are two pillars: wins and character. I would not be satisfied with a coach who wins but brings in nothing but goons, nor would I be happy with a coach whose players win the hockey humanitarian (or even Nobel Peace Prize) every year but perennially finish in the bottom 3rd of the league. When it comes to wins, I couldn't care less whether they happen because the coach is a great recruiter but lousy bench coach, or if he's a great bench coach who knows how to get the most out of lousy recruits, or even if he just knows the right assistants to hire and they do all the work while he plays golf every day of the week - a win is a win is a win. On the opposite side of the coin, a loss is a loss is a loss. Who cares if he's a great recruiter if that doesn't translate into wins? Who cares if he runs the most awesome practices of all time for developing players' individual skills if that doesn't translate into wins?
That's my opinion, anyway.
ScoobyFanClub
Registered User
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Harvard has always had great recruits. The place recruits itself. By all accounts Teddy is a great guy. I think they can find another great guy who can also coach better.
Harvard has always had great recruits. The place recruits itself. By all accounts Teddy is a great guy. I think they can find another great guy who can also coach better.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
FiveHole12
Registered User
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Good point. If the best you can say about a Harvard coach is that he can recruit... That's like praising a salesman for being able to sell water in a desert.
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
If I was really motivated, I'd put up a poll that would read something like this: Which would you rather watch, the Opening Ceremonies at Sochi or Harvard v Dartmouth in men's hockey?
But I'm just too lazy and unmotivated to do so. And it's Friday. And I've run out of excuses. Lame I know but there's nothing else to say about tonight's game. Right?
If I was really motivated, I'd put up a poll that would read something like this: Which would you rather watch, the Opening Ceremonies at Sochi or Harvard v Dartmouth in men's hockey?
But I'm just too lazy and unmotivated to do so. And it's Friday. And I've run out of excuses. Lame I know but there's nothing else to say about tonight's game. Right?
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014
Okay so it looks like I'm the only one who cares to write something about the Crimson. Can't really blame folks for abandoning the thread. I'll try and make this mildly interesting to read.
Just when you thought you had seen it all in college hockey, along comes tonight's game between two bottom feeders. First, the Zamboni developed mechanical problems that necessitated a call to a mechanic to come to the rink for repairs (I'm not making this up). The Zamboni repaired and the ice finished almost two hours after the original start time, the teams warmed up a bit when it was announced that the game would begin right away. Oh wait, what about the national anthem? Okay, well, we'll have the anthem played by the Harvard University band. Whoops, not so fast. A recording of the anthem starts playing even though the band is in attendance (now I see why they don't come to games anymore. I thought it was because the Crimson stink. Silly me). Then while the puck is dropped and play starts, the starting lineup for the Crimson is announced. Between the first and second periods, it was announced that Chuck a Puck would not happen for tonight's game. Fast forward to the second period and viola! Chuck a Puck will indeed take place between the second and third periods.
Yup, that's Harvard hockey 2013-2014. A colossal joke. The game was so bad, I really was wishing that I had stayed home and watched the opening ceremonies from Sochi. Would it have killed them to keep the men's basketball game on the big screen even after the hockey game commenced? There just wasn't anything good to say about tonight's game. Horrendous passing, no clue as to how to set up a play, on and on it goes. How the mighty have fallen.
To make matters worse, Guiltinan got another game disqualification when he rammed his elbow into the head of a Dartmouth player and they proceeded to roll on the ice and throw haymakers at each other. Guiltinan comes off the ice bleeding and laughing at the same time and Teddy does nothing. Not a word. This kind of nonsense would not be tolerated by Billy Cleary. Harvard continues to take stupid penalties (Esposito negates a PP only 16 seconds in) and their undisciplined play and total lack of focus is really alarming. Even during Tommasoni's last season, it wasn't this bad. How Teddy lets this happen is beyond me.
I don't really want to hear about how talented we are because that is a load of you know what. We don't have the talent people think we have. And it is really clear that Teddy has to go. Nothing personal but he can't run a D-1 program. He is overmatched and it shows. We blow and to say otherwise is to be in denial. Time for a program overhaul. Now.
Okay so it looks like I'm the only one who cares to write something about the Crimson. Can't really blame folks for abandoning the thread. I'll try and make this mildly interesting to read.
Just when you thought you had seen it all in college hockey, along comes tonight's game between two bottom feeders. First, the Zamboni developed mechanical problems that necessitated a call to a mechanic to come to the rink for repairs (I'm not making this up). The Zamboni repaired and the ice finished almost two hours after the original start time, the teams warmed up a bit when it was announced that the game would begin right away. Oh wait, what about the national anthem? Okay, well, we'll have the anthem played by the Harvard University band. Whoops, not so fast. A recording of the anthem starts playing even though the band is in attendance (now I see why they don't come to games anymore. I thought it was because the Crimson stink. Silly me). Then while the puck is dropped and play starts, the starting lineup for the Crimson is announced. Between the first and second periods, it was announced that Chuck a Puck would not happen for tonight's game. Fast forward to the second period and viola! Chuck a Puck will indeed take place between the second and third periods.
Yup, that's Harvard hockey 2013-2014. A colossal joke. The game was so bad, I really was wishing that I had stayed home and watched the opening ceremonies from Sochi. Would it have killed them to keep the men's basketball game on the big screen even after the hockey game commenced? There just wasn't anything good to say about tonight's game. Horrendous passing, no clue as to how to set up a play, on and on it goes. How the mighty have fallen.
To make matters worse, Guiltinan got another game disqualification when he rammed his elbow into the head of a Dartmouth player and they proceeded to roll on the ice and throw haymakers at each other. Guiltinan comes off the ice bleeding and laughing at the same time and Teddy does nothing. Not a word. This kind of nonsense would not be tolerated by Billy Cleary. Harvard continues to take stupid penalties (Esposito negates a PP only 16 seconds in) and their undisciplined play and total lack of focus is really alarming. Even during Tommasoni's last season, it wasn't this bad. How Teddy lets this happen is beyond me.
I don't really want to hear about how talented we are because that is a load of you know what. We don't have the talent people think we have. And it is really clear that Teddy has to go. Nothing personal but he can't run a D-1 program. He is overmatched and it shows. We blow and to say otherwise is to be in denial. Time for a program overhaul. Now.
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