Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I find it hard to believe Harvard was skating two lines, and in a 2OT game no less. Two lines?

And didn't Harvard have a power play late in the third just before Yale scored? Serious question as I was following on gametracker and didn't want to pay to watch the game.

They were skating two lines because Mary Parker did not dress for the game. Reason unknown at this time although maybe someone can shed some light on it. The Harvard coach decided to sub in Elizabeth Parker and Jessica Harvey during the game on those two lines rather than play Hannah Zarzecki in a regular shift. I doubt they can get away it with the rest of the way but we'll see.

No, Harvard did not have a PP late in the OT. Yale had two consecutive PPs on absolutely ticky tack calls. You give a team two PPs at the end of a second OT and what happened isn't totally unexpected.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Sure, but Harvard did have the shot advantage in first OT. Yes, they got dominated in the second OT apparently. But what share of games go to 2 OT? Shortening the bench may have been an optimal strategy that just happened to fail to pay off this time.

Also it looks to me like Harvard's third line had 6 SOG while Yale's had 3. Did Harvard really only play 6 players in OT?

I'll also note again that Katey Stone's 25-1 record in ECAC quarterfinals since 1999 is under-appreciated on this board. Yes, there were some gimmes there when Harvard was #1 and the ECAC #8 was weak, but there were plenty of other games that weren't.

You are correct Dave. Crowell shortened an already short bench because Mary Parker did not dress. So Elizabeth Parker and Jessica Harvey saw only one or two shifts at most in the second OT. By the second penalty, Harvard was gassed and you know what happened. If Parker doesn't dress again today, Crowell has no choice but to skate Zarzecki or risk her team losing in regulation. Asking a team to skate two lines for a three game series just isn't feasible.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I can't speak to the quality of the calls but Harvard had three power plays of their own in overtime and went 0-6 for the whole game. I'm not sure that the refs were the biggest problem here.

They may not have been the biggest problem but they clearly influenced the outcome and made some egregious calls. The Yale goalie played a great game, no doubt about it. And we had trouble finishing which has been a problem for us all year. But when you have to beat a hot goalie AND overcome inept officiating, that is too much to ask for any team.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Not for nothing but Katey Stone attended last night's game. It had to be absolute torture for her to watch another one of her teams lose a 3-2 game in OT. On a power play goal. How much pain does one person have to absorb in a month?

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

You are correct Dave. Crowell shortened an already short bench because Mary Parker did not dress. So Elizabeth Parker and Jessica Harvey saw only one or two shifts at most. By the second penalty, Harvard was gassed and you know what happened. If Parker doesn't dress again today, Crowell has no choice but to skate Zarzecki or risk her team losing in regulation. Asking a team to skate two lines for a three game series just isn't feasible.

Did not see the game, so cannot comment on the quality of the calls, but from a stats perspective it was fairly even:

Harvard was 0/5 on the PP (although they did score with en extra attacker on when Yale was getting called for in infraction)
Yale was 1/7 on the PP

The call distribution per period was as follows:

Period....Calls vs Harvard....Calls Vs Yale
====....============....=========
....1................1....................0.......
....2................1....................2.......
....3................1....................0.......
...OT1.............1....................2.......
...OT2.............3....................1.......

Not saying this happened here, but sometimes a team with a shorter bench gets more tired as the game goes on, and tired players tend to make more mistakes, including taking penalties. Therefore I do agree with your premise that skating with a short bench can be counter productive in the long run. I've stated before that that could be Harvard's downfall when the chips are down. Having said that, they are not the only team running with a short bench. Lets hope that the series gets decided by a clean game without controversy.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I'm missing what the context is in commenting on the short bench.

Are we just stating the obvious that when you play 9 forwards regularly and your #3 scorer is out for unknown reasons, you're going to have trouble against any ECAC playoff team these days?

Or are we saying that in this particular game, Harvard should have still played three lines throughout the whole 2 OT game even if it meant putting the 10th-best forward on the third line, and possibly that Harvard should've developed that player better this season?

Or are we saying that Harvard should have recruited more depth beyond the top three lines because it was inevitable that they would wear down and someone would be absent in a key situation down the stretch if you really so heavily on nine forwards all season?

 

[ARM]

No, Harvard did not have a PP late in the OT.

The box score disagrees with you:
2nd Overtime (17:33)
HAR-5 Dylanne Crugnale (2-Interference) YAL 0x5 8:25
HAR-6 Natasha Rachlin (2-Charging) YAL 0x6 11:16
YAL-5 Kate Martini (2-Checking) HAR 0x5 13:38
HAR-7 Miye D'Oench (2-Roughing) YAL 1x7 16:22
YAL 3 - 2 6x5 PP GW LL Janelle Ferrara (6) (Kate Martini/8, Jackie Raines/6) 17:33

 

[Call It]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

@ OnMAA

We are talking Hockey hear, not IVY League BS.

 

[john0128]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I watched the game, and it was an all out war. I will say that the 3 calls for charging the goaltender were given because the players made it very clear they had every intention of charging the yale goalie. By that I mean not only was there no effort to even stop, but they would lower their shoulder and open ice hit a goalie at full speed. I feel that the refs were giving these penalties to protect the defenseless goalie. And man, did that kid take a beating. Same goes for some early whistles. The way that the Harvard players would take that goalie out would force the ref to blow the whistle early to try and stop Harvard from running her.

If Harvard is unhappy with those calls maybe they should make it less obvious that they are out to run Yale's goalie

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I'm missing what the context is in commenting on the short bench.

Are we just stating the obvious that when you play 9 forwards regularly and your #3 scorer is out for unknown reasons, you're going to have trouble against any ECAC playoff team these days?

Or are we saying that in this particular game, Harvard should have still played three lines throughout the whole 2 OT game even if it meant putting the 10th-best forward on the third line, and possibly that Harvard should've developed that player better this season?

Or are we saying that Harvard should have recruited more depth beyond the top three lines because it was inevitable that they would wear down and someone would be absent in a key situation down the stretch if you really so heavily on nine forwards all season?

I guess what I'm saying is that if Crowell knew that she didn't have Mary Parker for this game, why not put Hannah Zarzecki on the third line from the beginning of the game? Okay, so you have no idea the game is going to go to a second OT but isn't that a contingency that you have to plan for anyway? And yes this does speak to developing depth because had they played Zarzecki more often this year and developed her, she might have been able to handle the minutes in this game. As it is, putting her out there for one shift and then sitting her the rest of the game made no sense to me.

The recruiting aspect for depth is a whole other discussion and is really not applicable at this point because you can't do anything about it for today's game.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

The box score disagrees with you:
2nd Overtime (17:33)
HAR-5 Dylanne Crugnale (2-Interference) YAL 0x5 8:25
HAR-6 Natasha Rachlin (2-Charging) YAL 0x6 11:16
YAL-5 Kate Martini (2-Checking) HAR 0x5 13:38
HAR-7 Miye D'Oench (2-Roughing) YAL 1x7 16:22
YAL 3 - 2 6x5 PP GW LL Janelle Ferrara (6) (Kate Martini/8, Jackie Raines/6) 17:33

Right. Okay. So three of the last four calls go against Harvard. Point still remains; it left Harvard vulnerable especially since they were going with six forwards at that point.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I watched the game, and it was an all out war. I will say that the 3 calls for charging the goaltender were given because the players made it very clear they had every intention of charging the yale goalie. By that I mean not only was there no effort to even stop, but they would lower their shoulder and open ice hit a goalie at full speed. I feel that the refs were giving these penalties to protect the defenseless goalie. And man, did that kid take a beating. Same goes for some early whistles. The way that the Harvard players would take that goalie out would force the ref to blow the whistle early to try and stop Harvard from running her.

If Harvard is unhappy with those calls maybe they should make it less obvious that they are out to run Yale's goalie

You couldn't be more wrong. Hilary Crowe's penalty was bogus - she had every right to dig for the puck. Rachlin did hit the Yale goalie but she left her crease to go behind the net which mean't she was in play just like her teammates. And if you seriously think Miye D'Oench was out to run the goalie, you have no idea what you are talking about. D'Oench is about as non-physical a player as there is in the ECAC.

And as long as we are talking about running goalies, how about the hack jobs that Yale put on Maschmeyer? Hmm? Did you like how they attacked her in OT and yet the ref strangely put his whistle in his pocket and let them hack away even though she had obviously covered the puck. Yeah, we were plenty unhappy about the calls.

 

[john0128]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

there is a huge difference between hacking with sticks, which harvard did just as much as Yale, and open ice hitting a goalie! Not to say these plays were on purpose but these hits would have been penalties against forwards, so obviously when you hit the goalie the ref is in a strange place. The ref did not call the 3 Harvard penalties for hacking at the goalie, and he did not even call them for goalie interference, he called them for charging. Charging is when you take two strides, lower your shoulder and hit someone. Yale did not do that to Maschmeyer. I am not saying these hits were planned or on purpose. I am saying that they happened. Just because the goalie goes out of the crease doesn't mean you can open ice hit her when it is clear she had the puck? The other two, the goalie was clearly in the crease and took hits at full speed when the puck was either covered or not near her at all. Last I checked, there was no contact in women's hockey. Yes, the calls were strange, but if the ref doesn't call that Harvard would have charged leonoff all night, which they did anyways and it cost them. Harvard had so many opportunities to score and missed. You cannot blame the refs for that. Someone had a glaringly empty net in OT on the PP and hit the outside of the post, is that the refs fault too? They have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

@ OnMAA

We are talking Hockey hear, not IVY League BS.

There is more to being a student-athlete than just playing varsity hockey. If you don't see it that way we strongly disagree then. Still no reason to call it BS or a poor/bad team. I would hope that one of the things student athletes get out of their experience is to learn some respect. Respect for the game, respect for the coaches, respect for the Officials, respect for the opponent. Respect for different viewpoints.

 

[mnpokecheck]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There is more to being a student-athlete than just playing varsity hockey. If you don't see it that way we strongly disagree then. Still no reason to call it BS or a poor/bad team. I would hope that one of the things student athletes get out of their experience is to learn some respect. Respect for the game, respect for the coaches, respect for the opponent. Respect for different viewpoints.

Respect for Officials???

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Respect for Officials???

Yes. Missed that one. Fixed it.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Rachlin did hit the Yale goalie but she left her crease to go behind the net which mean't she was in play just like her teammates.

This is incorrect. I believe that the protected area for the goalie is a box from the face-off dots to the end boards; regardless, it's much greater than just the crease.

 

[Call It]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Harvard, are you getting nervous!!! 1-0 Yale

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

All the excuses were ready. Too tired. Too much pressure. A hot goalie in Leonoff. Missed opportunities. On and on. Yet somehow, some way Harvard got it done tonight. Just an immense game. For the second straight night, Harvard ruled and dominated play in stretches. Yale relied so heavily on their D and their goalie and tonight, it backfired on them. That and not getting the help from officials they got last night. Tonight the officials put their whistles away in OT and let both teams decide it for themselves. As it should be.

What can you say about Miye D'Oench? My goodness, she gave it all she had and played about 75 minutes tonight. At times she never came off the ice. That kid has heart and soul that is beyond off the charts. She is playing on another level and I only hope she has something left for tomorrow. Her effort on the winning goal was pure desire.

Leonoff again was great and kept Yale in this game. Harvard had so many chances and some incredible looks right in front of her yet she stood tall. In the first OT, she cramped up something fierce yet stayed in and kept fighting. Lots of heart there as well.

Crowell rolled the dice with Liang in goal and it paid off. Brianna remained calm and steady throughout the game and came up with a season saving stop just before Dylan Crugnale tied the game. She also had a beauty in the second OT right before D'Oench won it. But again, and this is baffling to me, Crowell shortened her already short bench by limiting the minutes of Sydney Daniels and Elizabeth Parker late in the game and into the OTs. Daniels has had a great two games and I just don't understand these moves. She got away with it tonight but I can't see this helping Harvard tomorrow.

BTW, for those interested, I spoke to Mary Parker before the game. She has a concussion and if Harvard makes it to Clarkson next weekend, she may play. She is feeling much better so hopefully Harvard wins tomorrow and we get her back next weekend.

I'll say it again; Harvard is the better team. Yale has been living off Leonoff but the number of saves she has had to make these past two nights has to take its toll. I expect the same kind of game tomorrow unless Harvard is completely gassed and has nothing left. But they have too much courage and heart not to fight to the end. So buckle up and let's have it.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

For what it's worth, the GWG came while Yale was playing its third line/10th forward who had 1 SOG total. So not shortening can hurt too.