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Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Next weekend and at the moment, that it's for the championship isn't guaranteed. Yale has to go through Princeton and Penn on the road this weekend and even if they win both, a win over Harvard will just cause an Ivy playoff at a neutral site TBD.

Whoops, good catch! Just checked the schedule - we're home this weekend with Cornell and Columbia. Next week's game against Yale by the way will be televised on the NBCSN. That has to be a first; men's hoop against Yale on a national TV network. Good for them. Yale should handle Penn but Princeton may be a more difficult task.

Okay, back to hockey.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Well, from the 14-15 commitments thread, Harvard replaced the D for next year who decommited from them and went to Cornell. Perhaps this is the missing piece some of you were looking for to explain why the decomitted player was asked to do a post-grad year....gonna be a fair number of players sitting in the stands next season at Harvard...5 or so?

Harvard
Chelsea Ziadie.............D............(Hotchkiss)....... ........ Pointe-Claire, Que./Qc

Perhaps although only Ms. O'Connor can answer that for us. The coaching staff may well have asked her but if she wanted to play right away, then it was her choice to de-commit. Too bad because after next season, she would have gotten a chance to play quite a bit with Edney, Gedman and Pucci graduating.
 
The coaching staff may well have asked her but if she wanted to play right away, then it was her choice to de-commit.
Or maybe she wanted to study right away. As it was reported, she was asked to delay entry. We always say that student athletes should focus on studies first, so that may be what she was doing.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Perhaps although only Ms. O'Connor can answer that for us. The coaching staff may well have asked her but if she wanted to play right away, then it was her choice to de-commit. Too bad because after next season, she would have gotten a chance to play quite a bit with Edney, Gedman and Pucci graduating.

Based on the commitment thread, this player was the first Harvard commitment (almost 2 years ahead! --look it up)--to play in 14-15. It was only after the early application deadline, when most of a players other options have moved on, that she was suddenly asked by Harvard to defer another year. You can say this was her choice to go to Cornell instead...but I'd be willing to bet her first choice would have been to have the original commitment honored.

Unless you have had children go through the process, you can't imagine the stress associated with making these decisions, even when things end up going reasonably well (very few end up at their first choice school). But when they later fall apart at the 11th hour like this one did, the heartbreak is incredibly devastating for players and their families. It can affect a player for a really long time. It's very discouraging that coaches apparently make (and unmake) these decisions so lightly.

It is certainly not a given that she would have eventually got lots of ice time at Harvard. If she was really valued that highly, the rug would not have been pulled out from her so abruptly. As an earlier poster alluded, she can be thankful that she found out her true value prior to matriculating, rather than sitting on the bench. That is blessing, though it may not seem like it now. I hope looking back on it, Ms O'Connor believes she ultimately ended up in a better place for her.

It is a sad commentary on the state of ethics and integrity in D1 hockey that many coaches are increasingly making such early advance commitments without ever intending to follow through on all of them. Whether it's because someone better came along later, or whether they know the player will have difficulty gaining admission but want to keep them from signing with a competitor, who knows.

Unfortunately, this has become a regular recurring theme at Harvard: there were 2 prominent late de-commits last fall, and at least one player the previous year who was asked to defer like O'Connor that I am aware of, along with a few more in previous years. Given that 3 of these latest 4 ended up at other Ivies (and the other at a good academic school), it would seem that academics were unlikely to have been much of a problem. Regardless, such early commitments IMO should not be extended by coaches in the first place to players with borderline academics--without gaining buy-in from Admissions. It's dishonest. I was told by a very reputable coaching source that Harvard had given an early commitment this year to a player with a 19 ACT. Are Harvard Admissions standards are dropping that much? Are commitments that meaningless?

Unfortunately too many players and parents continue to be so unknowledgeable and naive (and/or egotistical) to choose to "commit" to coaches so far in advance without getting any assurances from admissions. Coaches play into this. There is no upside to taking yourself off the market so early. If you are a highly valued commodity (and that's all you are apparently), you will still find a spot in the summer/fall after Junior year. There's truly no rush. If you are not a top recruit, you are even more vulnerable to the de-commit if a more highly prized prospect comes along later, as we are seeing all too often.
 
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Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Based on the commitment thread, this player was the first Harvard commitment (almost 2 years ahead! --look it up)--to play in 14-15. It was only after the early application deadline, when most of a players other options have moved on, that she was suddenly asked by Harvard to defer another year. You can say this was her choice to go to Cornell instead...but I'd be willing to bet her first choice would have been to have the original commitment honored.

I'm sure that she wanted to come to Cambridge as her first choice. It isn't unusual for Harvard to ask for kids to defer. It has happened to both athletes and non-athletes. Happened to my niece. Was it heartbreaking? Absolutely. And given that she was a legacy kid, it was even more difficult to handle. Was not a pleasant time to be around the family.

Unless you have had children go through the process, you can't imagine the stress associated with making these decisions, even when things end up going reasonably well (very few end up at their first choice school). But when they later fall apart at the 11th hour like this one did, the heartbreak is incredibly devastating for players and their families. It can affect a player for a really long time. It's very discouraging that coaches apparently make (and unmake) these decisions so lightly.

Please see above comment. I do interviewing for Harvard admissions so in addition to the kids in my family, I see it during the interview process with both athletes and non-athletes. They want very badly to get in and the wait is excruciating. There is no question in my mind that this had to be very difficult both emotionally and otherwise for Ms. O'Connor.

It is certainly not a given that she would have eventually got lots of ice time at Harvard. If she was really valued that highly, the rug would not have been pulled out from her so abruptly. As an earlier poster alluded, she can be thankful that she found out her true value prior to matriculating, rather than sitting on the bench. That is blessing, though it may not seem like it now. I hope looking back on it, Ms O'Connor believes she ultimately ended up in a better place for her.

I didn't say it was a given that she would get lots of ice time. I said she would get the chance to play quite a bit given the departures of Edney, Gedman and Pucci. A chance is just that - an opportunity not a given.

It is a sad commentary on the state of ethics and integrity in D1 hockey that many coaches are increasingly making such early advance commitments without ever intending to follow through on all of them. Whether it's because someone better came along later, or whether they know the player will have difficulty gaining admission but want to keep them from signing with a competitor, who knows.

Agree wholeheartedly. There was a time when sports at Harvard while competitive was a great chance to learn skills that would serve you later in life. It did for me and for people I played with and against. Not saying that these girls don't acquire such skills today but the emphasis on winning is greater especially once the NCAA took over D-1 women's hockey.

Unfortunately, this has become a regular recurring theme at Harvard: there were 2 prominent late de-commits last fall, and at least one player the previous year who was asked to defer like O'Connor that I am aware of, along with a few more in previous years. Given that 3 of these latest 4 ended up at other Ivies (and the other at a good academic school), it would seem that academics were unlikely to have been much of a problem. Regardless, such early commitments IMO should not be extended by coaches in the first place to players with borderline academics--without gaining buy-in from Admissions. It's dishonest. I was told by a very reputable coaching source that Harvard had given an early commitment this year to a player with a 19 ACT. Are Harvard Admissions standards are dropping that much? Are commitments that meaningless?

I can't speak to any of the above because I don't know the players you are referring to (although I could hazard a guess). But it also happens the other way as well. Dave Pergola committed to Harvard and it wasn't until over the summer before his freshman year that he and his dad visited with Coach Cleary and told Coach that he had changed his mind and was going to BC. Needless to say, Pergola heard it from the Bright crowd every time BC played us there. Kids have enough pressure without adults trying to steer them every which way.

Unfortunately too many players and parents continue to be so unknowledgeable and naive (and/or egotistical) to choose to "commit" to coaches so far in advance without getting any assurances from admissions. Coaches play into this. There is no upside to taking yourself off the market so early. If you are a highly valued commodity (and that's all you are apparently), you will still find a spot in the summer/fall after Junior year. There's truly no rush. If you are not a top recruit, you are even more vulnerable to the de-commit if a more highly prized prospect comes along later, as we are seeing all too often.

No argument from me. Solid points. I don't think anyone would dispute your contention here.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

We get it. For some reason you have a bone to pick with Harvard and posted about this subject numerous times, including twice today in separate threads. You have also made disparaging comments about several other Ivy schools in your postings. There have been "Commitment Changes" in the past with HE schools as well. This is not unique to Ivies. Having said that, the academic standards and regulations for admittance are much stricter at an Ivy than at most other D1 schools. I suspect that it takes a lot more extra home work by the coaching staffs to get a recruit into an Ivy school.

Glad you get the point. With respect to your comments about the Ivies, admissions difficulty, and my postings:

- I reviewed briefly the last few years commitments and Harvard is the only one of the 6 hockey playing Ivies that regularly commits to kids and then they fail to follow through. Harvard had 1 this year, 2 last year, 2 or 3 the year before. In fact, I didn't see this occur even once at any of the 5 other Ivies in the 3 years I looked at, but I could have missed something. Apparently Harvard is the only one of the Ivies where the hockey staff is so out of touch with the school's admission standards (OR perhaps where the coaching staff is so uncommitted to its commitments). Am I annoyed by that - yes.
- Comments on other Ivies I have made have not been disparaging, but observational:
- Princeton made some questionable commitment decisions but has carried through on those commitments and has had a change in strategy and making earlier commitments in order to be competitive.
- Brown is not good, that's been my comment on them. Pretty hard to argue with that, eh?
- I've rarely posted on Dartmouth (weak recruiting recently), Cornell, or Yale.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There are no words to describe the absolute disgust I have for the officials after tonight's game. What a bag job. Harvard played their hearts out, totally dominated Yale with a short roster playing only two lines and yet came up empty because the officials decided to intervene and affect the outcome. The last two calls on Harvard were a disgrace. How Miye D'Oench gets a roughing call is beyond me. Turner and Pimm should be fired immediately.

Credit to Leonoff the Yale goalie. She played a great game. But Harvard really should have won this game in regulation had the officials not allowed the second goal. Both goalies gave up soft goals but Leonoff made the better saves. You can't play much better than what the Crimson showed tonight but it is **** near impossible to beat both a hot goalie and incompetent officiating.

If the ECAC wants Clarkson to win the tournament, then they will get their wish if these guys officiate another game in this series. As it is, Harvard now has to win two straight without Mary Parker. Skating two lines, I don't see it happening. A shame really because Harvard is clearly the better team. Much better.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There are no words to describe the absolute disgust I have for the officials after tonight's game. What a bag job. Harvard played their hearts out, totally dominated Yale with a short roster playing only two lines and yet came up empty because the officials decided to intervene and affect the outcome. The last two calls on Harvard were a disgrace. How Miye D'Oench gets a roughing call is beyond me. Turner and Pimm should be fired immediately.

The calls looked pretty legitimate to me per the online video feed and replay.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I find it hard to believe Harvard was skating two lines, and in a 2OT game no less. Two lines?

And didn't Harvard have a power play late in the third just before Yale scored? Serious question as I was following on gametracker and didn't want to pay to watch the game.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

If the ECAC wants Clarkson to win the tournament, then they will get their wish if these guys officiate another game in this series. As it is, Harvard now has to win two straight without Mary Parker. Skating two lines, I don't see it happening. A shame really because Harvard is clearly the better team. Much better.

Maybe only skating two lines and being without Mary Parker maybe had something to do with the loss? Im not up to date on Harvard hockey but thats my observation.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I can't speak to the quality of the calls but Harvard had three power plays of their own in overtime and went 0-6 for the whole game. I'm not sure that the refs were the biggest problem here.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Maybe only skating two lines and being without Mary Parker maybe had something to do with the loss? Im not up to date on Harvard hockey but thats my observation.

Feel similarly, although I also didn't want to pay to watch and followed via Live Stats like TTT. Here are the shots:

Shots*On*Goal* 1st 2nd 3rd OT1 OT2 Total
*Yale* 5 9 11 6 17 48
*Harvard* 15 14 11 9 8 57

Harvard clearly had the goods on Yale in the first two periods but couldn't put them away. They got tired, took some penalties, and the shots and momentum went Yale's way because they were playing 3 lines and were fresher. OT games are generally not to Harvard's advantage with their short bench, especially in the playoffs.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Sure, but Harvard did have the shot advantage in first OT. Yes, they got dominated in the second OT apparently. But what share of games go to 2 OT? Shortening the bench may have been an optimal strategy that just happened to fail to pay off this time.

Also it looks to me like Harvard's third line had 6 SOG while Yale's had 3. Did Harvard really only play 6 players in OT?

I'll also note again that Katey Stone's 25-1 record in ECAC quarterfinals since 1999 is under-appreciated on this board. Yes, there were some gimmes there when Harvard was #1 and the ECAC #8 was weak, but there were plenty of other games that weren't.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Of course the shot advantage in OT 2 is also clearly a result of three Harvard penalties to Yale's 1. Now maybe those penalties came in part because Harvard got "tired" and a third-line player was on the PK when the GWG was scored, so these explanations floated here aren't entirely obvious based from the box score.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Watched the game online.

Felt that the refs did make 2 weak calls against Harvard, both at the end and both were to do with goalie interference. Probably neither were justified. Just saying.

Also, Yale's 2nd goal was scored with the net knocked off slightly, and a Yale player was in the net. The Yale player did not obstruct Maschmeyer but did slightly knock the net off before the puck went in. It was called a goal. Does anyone know the ruling on this?? Since the refs did review the play and called it a goal

This was one of those games you just don't want to end. Both teams played well and both deserved to win. Fun game to watch.

Reminds me of the 4OT periods played by I think it was NYI and Washington where Pat Lafontaine scored the winner. I just couldn't leave the television for that game, nor this one.

Question - Why was Parker not playing??
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I noticed two freshman were both -2 for the game. Even though they have USA u18 experience, perhaps they are not ready for playoff pressure? To much ice time for them? I gotta say, this is a huge upset, Yale is not that good at all. Well thank your lucky stars that you are not in Hockey East, cause you would be cleaning the locker room at 4pm today. Play harder today Prima donnas.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I gotta say, this is a huge upset, Yale is not that good at all. Play harder today Prima donnas.

Holy smokes another poster crapping on an Ivy team calling them not good at all. ( Re Hockey East crapping on Brown ).

Yale is "Undefeated" in three games vs Harvard this year. That is not just dumb luck.

Many of these Ivy players combine a strenuous academic schedule with varsity hockey. For example several Yale players in recent years have graduated with top marks, won the Schwarz award for community service and were top contributing players on their team. One of the senior Brown players is graduating with a 4.0 in Bio Med. These players might not be your top echelon hockey stars, but they are well rounded individuals who will be successful in their career thanks in large part to their hard work, commitment and perseverance in many aspects of college life. Calling persons like that prima donnas is out of line.

Sorry for the rant.
 
Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

(Knowing nothing about either team, I observe that...)

They have played one another three times this year: a 2-0 Yale win, a 3-3 tie, and a 3-2 Yale OT win.

So ....
 
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