Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

[Just a Spectator!]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

So, Harvard lost a 2014-2015 recruit to Cornell:

http://www.cyahockey.com/news_article/show/343365?referrer_id=96603

Interesting that Harvard asked her to do a PG year - someone woke up and counted the D for next season I guess (even though they are only playing 4 this year apparently). I would say she made the right decision ... who knows if the Harvard "commitment" would have been honored next year - interesting to read between the lines - there is definitely some passive aggressive negativity towards Harvard in this announcement on the part of teh player and the program. This kind of stuff is eventually going to start impacting their ability to get kids - they are betting that the Harvard allure is great enough to attract recruits in the face of repeated commit/decommits every year...maybe they are right!

Unfortunatly, this happens at other schools as well, though it does seem like it’s been a common occurrence at Harvard lately. You would tend to believe it is more likely to occur at a school that does not offer any type of athletic scholarships such as an Ivy League school, where a coach has nothing to lose by verbally committing to a player other than some negative conversation on a board such as this, and which is forgotten as soon as a new topic is posted. Though I sympathize with this player and wish here great success at Cornell, I do believe it could have been worse, where as she went to a school and was promised this or that only to find herself sitting on the bench, or worse in the stands, which I have personally witnessed several times to both my friends and former teammates. At some point players and their parents do catch on and in the end it ends up hurting a team’s recruiting and ultimately the continued success of any team.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Unfortunatly, this happens at other schools as well, though it does seem like it’s been a common occurrence at Harvard lately. You would tend to believe it is more likely to occur at a school that does not offer any type of athletic scholarships such as an Ivy League school, where a coach has nothing to lose by verbally committing to a player other than some negative conversation on a board such as this, and which is forgotten as soon as a new topic is posted. Though I sympathize with this player and wish here great success at Cornell, I do believe it could have been worse, where as she went to a school and was promised this or that only to find herself sitting on the bench, or worse in the stands, which I have personally witnessed several times to both my friends and former teammates. At some point players and their parents do catch on and in the end it ends up hurting a team’s recruiting and ultimately the continued success of any team.

Every year there are a few cases of "change". Sometimes it is cause the player has a change of heart. Sometimes the player cannot make "the grade" to get into the school. Sometimes there are personal circumstances. Sometimes the school/coach cannot hold the "commitment", or they pressure a recruit to make a choice when they are not ready. There is often more than one side to each story. The danger with all these "public" announcements is that people scrutinize them to the n'th degree, and either the school or the player gets vilified over it when there is a change.

Long story short, making that final commitment is a tricky for a 16 or 17 year old to make, especially if they have many choices. Coaches oversell their programs, and recruits (and parents) over-belief, which can lead to disappointment real quickly when the truth sets/sinks in. IMHO, being pressured to make a commitment prior to the summer leading into your Senior year should not be allowed.

 

[ARM]

IMHO, being pressured to make a commitment prior to the summer leading into your Senior year should not be allowed.

That sounds good in theory, but remember that the real source of the pressure is coming from basic supply and demand. No matter how the coach phrases it, whether it is the hard-sell approach that you mean or a kinder, gentler message, it still comes down to each scholarship program having only so many spots, and once they are gone for a season, they're gone. My understanding is that non-scholarship schools run into admissions limits as well. If opportunities at BC or Wisconsin or Minnesota are highly sought, and student-athlete initiated contact is allowed, which I think it still should be, some players' first choices will fill up early, so they'll move to their second choices and so on. If there are HS sophomores who know where they want to go, or at least think that they do, and want to lock down that decision, that creates the pressure on the rest of the recruiting class. When lines form hours or days in advance of a coveted product going on sale, it isn't the seller that is creating the pressure, but the other buyers. Finite supply is what ultimately creates pressure, whenever that ultimately occurs.

 

[Hux]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There is also the assumption here that the player is decommitting from her first choice. Could well be that she was interested in the bucolic hills of western New York as her number one, but that wasn't immediately available, so she opted for the skyline views from north of the Charles.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There is also the assumption here that the player is decommitting from her first choice. Could well be that she was interested in the bucolic hills of western New York as her number one, but that wasn't immediately available, so she opted for the skyline views from north of the Charles.

Possibly true, but the announcement certainly doesn't read that way. Reads more like "they BS'ed me and I'm taking my game elsewhere"....

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Coaches oversell their programs, and recruits (and parents) over-belief, which can lead to disappointment real quickly when the truth sets/sinks in.

This topic was discussed here at some length a couple of years ago. While in any business situation a good dose of healthy skepticism is usually a good idea in order to attempt to separate the chaff from the wheat, if by "over-believe" you are referring to believing the coach's promises/commitments to the recruit with respect to playing time then I couldn't disagree more.

The "advantage" that the coach's have when making such promises is that all this stuff is verbal...as in "where's the proof that I said that?" or "that's not exactly what I said" or "you must have misunderstood me" or "I don't recall saying that". If these "promises" were in writing on the program's letterhead then you would see a lot less of this stuff happening...even where the promises were not exactly specific as to the number of shifts per game or number of games per season etc. that was promised by the coach...because a good percentage of litigation is settled by determining what would be "reasonable" in each specific situation. Such a hammer hanging over their heads would cause the coach's to sharpen up their communication skills, improve their memories and positively encourage them to understand that ethics dictates that a promise is a promise and that the often high ideals and principles that their program expects the recruit to adhere to applies to the coach's as well.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Possibly true, but the announcement certainly doesn't read that way. Reads more like "they BS'ed me and I'm taking my game elsewhere"....

I disagree with that read between the lines assessment. I read it as...We will have a spot for you the year after next and recommend you do a PG year, and the player opted for another option to start play right away and not do the PG year.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

That sounds good in theory, but remember that the real source of the pressure is coming from basic supply and demand. No matter how the coach phrases it, whether it is the hard-sell approach that you mean or a kinder, gentler message, it still comes down to each scholarship program having only so many spots, and once they are gone for a season, they're gone. My understanding is that non-scholarship schools run into admissions limits as well.

Agree that the early commit trend is driven by supply and demand. That is the sad part of the extra pressure, we should not be putting our 15 and 16 year old's under. Very few know at that age what they "Really" want, and it often changes by the time they are 18 or 19.

My understanding is that non-scholarship schools run into admissions limits as well.

That is true for some of the non-scholly schools our D was involved with. Pretty sure most if not all Ivy schools have to meet a academic index of some sort for each incoming class. I have even heard of a case of a higher end academic recruit taking the SAT/ACT again to boost her score so they can bring another player in. For example, if several potential early commits ALL end up at the low range of their test scoring tables or academic results, it may force the coach to have to let one of them go to meet the team's index. Bottom line is that there are a lot of variables, and more uncertainties the further you are away from your senior year.

 

[COLD AS ICE]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

So, Harvard lost a 2014-2015 recruit to Cornell:

http://www.cyahockey.com/news_article/show/343365?referrer_id=96603

Interesting that Harvard asked her to do a PG year - someone woke up and counted the D for next season I guess (even though they are only playing 4 this year apparently). I would say she made the right decision ... who knows if the Harvard "commitment" would have been honored next year - interesting to read between the lines - there is definitely some passive aggressive negativity towards Harvard in this announcement on the part of teh player and the program. This kind of stuff is eventually going to start impacting their ability to get kids - they are betting that the Harvard allure is great enough to attract recruits in the face of repeated commit/decommits every year...maybe they are right!

Isn't this the way the system is supposed to work? What is the problem? It appears, from the little information available, that Harvard offered this defenseman a spot in 2015. They looked at their roster, with no defensemen graduating, and 2 returning from the Olympics, and felt it was unlikely a freshman would get appreciable playing time in 2014. The coaches made that honest assessment, and acted accordingly. I have not seen anything that implied the coaches initially offered a spot in 2014, and then changed their minds and suggested the PG year as plan B. The player decided she valued a spot at Cornell in 2014 more than a spot at Harvard in 2015. That is her perrogrative. Time will tell if this was a good decision. I think most recruits would look at this as the Harvard coaches making an honest assessment of this recruit's abilities, sharing it with the player, and making what they felt was a responsible offer. The player evaluated that offer, and decided to go elsewhere. What the Harvard coaches did not do was mislead the player into believing she would get significant playing time in 2014. If I was a prospective Harvard recruit, I would respect the coaches' honesty and straight forward approach to an all too common situation.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

This topic was discussed here at some length a couple of years ago. While in any business situation a good dose of healthy skepticism is usually a good idea in order to attempt to separate the chaff from the wheat, if by "over-believe" you are referring to believing the coach's promises/commitments to the recruit with respect to playing time then I couldn't disagree more.

That is not what I meant.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Isn't this the way the system is supposed to work? What is the problem? It appears, from the little information available, that Harvard offered this defenseman a spot in 2015. They looked at their roster, with no defensemen graduating, and 2 returning from the Olympics, and felt it was unlikely a freshman would get appreciable playing time in 2014. The coaches made that honest assessment, and acted accordingly. I have not seen anything that implied the coaches initially offered a spot in 2014, and then changed their minds and suggested the PG year as plan B. The player decided she valued a spot at Cornell in 2014 more than a spot at Harvard in 2015. That is her perrogrative. Time will tell if this was a good decision. I think most recruits would look at this as the Harvard coaches making an honest assessment of this recruit's abilities, sharing it with the player, and making what they felt was a responsible offer. The player evaluated that offer, and decided to go elsewhere. What the Harvard coaches did not do was mislead the player into believing she would get significant playing time in 2014. If I was a prospective Harvard recruit, I would respect the coaches' honesty and straight forward approach to an all too common situation.

The commitment was announced for 2014-15, not 2015-16, which is an indication that the player at least thought that it was for next year.

 

[COLD AS ICE]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

The commitment was announced for 2014-15, not 2015-16, which is an indication that the player at least thought that it was for next year.

There are pieces of information here that do not fit. If the player did commit for 2014, she should have been admitted early decision to Harvard last fall. If that was the case, she would not be able to accept an offer to Cornell in January. Did she ever make it through admissions? We will never know whether this was an issue with admissions, playing time, or both; or whether it was driven primarily by Harvard or the player. I think it is time to bury this topic and simply wish the player well at an excellent institution. I don't forsee future Harvard recruits paying much attention to this at all.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

There are pieces of information here that do not fit. If the player did commit for 2014, she should have been admitted early decision to Harvard last fall. If that was the case, she would not be able to accept an offer to Cornell in January. Did she ever make it through admissions? We will never know whether this was an issue with admissions, playing time, or both; or whether it was driven primarily by Harvard or the player. I think it is time to bury this topic and simply wish the player well at an excellent institution. I don't forsee future Harvard recruits paying much attention to this at all.

My understanding from other sources: the player was offered a spot in Fall, 2014. The coaches then decided to ask her to defer a year and do a PG year. This was driven by the large number of players they have coming in/back next year, not by any development need. Apparently they decided she was the least valuable to them. She was not interested in that and found a spot at Cornell. Appears the coaches waited to ask her to defer until they had confidence she couldn't get a spot for next year elsewhere and would have to accept the PG approach. They made a bet and lost. Always possible this info is not accurate, but that is what I've heard and consistent with the postings on this forum regarding commitment (quite a while ago) and the tone of the CYA posting about the change. It is clear from the CYA posting that this was not a standard situation/commitment process.

 

[D2D]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

...the player was offered a spot in Fall, 2014. The coaches then decided to ask her to defer a year and do a PG year. This was driven by the large number of players they have coming in/back next year...

Appears the bottom line then is that the coaches erred by letting the cart get before the horse. They should have known how many players they had coming in, and should have known how many they expected to have coming back - BEFORE offering her the spot for 2014-15. Glad it worked out for the young lady, and one can imagine that she'll have a little extra incentive over the next four years whenever Cornell plays Harvard.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Appears the bottom line then is that the coaches erred by letting the cart get before the horse. They should have known how many players they had coming in, and should have known how many they expected to have coming back - BEFORE offering her the spot for 2014-15. Glad it worked out for the young lady, and one can imagine that she'll have a little extra incentive over the next four years whenever Cornell plays Harvard.

And that all goes back to earlier and earlier commitments and the risk in them. This was one of the early commits for this class I believe (the whole class, not just Harvard) and back then the Harvard coaches may not have even realized all of the injury year-off/return and olympic/return players they would have. Of course, they also may not have cared...

 

[RStarr]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

she told me it was because itchaca >> cambridge.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I've been to Ithaca and Cambridge and, no offense to Cornell alumni, but that's hard to believe

 

[RStarr]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

yeah, but no...

http://elitedaily.com/news/world/dangerous-colleges/

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

yeah, but no...

http://elitedaily.com/news/world/dangerous-colleges/

Hmmm....Three Ivy league schools are on that top ten list. Uggh.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Hmmm....Three Ivy league schools are on that top ten list. Uggh.

That's not too surprising - what is surprising is that neither Yale or Brown are one of them!!

Regardless, I guess you can live your life in fear, but I would hope that a player (or anybody really) wouldn't be making their college choice primarily based on crime statistics....if that's the case she should go to UND or UMD or Dartmouth...BTW - Ithaca has a pretty high crime rate for "cities" its size as I recall. What I was referring to is the opportunities offered by Boston vs. Ithaca. There is a reason that Harvard grads generally hate to leave Boston and Cornell grads can't wait to get out....