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Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Indications are that when contact was lost with the aircraft, it was rapidly descending at a rate of 1500 meters per minute. That could mean the aircraft was in a deep stall. The pilot had reported some concerns just prior to loss of contact as well.

Contrary to ISIS claims, I suspect we may be looking at a pilot error issue very similar to Air France 447.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

joecct said:
ISIS is claiming responsibility for shooting down a Russian jetliner with 237 aboard. I would rethink that. The Russian Bear is not one to make threats or draw lines in the sand.
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A little like saying you got into Helga Larson's pants.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

joecct said:
ISIS is claiming responsibility for shooting down a Russian jetliner with 237 aboard. I would rethink that. The Russian Bear is not one to make threats or draw lines in the sand.
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Not so sure. Russia excels in playing the tough guy...particularly against the US. But if terror doesn't care what the US does (and it doesn't)...it really doesn't care what Russia does. In fact, terrorists would probably welcome action from Russia. Any overly aggressive response (the only types that get back to the source) attempted by Russia will probably be less effective than that of the US and will likely recruit more to the side of terrorists. With the US think Vietnam...with Russia think Afghanistan.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

5mn_Major said:
Not so sure. Russia excels in playing the tough guy...particularly against the US. But if terror doesn't care what the US does (and it doesn't)...it really doesn't care what Russia does. In fact, terrorists would probably welcome action from Russia. Any overly aggressive response (the only types that get back to the source) attempted by Russia will probably be less effective than that of the US and will likely recruit more to the side of terrorists. With the US think Vietnam...with Russia think Afghanistan.
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That's likely not strictly analogous, as their views between the US and Russia. Russia has a history of actively suppressing and killing Muslims in Chechnya. The government position in Russia, due to its strong arm, authoritarian views, have been to make it a government position of suppressing, what they see as the Chechen rebels and what ISIS might consider Muslim freedom fighters. ISIS is a great many bad things, but entirely ignorant of world politics isn't likely one of them. They see us as being different than Russian. While we have the potential to bring a much greater military force, we don't have the political will to do it. Even though Russian forces are smaller and likely not as well equipped, on a man-to-man comparison, they have more political will to suppress and even eradicate ISIS. Russia joining the fight is ISIS's biggest concern at this point.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

St. Clown said:
That's likely not strictly analogous, as their views between the US and Russia. Russia has a history of actively suppressing and killing Muslims in Chechnya. The government position in Russia, due to its strong arm, authoritarian views, have been to make it a government position of suppressing, what they see as the Chechen rebels and what ISIS might consider Muslim freedom fighters. ISIS is a great many bad things, but entirely ignorant of world politics isn't likely one of them. They see us as being different than Russian. While we have the potential to bring a much greater military force, we don't have the political will to do it. Even though Russian forces are smaller and likely not as well equipped, on a man-to-man comparison, they have more political will to suppress and even eradicate ISIS. Russia joining the fight is ISIS's biggest concern at this point.
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Have to disagree. I've seen no evidence ISIS is concerned in the slightest about Russia. Why would they claim responsibility for the Russian airliner if they were afraid of Russia? I believe for ISIS Chechnya is not a concern but more likely a rally cry.

I've spent quite a bit of time overseas. And IMO this whole 'the world sees us as weak'...is more in the minds of some Americans than anything real. But in the case of terror...its not afraid of anyone. Terrorists have already decided their cause is more important than their lives.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

5mn_Major said:
Have to disagree. I've seen no evidence ISIS is concerned in the slightest about Russia. Why would they claim responsibility for the Russian airliner if they were afraid of Russia? I believe for ISIS Chechnya is not a concern but more likely a rally cry.

I've spent quite a bit of time overseas. And IMO this whole 'the world sees us as weak'...is more in the minds of some Americans than anything real. But in the case of terror...its not afraid of anyone. Terrorists have already decided their cause is more important than their lives.
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This. All of this.

Religious fanatics don't have to measure earthly power because they have an infinite power on their side. ISIS probably assumes the more evil, non-Caliphate powers that fight them the better, since Paradise will be achieved that much sooner.

America is now respected and to that extent feared more than it was under the Cons. At that time we were overextending more by the day and allying with us was a bad idea because it was like agreeing with the school bully to share enemies -- given time the little shnook would pick on half the school. Now that we're free of those buffoons, we've gotten back to something resembling a thoughtful foreign policy, and we are no longer regarded as the international equivalent of a mean drunk.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
This. All of this.

Religious fanatics don't have to measure earthly power because they have an infinite power on their side. ISIS probably assumes the more evil, non-Caliphate powers that fight them the better, since Paradise will be achieved that much sooner.

America is now respected and to that extent feared more than it was under the Cons. At that time we were overextending more by the day and allying with us was a bad idea because it was like agreeing with the school bully to share enemies -- given time the little shnook would pick on half the school. Now that we're free of those buffoons, we've gotten back to something resembling a thoughtful foreign policy, and we are no longer regarded as the international equivalent of a mean drunk.
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While I'm mostly there. I see terrorists consumed not by their religion...but by their cause. What burns in them daily is not the Koran...but the hatred of their enemies. IE...this is not religious driven, but rather ideology driven. Important distinction in dealing with it. If there is some sort of comfort about achieving paradise...its a logical backstop and not the driving day to day all encompassing fire.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

5mn_Major said:
While I'm mostly there. I see terrorists consumed not by their religion...but by their cause. What burns in them daily is not the Koran...but the hatred of their enemies. IE...this is not religious driven, but rather ideology driven. Important distinction in dealing with it. If there is some sort of comfort about achieving paradise...its a logical backstop and not the driving day to day all encompassing fire.
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There is something to that -- it's not religion but religion plus something, otherwise everybody who held the religion would be a terrorist.

I think of the religion as the fuel and the something as the accelerant. Religions make good fuel because they claim to take precedence over everything else: if you're Abraham you're willing to sacrifice Issac because nothing is more important than faith. Skepticism is a terrible fuel -- it doubles back on itself with doubt and drowns the attempt to start a fire.

The search for what the accelerant is is the psychological question of this century. It seems to be something like "pain" -- either the personal pain of the unloved awkward nobody who shoots up his school, or the collective pain of a people groaning under unjust domination by an invader, or the metaphysical pain of a primitive culture pushed to extinction by modernity. Individual monsters are a matter of mental imbalance, but to produce whole phalanxes of monsters takes a special additive.
 
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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

ISIS will mess with the US or the Russians. Why? Because they "play along".

Notice ISIS doesn't mess with the Chinese. The Chinese don't play. If you mess with the Chinese they go "Tiananmen Square" on you.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

joecct said:
If you want to take down the Chinese (a) embargo all trade from China or (b) slap a big tariff on anything made by the Chicoms that comes into the USA. Hit the pocketbook. That's what Salvor Hardin did.
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Somebody hasn't seen the "End of the World" cartoon... ;)
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

joecct said:
If you want to take down the Chinese (a) embargo all trade from China or (b) slap a big tariff on anything made by the Chicoms that comes into the USA. Hit the pocketbook. That's what Salvor Hardin did.
Click to expand...

An atom-blaster is a good weapon, but it can point both ways.
 
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Kepler said:
There is something to that -- it's not religion but religion plus something, otherwise everybody who held the religion would be a terrorist.
Click to expand...

True. The percentage of the global religious who commit terror acts is almost zero. Percentage of global religious who do great good is quite high.
 
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