Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

[joecct]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Well, with Iran and Saudi Arabia it's more of a global nuclear war. Quick, someone start a game of tic-tac-toe and call Matthew Broderick!

It's his day off.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The arc of the moral universe may be getting ready to kick this little tinhorn ideologue out on his keister.

 

[burd]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

You know there are other threads to discuss the health care bs...does it needs to spew over in a thread about global war?

What's one death squad from another?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

What's one death squad from another?

Touche

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

You know there are other threads to discuss the health care bs...does it needs to spew over in a thread about global war?

Well, it's practically created a war, albeit domestically. Some call Obummer the great divider, and if you look at the policy put into place since he got into national government (that includes the Senate), it's absolutely true.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

As of several years ago, 75% of health costs went to treat chronic diseases--COPD, heart disease, diabetes, etc. WW will know more about that, I suspect.

Which is a different thing than what I was talking about, although elderly care and especially end of life care certainly has some overlap with chronic disease treatment.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Some call Obummer the great divider

"Some" being "People who have hated him pathologically from literally the moment he took office."

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

"Some" being "People who have hated him pathologically from literally the moment he took office."

Naw, he's just another of the litany of current politicians who aren't interested in consensus and push their agenda with little thought of compromise. He's just by far the most high profile, being President and all, so he sets the tone more than anyone else.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Naw, he's just another of the litany of current politicians who aren't interested in consensus and push their agenda with little thought of compromise. He's just by far the most high profile, being President and all, so he sets the tone more than anyone else.

What you see depends on where you sit, I guess. I think Obama had the patience of a saint dealing with the GOP the first two years. He did finally give up trying to negotiate with them, but it warranted -- the national GOP thinks negotiation is weak and compromise is sinful.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

What you see depends on where you sit, I guess. I think Obama had the patience of a saint dealing with the GOP the first two years. He did finally give up trying to negotiate with them, but it warranted -- the national GOP thinks negotiation is weak and compromise is sinful.

Yes, a different seat can definitely have a different perspective. I'd expect a fervent Obama supporter to say what you say. From my perspective, his wanting to work together was never serious and people who bought into it were naïve or partisan. His condescending attitude toward those who have a different perspective than his has always been at or near the surface.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

What you see depends on where you sit, I guess. I think Obama had the patience of a saint dealing with the GOP the first two years. He did finally give up trying to negotiate with them, but it warranted -- the national GOP thinks negotiation is weak and compromise is sinful.

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

-Sen. Mitch McConnell, 10/29/2010

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Yes, a different seat can definitely have a different perspective. I'd expect a fervent Obama supporter to say what you say. From my perspective, his wanting to work together was never serious and people who bought into it were naïve or partisan. His condescending attitude toward those who have a different perspective than his has always been at or near the surface.

I'm hardly a fervent Obama supporter, Bob. I have nearly as many problems with him from the left as you have from the right.

The constant righty refrain concerning his "condescension" is something I've always found fascinating. I think "uppity" may be the word they're striving for...

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

I'm hardly a fervent Obama supporter, Bob. I have nearly as many problems with him from the left as you have from the right.

The constant righty refrain concerning his "condescension" is something I've always found fascinating. I think "uppity" may be the word they're striving for...

Ah, back to the whole effort to paint him as not liberal. Just not buying it. Not buying that you have almost as many problems with him as I do.

Giving him a pass because he's a given race should never happen, though it obviously has in some quarters.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Ah, back to the whole effort to paint him as not liberal. Just not buying it. Not buying that you have almost as many problems with him as I do.

Giving him a pass because he's a given race should never happen, though it obviously has in some quarters.

On the former, you just aren't as much of an expert on how I feel about Obama as I am, Bob. On the latter, nobody's suggesting a pass, but good lord the ubiquity of the very term "condescending" can't really avoid drawing that comparison. I would say Obama's rhetoric with the interminable pausing and looking at everything from every angle is professorial. I get that not everybody responds well to that, but you never hear righties describing say Kissinger or Wolfowitz or Irving Kristol as "condescending."

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

On the former, you just aren't as much of an expert on how I feel about Obama as I am, Bob. On the latter, nobody's suggesting a pass, but good lord the ubiquity of the very term "condescending" can't really avoid drawing that comparison. I would say Obama's rhetoric with the interminable pausing and looking at everything from every angle is professorial. I get that not everybody responds well to that, but you never hear righties describing say Kissinger or Wolfowitz or Irving Kristol as "condescending."

On the first, no, I'm not an expert on what you think about him, though I observe you at least sometimes speaking well of him on here. But, you certainly aren't very aware of my feelings on him if you think your quibbles with him about not being liberal enough compare to my concerns about him.

Again, I'd expect someone much more supportive of Obama (and hating everything remotely Republican) to not think he's condescending. You meet that expectation. Why would righties call their own condescending? That makes no sense. Just like you admitting Obama is condescending isn't expected, as he's one of your own, and your protestations aside, he's forwarded many of the causes I see you champion on here quite well during his years in the Oval Office.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

On the first, no, I'm not an expert on what you think about him, though I observe you at least sometimes speaking well of him on here.

I think therein lies the disconnect on the right when it comes to people's attitudes towards Obama. Their hatred is so total that anyone who doesn't share their commitment to loathing him is "a blind follower" and "a fanatical supporter." And before you say it I'll save you the trouble: there was a very similar phenomenon flipped the other way concerning Dubya, and personally I had a hard time understanding anybody who didn't despise him.

But, you certainly aren't very aware of my feelings on him if you think your quibbles with him about not being liberal enough compare to my concerns about him.

Yeah, I actually thought of that after I sent my post. In much the same way that you can't read my mind, I can't read yours. Point to you, sir.

Again, I'd expect someone much more supportive of Obama (and hating everything remotely Republican) to not think he's condescending. You meet that expectation. Why would righties call their own condescending? That makes no sense. Just like you admitting Obama is condescending isn't expected, as he's one of your own, and your protestations aside, he's forwarded many of the causes I see you champion on here quite well during his years in the Oval Office.

I'll show you the problem with this line of thinking: I supported almost everything Al Gore campaigned on, and I knew every moment that he was the most cringe-inspiringly condescending politician I ever heard in my life.

The right seems to lean on the "condescending" accusation a lot. I've heard Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama and Hillary Clinton all called that from the right. On the other side, Reagan and Dubya weren't called condescending by the left. (Bush Sr. was.) When I hear righties call a Democrat condescending I associate it with that good ol' boy anti-intellectualism that started in the south and permeated the entire party. Bill Buckley would not have a home on today's right, and that's too bad, because he was streets ahead of all them. I would say the right thinks of liberalism itself as condescending, much in the way the left sees contemporary conservatism as paranoid and violent.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

I think therein lies the disconnect on the right when it comes to people's attitudes towards Obama. Their hatred is so total that anyone who doesn't share their commitment to loathing him is "a blind follower" and "a fanatical supporter." And before you say it I'll save you the trouble: there was a very similar phenomenon flipped the other way concerning Dubya, and personally I had a hard time understanding anybody who didn't despise him.

Yeah, I actually thought of that after I sent my post. In much the same way that you can't read my mind, I can't read yours. Point to you, sir.

I'll show you the problem with this line of thinking: I supported almost everything Al Gore campaigned on, and I knew every moment that he was the most cringe-inspiringly condescending politician I ever heard in my life.

The right seems to lean on the "condescending" accusation a lot. I've heard Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama and Hillary Clinton all called that from the right. On the other side, Reagan and Dubya weren't called condescending by the left. (Bush Sr. was.) When I hear righties call a Democrat condescending I associate it with that good ol' boy anti-intellectualism that started in the south and permeated the entire party. Bill Buckley would not have a home on today's right, and that's too bad, because he was streets ahead of all them. I would say the right thinks of liberalism itself as condescending, much in the way the left sees contemporary conservatism as paranoid and violent.

Yes, I think conservatives tend to see liberals as condescending, seeing them as thinking they know better and talking down as a result. I'm sure there are similar buzz words used against conservatives by liberals. And of course each side thinks their perceptions are the reality and the other side is wrong. There's probably a vein of truth in a lot of what is said, but then it's blown out of proportion in pursuit of partisan advantage. Of those you list, I'd only see Obama and Gore, and Hillary to a lesser extent as condescending. The others don't strike me as condescending. I don't see it as anti-intellectualism, but more a perception that certain folks think they are a lot smarter than those who oppose them and that such a perception is arrogant.

I certainly don't think your a blind Obama guy like some around here who reflexively defend anything and everything he does. You show nuance in a way few lefties around here do, though you then go off on rather scary anti-conservative rants that make you seem as paranoid, etc. as those you are ranting about. I think you sometimes play down how much you like what he's done to emphasize that he hasn't gone nearly far enough in your book, not an uncommon strategy among supporters.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Man, that House of Cards portrayal hit him hard.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

You show nuance in a way few lefties around here do, though you then go off on rather scary anti-conservative rants that make you seem as paranoid, etc. as those you are ranting about. I think you sometimes play down how much you like what he's done to emphasize that he hasn't gone nearly far enough in your book, not an uncommon strategy among supporters.

There are a couple areas in which I am definitely paranoid about what the right has been doing in this country. Don't mess with voting rights, that's the cornerstone of democracy. Stop pressing the feeder bar on white and southern resentment and armed revolt, that's scary stuff. But I think most of my really extreme rants are bipartisan: get big money out of politics; break the corporate-government-military iron triangle.

I'm not spinning my feelings about Obama. On some policies (women's issues, gay rights after a hesitant start) I think he's been solid. On other policies (surveillance, financial reform) I feel betrayed. As to the politics, I think he was too slow in realizing the GOP wasn't sincere and he should have cut them out earlier, although he did learn when the chips were down and that showed that he learns. As to his leadership of the Democratic party and his effort to help other Dems, don't get me started -- he's been awful. And as to the man in general I think he's been an excellent representative of America to the world and I am personally proud of him as our president. So it's all a mixed bag, just as it was with Clinton and Carter, and just as I'm sure it will be with Hillary if she wins.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Honest mistake.