Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

For now. The Tsar is not dead, just renamed.

This is not a sprint. A step backwards, two steps forward. Steady progress towards global peace and democracy is what matters. This is arguably the first time the Russian people themselves have stood up for democracy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Won't last a 9th Circuit minute in court.

And, I know this will surprise you, I think the Supreme Court upholds the 9th Circuit.

Maybe, but I think Roberts, Thomas and Alito will be on board the Homeland Security Express right to the end of the line. Scalia, who knows? It depends whether he finds a cryptic footnote to his edition of the Anabasis over cornflakes the day he hears the case. And I'm none too sure about Kagan, either. Being Obama's nominee doesn't exactly fill me with confidence when it comes to civil liberties and privacy issues.

The main point is this is just too freaking scary to come from the Senate. The House is supposed to come up with boneheaded shortsighted crap like this all the time: they're the Vox Populi. The Senate is supposed to contain at least a critical mass of people who have taken Con Law 101.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

This is not a sprint. A step backwards, two steps forward. Steady progress towards global peace and democracy is what matters. This is arguably the first time the Russian people themselves have stood up for democracy.

They did it in February 1917, too. They just blew it in October.

The Russians have a pattern of doing this. They got rid of Ivan the Terrible only to invite him back.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

They did it in February 1917, too. They just blew it in October.

The Russians have a pattern of doing this. They got rid of Ivan the Terrible only to invite him back.

I don't think I'd have been big on Czarist serfdom either. In the end, the Russian people had little input into the formation of Stalinism.

 

[joecct]

They did it in February 1917, too. They just blew it in October.

The Russians have a pattern of doing this. They got rid of Ivan the Terrible only to invite him back.

I honestly think Russia needs a Tsar. Not an Ivan, but a Constutional Peter would give the Russians their state figurehead and tourist rubles. The apparatus would still run the country the way its always been, but the masses would be happy. And if somebody really screws up there is always the Kremlin Wall treatment ala Ivan. THAT would make the people happy, too!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

I don't think I'd have been big on Czarist serfdom either. In the end, the Russian people had little input into the formation of Stalinism.

Well, "the people" very rarely have much input in the formation of a political system. Also, it's a long, long road between the anti-czarists and the February Revolution and the October Revolution and Stalin. Conflating them is a little like saying Julius Caesar brought down the Roman Republic -- it skips about 100 years of political history in between.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

I honestly think Russia needs a Tsar. Not an Ivan, but a Constutional Peter would give the Russians their state figurehead and tourist rubles. The apparatus would still run the country the way its always been, but the masses would be happy. And if somebody really screws up there is always the Kremlin Wall treatment ala Ivan. THAT would make the people happy, too!

It's like the old saw that whoever is on the money it's the bureaucrats who have really run China for four thousand years.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Well, "the people" very rarely have much input in the formation of a political system.

Disagree. It just takes time. Whether directly or indirectly, the people get what they want. Unlike a thousand years ago, there are relatively few dictatorial monarchies. Its when the people themselves disagree that the system takes control.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Disagree. It just takes time. Whether directly or indirectly, the people get what they want. Unlike a thousand years ago, there are relatively few dictatorial monarchies. Its when the people themselves disagree that the system takes control.

"Government by the people" depends which people you mean by "the people."

Arguably, the same percentage of the population has real political power today as it had in many ages. The difference is the illusion of power, which is probably more important to happiness than the reality of power.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Did we not have a remote self destruct in these drones? Really?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Did we not have a remote self destruct in these drones? Really?

Please forward your remarks to:

Lockheed Martin Corporation
6801 Rockledge Drive
Bethesda, MD 20817

Speculation from an aviation site, which includes one of my favorite euphemisms, "departure from controlled flight."

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Hey, we've asked them for it back. Problem solved.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

I've never worked on the RQ-170, nor do I know that anyone I've ever worked with has. However, having worked alongside plenty of people who *have* worked on other drones (Global Hawk, Predator, etc), I can almost 100% guarantee that RQ-170 had a self destruct feature, and I can also 100% guarantee that that feature has failure modes which could prevent it from working properly. Getting an aircraft to do what you want (whether to fly or to self-destruct) is always a game of probabilities.

For commercial airplanes, any failure mode which could potentially lead to a "catastrophic" (i.e. loss of the airplane) event must be shown via analysis and backed up with test data to show that the probability of that event occurring is less than 1e-9 (i.e. less probable than 1 in a billion). But, in the words of Jim Carey, "So you're telling me there's a chance!" There's no way to guarantee that an airplane will not crash - that would be trying to prove a negative - so all you can do is ensure that it is very unlikely.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Hey, we've asked them for it back. Problem solved.

If we would have been prepared, we wouldn't have to fall back on the last resort...now would we?

I've never worked on the RQ-170, nor do I know that anyone I've ever worked with has. However, having worked alongside plenty of people who *have* worked on other drones (Global Hawk, Predator, etc), I can almost 100% guarantee that RQ-170 had a self destruct feature, and I can also 100% guarantee that that feature has failure modes which could prevent it from working properly. Getting an aircraft to do what you want (whether to fly or to self-destruct) is always a game of probabilities.

For commercial airplanes, any failure mode which could potentially lead to a "catastrophic" (i.e. loss of the airplane) event must be shown via analysis and backed up with test data to show that the probability of that event occurring is less than 1e-9 (i.e. less probable than 1 in a billion). But, in the words of Jim Carey, "So you're telling me there's a chance!" There's no way to guarantee that an airplane will not crash - that would be trying to prove a negative - so all you can do is ensure that it is very unlikely.

Unfortunately, this puts the failure rate of that system (assuming it exists) as pretty poor.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Unfortunately, this puts the failure rate of that system (assuming it exists) as pretty poor.

Outstanding logic. If you roll a 20-sided die and get a 20 on the first roll, do you assume it's loaded?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Outstanding logic. If you roll a 20-sided die and get a 20 on the first roll, do you assume it's loaded?

I guess it depends on your level of acceptance. By nearly any QC standard, one failure out of one test is pretty poor.

But the real question that should have been asked is why was our drone flying over Iran?

The potential 'benefit' is the detection of a nuclear program. So what...what are we going to do about it? Invade? Good luck...that would make Afghanistan look like a walk in the park. Instead, save the billions on the drones program, give me a grand and I'll tell you the Iranians are working on a nuke program.

The downside? Drone going down in hostile territory (seems like a pretty good chance of that occurring), handing over sensitive technology, and being seen as violating soveriegn air space (something that we might not be to fond of ourselves). In the end, the whole excercise sabotages any liberalized internal movements to combat the Iranian dictatorship.

Was it under the authorization of Obama? Probably. But I guess I'd take that over the right's need to kick off yet another war.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

I guess it depends on your level of acceptance. By nearly any QC standard, one failure out of one test is pretty poor.

Why would you assume that they never tested it before?

But the real question that should have been asked is why was our drone flying over Iran?

The potential 'benefit' is the detection of a nuclear program. So what...what are we going to do about it? Invade? Good luck...that would make Afghanistan look like a walk in the park. Instead, save the billions on the drones program, give me a grand and I'll tell you the Iranians are working on a nuke program.

The downside? Drone going down in hostile territory (seems like a pretty good chance of that occurring), handing over sensitive technology, and being seen as violating soveriegn air space (something that we might not be to fond of ourselves). In the end, the whole excercise sabotages any liberalized internal movements to combat the Iranian dictatorship.

Was it under the authorization of Obama? Probably. But I guess I'd take that over the right's need to kick off yet another war.

This part is a very valid lead-in to a very interesting discussion....

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

The downside? Drone going down in hostile territory (seems like a pretty good chance of that occurring), handing over sensitive technology, and being seen as violating soveriegn air space (something that we might not be to fond of ourselves). In the end, the whole excercise sabotages any liberalized internal movements to combat the Iranian dictatorship.

Was it under the authorization of Obama? Probably. But I guess I'd take that over the right's need to kick off yet another war.

Speaking of which, Newt actually said "regime change" in regards to Iran. I'm not sure which is worse: that there are people who have still learned nothing from the Iraq War and stand by their apocalyptic view of America as a brutalizing empire of conquest, or that there are people like Newt who don't believe a word of it but deliberately ride that horse for personal profit.

 

[joecct]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Speaking of which, Newt actually said "regime change" in regards to Iran. I'm not sure which is worse: that there are people who have still learned nothing from the Iraq War and stand by their apocalyptic view of America as a brutalizing empire of conquest, or that there are people like Newt who don't believe a word of it but deliberately ride that horse for personal profit.

If you're into regime change then you better have your guy all lined up to take the reins and be prepared to stick around a while to be him/her up.

A compliant press helps, too.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

If you're into regime change then you better have your guy all lined up to take the reins and be prepared to stick around a while to be him/her up.

A compliant press helps, too.

You provide the pictures; I'll provide the war.