Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

[johnnypohlfan]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I'm doing just fine! Long way from the ledge for me. Did fine in college, graduated with honors, had a job lined up 1 year before graduation, been working for the same company since in a job in my major, and about a month from making Senior Engineer and getting about a 15% boost in salary. Life isn't that bad.

Congratulations...I guess? You do realize you're quite lucky, right?

I'm had pretty much the same experience since graduating in 2008 from college, but i'm not about to go around tooting my own horn. I have enough family and friends who graduated around the same time and have horse **** jobs, or no job.

Its rare that I agree with a Twitch Boy post, but he's right on this topic. But I'm sure everyone here is glad to hear you're doing so well.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Congratulations...I guess? You do realize you're quite lucky, right?

I'm had pretty much the same experience since graduating in 2008 from college, but i'm not about to go around tooting my own horn. I have enough family and friends who graduated around the same time and have horse **** jobs, or no job.

Its rare that I agree with a Twitch Boy post, but he's right on this topic. But I'm sure everyone here is glad to hear you're doing so well.

It is absolutely not luck. I worked for what I have, I earned it. How many people that have no job or ****ty jobs slacked off to much in college? How many studied degrees that are essentially useless and had poor job prospects to begin with? How many made poor decisions like not pursuing an iternship for a summer to gain valuable experience? All I'm saying is, make the right decisions and do a little work, and it will work out. I'm guessing that the majority of people in a poor job situation can look back and point to things that they should have done differently/better, and they would be in a much better postion. Some people in that spot will learn from their mistakes and be better for it going forward, others will be blame other people and continue to be dumbasses.

 

[jen]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

people who think unemployment and lack of respect are problems specific to one generation grind my gears.

It is absolutely not luck. I worked for what I have, I earned it. How many people that have no job or ****ty jobs slacked off to much in college? How many studied degrees that are essentially useless and had poor job prospects to begin with? How many made poor decisions like not pursuing an iternship for a summer to gain valuable experience? All I'm saying is, make the right decisions and do a little work, and it will work out. I'm guessing that the majority of people in a poor job situation can look back and point to things that they should have done differently/better, and they would be in a much better postion. Some people in that spot will learn from their mistakes and be better for it going forward, others will be blame other people and continue to be dumbasses.

In a good economy, I would agree. In this economy - I don't find that to be the case. Plenty of hard workers, with years of valuable professional experience, that made all the "right" choices - still get laid off, through absolutely no fault of their own. This is happening to every generation - not just recent grads.

Being lucky doesn't mean you didn't also work hard - but what about the people who worked equally as hard, or even harder - and still don't have jobs?

 

[johnnypohlfan]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

In a good economy, I would agree. In this economy - I don't find that to be the case. Plenty of hard workers, with years of valuable professional experience, that made all the "right" choices - still get laid off, through absolutely no fault of their own. You ARE lucky.

This.

Thank you for putting it far more pointedly and politely than I likely would have. bb, you can't possibly be that ignorant of what's going on around you. This economy is for ****, and there are countless people out there who did everything right and have no job.

 

[jen]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Thank you for putting it far more pointedly and politely than I likely would have. bb, you can't possibly be that ignorant of what's going on around you. This economy is for ****, and there are countless people out there who did everything right and have no job.

I also understand why bbdl posted in the first place - Twitch seemed to make a blanket statement that everyone under 30 is depressed, which, as bbdl said, isn't correct. My take on it was bbdl was saying it's not a generational problem - and I completely agree.

but then he lost me on the part where he said he wasn't lucky.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

people who think unemployment and lack of respect are problems specific to one generation grind my gears.



In a good economy, I would agree. In this economy - I don't find that to be the case. Plenty of hard workers, with years of valuable professional experience, that made all the "right" choices - still get laid off, through absolutely no fault of their own. This is happening to every generation - not just recent grads.

Being lucky doesn't mean you didn't also work hard - but what about the people who worked equally as hard, or even harder - and still don't have jobs?

I would say that the person that worked hard, made the right decisions, and still finds himself/herself laid off has bad luck. If they did everything, or most everything right and still got **** on, then hell yeah, they have some pretty ****ty luck. But on the flip side, to say that the reason that I, or anyone else, who is currently employed, with a good job and successful, is there because they have good luck...that is downright insulting.

edit: maybe put a little more clearly: The reason someone who worked hard is currently employed and successful is not because they are lucky, it is because they worked hard and did the right things. At the same time, someone who also worked hard, and ended up getting **** on, is in that position despite their hard work, and is suffering from some bad luck.

 

[jen]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I would say that the person that worked hard, made the right decisions, and still finds himself/herself laid off has bad luck. If they did everything, or most everything right and still got **** on, then hell yeah, they have some pretty ****ty luck. But on the flip side, to say that the reason that I, or anyone else, who is currently employed, with a good job and successful, is there because they have good luck...that is downright insulting.

and I think you saying you're not lucky is downright insulting to people who may have worked harder than you or had more experience, and STILL got let go. It can't be both ways. You can't say they have bad luck, but then claim you're not lucky, when you have the exact same circumstances except for being employed.

"Lucky" does not cancel out everything else. It's possible to be good AND lucky, just as it's possible to be good and UNlucky.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I would say that the person that worked hard, made the right decisions, and still finds himself/herself laid off has bad luck. If they did everything, or most everything right and still got **** on, then hell yeah, they have some pretty ****ty luck. But on the flip side, to say that the reason that I, or anyone else, who is currently employed, with a good job and successful, is there because they have good luck...that is downright insulting.

Unemployment nationally is what, officially around 9%, realistically more like 16 to even 26 percent? Are the 74-91% lucky or the 9-26% unlucky? Seems like semantics to me.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I also understand why bbdl posted in the first place - Twitch seemed to make a blanket statement that everyone under 30 is depressed, which, as bbdl said, isn't correct. My take on it was bbdl was saying it's not a generational problem - and I completely agree.

You know, you're right, I suppose I did. Just like some older generations make blanket statements that we're all spoiled, entitled brats Still, for a lot of them it's gotta be getting frustrating out there, and it can't be good for them mentally.

I think the grievance here is that the Millennials are getting nothing but self-righteous vitriol from the Teabaggers and the older generations, when they need someone who can earn their trust, talk to them and say the following: "This isn't entirely your fault. What you were told growing up wasn't entirely true. Here's how you got the way you did, and here's some things you can do to make it better. Do these, and you might not get rich right away, but you'll get by. Everything's going to be all right."

If someone can cut through the vitriol and give them some honest, caring advice with their dignity and best interests in mind, I think they'll actually -gasp- listen. You can attract a lot more flies with honey than vinegar. Help them fix the problem, don't just spew hatred everywhere.

And I will admit: I took a hearty swig of the "go to college and you'll be a unique and precious snowflake with a six figure job" Kool-Aid. Fortunately, I had two caring parents to guide me the right way and I made smart choices about what to do when tish happened during college (changed majors from CS after seeing where it was going and got myself off of ac pro twice,) and I got ****ed lucky finding a stable job in the end. There but for the grace of FSM go I.

If you want to get at what makes the Millennials tick, look at how they were raised.

 

[theprofromdover]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

And I will admit: I took a hearty swig of the "go to college and you'll be a unique and precious snowflake with a six figure job" Kool-Aid. .

Sadly, an average college education today is the same as a high school degree when I went. Back then (just after the dinosaurs died) almost all colleges rejected most applicants. Now anyone can get into a 4 year degree college. This open door has degraded the value of an undergraduate degree in many fields.

 

[Almington]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Unemployment nationally is what, officially around 9%, realistically more like 16 to even 26 percent? Are the 74-91% lucky or the 9-26% unlucky? Seems like semantics to me.

I think that it is important to recognize that good luck and hard work are not mutually exclusive. You make choices that increase the probability of positive events (lucky things) happening to you, but their still exists a non-zero chance that negative events (unlucky things) can happen to anyone.

I wouldn't say that all of those unemployed are unlucky, some actually deserve to be unemployed. That said, those who are employed should consider themselves somewhat lucky that they are not among the unemployed through no direct actions of their own.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Sadly, an average college education today is the same as a high school degree when I went. Back then (just after the dinosaurs died) almost all colleges rejected most applicants. Now anyone can get into a 4 year degree college. This open door has degraded the value of an undergraduate degree in many fields.

Know what else it was? It was also a lot cheaper, especially compared to wages. You could work your way through college on a summer McJob, or take out a loan and have it paid off in a year, even if you didn't get that big six figure job right away. Also, not everyone went to college. Take my home state of Michigan. You could graduate high school and have a spot on the line at one of the Big 3 waiting for you, and you'd be all set for a nice middle class life. And that was a perfectly acceptable way to be a productive member of society. Now you're viewed as sub-human if you try that (if you can even find one of those jobs nowadays.)

The "everyone's gotta go to college" demand combined with federally guaranteed loans has caused a massive rise in price of an investment whose real value is falling fast. That ain't good.

 

[collegehcky2]

I would say that the person that worked hard, made the right decisions, and still finds himself/herself laid off has bad luck. If they did everything, or most everything right and still got **** on, then hell yeah, they have some pretty ****ty luck. But on the flip side, to say that the reason that I, or anyone else, who is currently employed, with a good job and successful, is there because they have good luck...that is downright insulting.

edit: maybe put a little more clearly: The reason someone who worked hard is currently employed and successful is not because they are lucky, it is because they worked hard and did the right things. At the same time, someone who also worked hard, and ended up getting **** on, is in that position despite their hard work, and is suffering from some bad luck.

I agree with this considerably. My friends who are unemployed or are working hourly jobs or are still in school say how lucky I got with my job. Bull****, I had been working manual labor since I was fifteen so I could save money for college, a car, and spending money. I made minimum wage, worked 60 hour weeks, gave up my weekends to get good recommendations. I'll admit I coasted through my bachelors and masters but I had good grades and I learned a lot. I applied to over 50 jobs last January and I had interviews until I got the one I have now. When did putting time and effort into reaching a goal come to mean I got lucky? I just started paying off my school loans and I'm doing well for myself. But I understand there are people who have been less fortunate than I, do I feel sympathetic? Yes, but at the same time it's amazing to think that people can say luck is why people under 30 are employed or what not.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I'm doing just fine.... Life isn't that bad.

Sure seem mad at everybody else.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Sure seem mad at everybody else.

Mad? I'm just having a conversation...if I'm coming off as mad, that is not what I intended.

 

[Almington]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Know what else it was? It was also a lot cheaper, especially compared to wages. You could work your way through college on a summer McJob, or take out a loan and have it paid off in a year, even if you didn't get that big six figure job right away. Also, not everyone went to college. Take my home state of Michigan. You could graduate high school and have a spot on the line at one of the Big 3 waiting for you, and you'd be all set for a nice middle class life. And that was a perfectly acceptable way to be a productive member of society. Now you're viewed as sub-human if you try that (if you can even find one of those jobs nowadays.)

The "everyone's gotta go to college" demand combined with federally guaranteed loans has caused a massive rise in price of an investment whose real value is falling fast. That ain't good.

The massive decline in state funding for post-secondary education that has been made up for by tuition increases can't be ignored.

The fact that student loans, including private student loans, can not be discharged in bankruptcy has resulted in lenders being willing to provide $100K in loans for someone to get an BA in a field with an annual average salary in the $30k-$40k range or have little chance of actually graduating. Just poor underwriting standards contributing to a higher education bubble.

We (as in society) need to stop selling college as an absolute positive and a guarantee of a better life. Odds are that it will be good and that it will make your life better, but it isn't completely risk free choice.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

and I think you saying you're not lucky is downright insulting to people who may have worked harder than you or had more experience, and STILL got let go. It can't be both ways. You can't say they have bad luck, but then claim you're not lucky, when you have the exact same circumstances except for being employed.

"Lucky" does not cancel out everything else. It's possible to be good AND lucky, just as it's possible to be good and UNlucky.

Bingo!

Sorry bbdl I get what you are saying but I am not sure you could be more offbase. I know as many slackers that find themselves with jobs and do well in them as I do hard workers without jobs...luck matters all the way around man.

 

[johnnypohlfan]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

I agree with this considerably. My friends who are unemployed or are working hourly jobs or are still in school say how lucky I got with my job. Bull****, I had been working manual labor since I was fifteen so I could save money for college, a car, and spending money. I made minimum wage, worked 60 hour weeks, gave up my weekends to get good recommendations. I'll admit I coasted through my bachelors and masters but I had good grades and I learned a lot. I applied to over 50 jobs last January and I had interviews until I got the one I have now. When did putting time and effort into reaching a goal come to mean I got lucky? I just started paying off my school loans and I'm doing well for myself. But I understand there are people who have been less fortunate than I, do I feel sympathetic? Yes, but at the same time it's amazing to think that people can say luck is why people under 30 are employed or what not.

I don't get what's so hard to understand on our side of this argument. No one here is saying luck is the be-all-end-all in anyone's employment status. But it does play a role, whether you like to think so or not. You're to be commended for your efforts in landing a good job, but for every one case like you, there's some person who did the same exact thing and can either not get a job, or got a job and then was let go for circumstances far beyond his control. You're saying that person is not the least bit unlucky?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

Bingo!

Sorry bbdl I get what you are saying but I am not sure you could be more offbase. I know as many slackers that find themselves with jobs and do well in them as I do hard workers without jobs...luck matters all the way around man.

I was raised to believe that you make your own luck. Sorry, that is just the way I am. I have found that the way I was raised, on the farm, working our asses off starting at about 10 years old, gives a different perspective on these types of things than people that don't share that same experience. It is also what drove me to get a good degree, and a good job so I didn't have bust my *** on the farm all day everyday for the rest of my life. (ironically, at about the same time I left for college, much of the physical labor was taken out of our farming operation, so I'd have ended up having a more laid back life on the farm than I do now )

 

[Handyman]

Re: Ginding away- stop putting sand in my oil... Part 4

No need to apologize for your personal philosophy...I just happen to disagree