Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

[Kepler]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

"Long may she reign" Nope. I can't decide if I want Tyrion to kill her, Jamie to run her through or a dragon to burn her alive.

Jamie wuvs her. Tyrion already did his murder. The only person who should kill Cersei is Cersei.

The way this should end is for all the lines to be exterminated and the people create an anarcho-syndicalist commune and barter their specialty goods with one another.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

The way this should end is for all the lines to be exterminated and the people create an anarcho-syndicalist commune and barter their specialty goods with one another.

Well, the greatest champion for the smallfolk just got incinerated in the Great Sept of Baelor.

And most GOT fans are cheering about it.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

Who rules the Twins and River Run now that the Frey line has ended?

Did Arya let poor Edmure out of his cell before she left?

Yeah, there is no way Arya killed all 100 of Walder's heirs.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

I'm pretty sure Garlan was mentioned in past episodes by Granny Martell during her discussion with Sansa, mentioning that he just stays at home for his reasons.

How many Freys did Arya have to kill in order to wipe out that line? The guy had kids like a jack rabbit. As to Edmure, we don't know that Arya knew he was in the castle; she could go back to free him during mop up operations but it would've been unlikely to do prior to de-Freying of River Run.

Yes, there is another Tyrell, not sure if if is Garlan or Wylas, but at one point in the show Sansa was told after her engagement to Joffrey was ended that she'd be married to a Tyrell. She thought they were talking about Loras, but they were talking about, I think, Garlan.

As for living Lannisters, there are some. I believe that Kevan Lannister's son Willem is still living. He had 3 sons, Lancel (dead), Martyn (killed by Karstarks while in Robb's custody) and Willem (sent away by Robb, for his own protection). Tygett Lannister's son Tyrek still should be out there, but I don't think he's made an appearance in the show. Also, there are the children of Genna Lannister and Emmon Frey.

For the Baratheons, saving a last minute appearance of Gendry or Mya Stone, they're done, as far as I can tell.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

Jamie wuvs her. Tyrion already did his murder. The only person who should kill Cersei is Cersei.

No, according to the prophesy, it will be the valonqar. This could be many different people, the 2 most obvious being Tyrion or Jaime. But, I could see it being Arya, wearing a face of a valonqar.

edit: Also, that look on Jaime's face wasn't love. I think TV show Jaime has taken up book Jaime's attitude towards Cersei

 

[bronconick]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

Well, the greatest champion for the smallfolk just got incinerated in the Great Sept of Baelor.

And most GOT fans are cheering about it.

If they weren't racing the show toward the end, there'd be a civil war like Meereen in KL.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

They're not racing to the end anymore. The next 2 seasons have been shortened to avoid unnecessary padding. At the producers' request.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

They're not racing to the end anymore. The next 2 seasons have been shortened to avoid unnecessary padding. At the producers' request.

The GoT podcast I listen to were talking about this, and they said that HBO has backed away from that statement from the producers. They said it seems like HBO might be pushing them to make 2 more full seasons, and they haven't come to an agreement yet. While I like the idea of more episodes, I don't want it watered down. If there isn't enough content to do 2 full seasons, then I hope they do shorten them.

 

[ticapnews]

How many Freys did Arya have to kill in order to wipe out that line? The guy had kids like a jack rabbit. As to Edmure, we don't know that Arya knew he was in the castle; she could go back to free him during mop up operations but it would've been unlikely to do prior to de-Freying of River Run.

I was mostly kidding about ending the line. I know Walder has a ton of kids, but those were the two he seemed to trust the most because he gave them River Run and was meeting with them until Arya did some carving. If they were the smart ones Walder must have had some real winners in his family tree...

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

I was mostly kidding about ending the line. I know Walder has a ton of kids, but those were the two he seemed to trust the most because he gave them River Run and was meeting with them until Arya did some carving. If they were the smart ones Walder must have had some real winners in his family tree...

Looking at the Frey family tree, in order of succession...

Children from his marriage with Perra Royce -
1st (Walder's 1st born) - Stevron Frey (Dead)
2nd (Stevron's 1st born) - Ryman Frey (Dead)
3rd (Ryman's 1st born) - Edwyn Frey (Alive!)
4th (Ryman's 2nd born) - "Black" Walder Frey (Dead)
5th (Ryman's 3rd born) - Petyr "Pimple" Frey (Dead)

So, if the TV show is going to follow the books, in order of succession, and not cut characters out, the Lord of the Crossing should be Edwyn Frey now.

After this, the order gets really messy, but one more to note:

Walder's 2nd born - Emmon Frey (Emmon has already been given the title of Lord of Riverrun in the books, mostly because he's married to Genna Lannister)

 

[ticapnews]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

Jamie wuvs her. Tyrion already did his murder. The only person who should kill Cersei is Cersei.

Jamie loved the old Cersei. She was responsible for the death of their last remaining child. Plus the "kingslayer" slight has followed him all his life. He no longer has honor. His name is only as good as the Lannister gold or armies - it carries no weight on its own. Just look how the Blackfish laughed at him when he promised his word. Hell, scum like Walder Frey consider themselves his equal. Cersei has now done exactly what he betrayed his king to prevent. The very act that stained his name and ruined his reputation for life. If there's any redeeming Jamie, that has to mean something.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

Cersei has now done exactly what he betrayed his king to prevent. The very act that stained his name and ruined his reputation for life. If there's any redeeming Jamie, that has to mean something.

I have read Jamie's potential for redemption in a completely different way. I think Jamie has been learning that "honor" is dangerous BS that gets other people killed, and that good is synonymous with evaluating individuals on their complex merits and dispensing with "principles" as the inhuman impositions they are.

The question now is has Cersei become the Mad Queen. Jamie killed Aerys Targarean to stop him from taking down the city to avenge himself. Cersei took out the ruling class of the city to save both herself and the city from Westeros ISIS. Up until that point I assumed Cersei was completely sane, albeit as ruthless as Tywin. But when Tommen couldn't fly her last child's death may have driven her into Funnyland. We'll have to see.

If Cersei is mad, she may kill Jamie and then herself thus bringing everything full circle (bringing the children into the world, taking the parents out of it; Jamie killing the king, killed by the queen).

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who see Cersei as the good guy in her battle against the Sparrows.

But I figured Cersei going McVeigh on the Sept would've helped set people straight. Clearly I was wrong.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who see Cersei as the good guy in her battle against the Sparrows.

But I figured Cersei going McVeigh on the Sept would've helped set people straight. Clearly I was wrong.

I don't think anyone likes Cersei. I sure don't. She's pure evil, but the High Sparrow was definitely a major religious zealot that needed to go as well. Cersei vs. The Sparrows was evil vs. evil, there is no good guy there, just a whole bunch of collateral damage.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who see Cersei as the good guy in her battle against the Sparrows.

But I figured Cersei going McVeigh on the Sept would've helped set people straight. Clearly I was wrong.

She's not good, she's not nice, she's just right.

Also: that dress didn't hurt.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who see Cersei as the good guy in her battle against the Sparrows.

But I figured Cersei going McVeigh on the Sept would've helped set people straight. Clearly I was wrong.

For me it was more of a lesser evil thought process. She's in no way a good person, or even in the right as she brought the High Sparrow to power. At the same time, I thought it was going to be more of sending Franken-Clegane into the Sept to start killing everyone who opposed him. Her method of dispatch proved much more effective, except for the loss of her son.

To place an exclamation point on her wicked and mostly inept way of thinking, she never posted a guard with Tommen to keep him from performing a swan dive after he learned that his mother had his wife killed. A king in that position may have felt captured and humiliated. Instead she expects everyone else in King's Landing to be a callow as she is.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

For me it was more of a lesser evil thought process. She's in no way a good person, or even in the right as she brought the High Sparrow to power. At the same time, I thought it was going to be more of sending Franken-Clegane into the Sept to start killing everyone who opposed him. Her method of dispatch proved much more effective, except for the loss of her son.

To place an exclamation point on her wicked and mostly inept way of thinking, she never posted a guard with Tommen to keep him from performing a swan dive after he learned that his mother had his wife killed. A king in that position may have felt captured and humiliated. Instead she expects everyone else in King's Landing to be a callow as she is.

Callous. Cersei is many things, but she isn't callow.

I kinda wondered whether Clegane may have deliberately interpreted his orders a little loosely. Cersai certainly wanted to save Tommen -- that's why she stopped him in the first place. Is it possible Clegane thought to himself, "you know, this little runt's really not up to the job. The lady, on the other hand, seems like queen material to me" and left his post a might early.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

She's not good, she's not nice, she's just right.

Also: that dress didn't hurt.

Let's put it this way: Cersei, a mass-murdering psychopath, is right. Meanwhile, the single greatest champion for the smallfolk, the only one fighting against feudalism, needed to go and is rooted against in favor of said mass-murdering psychopath.

To be fair, though, Cersei looks better in a dress. Even Lancel knew that.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

Let's put it this way: Cersei, a mass-murdering psychopath, is right. Meanwhile, the single greatest champion for the smallfolk, the only one fighting against feudalism, needed to go and is rooted against in favor of said mass-murdering psychopath.

To be fair, though, Cersei looks better in a dress. Even Lancel knew that.

The High Sparrow wasn't really a force for the small folk, he was another form of oppression. Yes, he handed out food and small bits of coin to the poor, but so did Margaery before she became flambé. The only difference is that she never did expecting anything of them and truly out of the good of her heart. Meanwhile he was looking to exert control, force religion upon people who may not have wanted any, and appease these gods of his. The only good person of the three who had contact in that story was the one character seemed to like the least, for reasons I simply don't understand.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

The High Sparrow wasn't really a force for the small folk, he was another form of oppression.

Yep. That's why he had Trial By Combat outlawed and immediately targeted the feudal elites.

But he's religious, so clearly he's the guy you should root against compared to the paranoid, power-mad woman who pretty much singlehandedly brought the realm into war-torn chaos and orchestrated mass-murder.

It's true that the sparrows aren't perfect, by any stretch. Especially when we apply our modern perspective on their views on homosexuality. But I defy you to tell me that the Faith Militant upending the crown isn't preferable to smallfolk than having them constantly at war over the petty whims of their feudal lords.

The path towards freedom for smallfolk doesn't come from continuing to be subject to the highborn. It certainly wasn't in medieval history.