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Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Well, there's your Dinklage Emmy nomination after that last scene

I was expecting him to make that very request earlier in the episode, but then thought that it might be considered a retread storywise. At the same time, it makes me think that the whole trial was a charade for Tywin to get the deal he wanted all along, knowing his sons as he does.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I was expecting him to make that very request earlier in the episode, but then thought that it might be considered a retread storywise. At the same time, it makes me think that the whole trial was a charade for Tywin to get the deal he wanted all along, knowing his sons as he does.
Does this set up Ser Jamie vs. The Mountain in the Trial by Combat? Let's see how well the now-former White Sword will fare with the left hand!

So let me see if I can pick out the cinematic end of Theon - he plays the "role of Theon" so convincingly he remembers himself at the end, sacrificing himself to save his sister from certain death at the hand of the Ramsey Snow - B%stard with a capital 'B'.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Does this set up Ser Jamie vs. The Mountain in the Trial by Combat? Let's see how well the now-former White Sword will fare with the left hand!

So let me see if I can pick out the cinematic end of Theon - he plays the "role of Theon" so convincingly he remembers himself at the end, sacrificing himself to save his sister from certain death at the hand of the Ramsey Snow - B%stard with a capital 'B'.
I don't think that the Mountain would make a good combatant for a trial by combat, at least not in this situation. Tywin wants the Martells onboard because he's worried about the Targaeryans, and if the Mountain prevails he loses both Jaime and Tyrion, ensure then end of his line because Jaime's sure to volunteer for Tyrion. Bron might volunteer, but he'd want to see his opponent before taking a risk like that. Other than that, Tyrion appears to be short on supporters in King's Landing these days.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Interesting observation in the recap/review on io9:

When Tyrion came to King's Landing, he'd just been appointed acting Hand of the King, and he was suddenly eager to prove that he was smarter than the previous Hand, Ned Stark. But last night's episode shows him facing the exact same fate as Ned, because he couldn't stop being too clever for his own good.

Tyrion's masterstroke was that he told three different people three different plans, to see which one got back to his sister Cersei: Littlefinger, Varys and Pycelle. Whoever told Cersei, Tyrion would know he couldn't trust. When Pycelle ratted Tyrion out to Cersei, Tyrion had Pycelle tossed in a black cell. And then Tyrion went ahead with his real plan, sending Cersei's only daughter Myrcella away to Dorne to be protected (or to be a hostage.)

There are a few key flaws in Tyrion's cunning ruse, however. First of all, he should have known already who he could trust: nobody. Second of all, the two people he came away deciding he could trust were Littlefinger (who framed him for murder, although he doesn't know that) and Varys (who just testified against him at his trial.) Third of all, he made an enemy of Pycelle, who is only too eager to make up crazy stories about Tyrion stealing every poison on Earth from Pycelle's stash.

This whole business of figuring out who you can trust is only slightly different than Ned Stark insisting on giving Cersei a fair warning before revealing her secret — in both cases, it betrays a misunderstanding of how the world works.

That's something I hadn't thought about before.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

A terrible calamity has befallen the Republic! Pirate Bay is down on Game of Thrones day!!!!!
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Well, there's your Dinklage Emmy nomination after that last scene

Yep. Fiance said, "wow that was really good" after it, I said "Yeah, that might win him an Emmy". My favorite Tyrion scene yet, and there have been so many good ones.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I don't think that the Mountain would make a good combatant for a trial by combat, at least not in this situation. Tywin wants the Martells onboard because he's worried about the Targaeryans, and if the Mountain prevails he loses both Jaime and Tyrion, ensure then end of his line because Jaime's sure to volunteer for Tyrion. Bron might volunteer, but he'd want to see his opponent before taking a risk like that. Other than that, Tyrion appears to be short on supporters in King's Landing these days.

Right. This puts Tywin in a tough situation, he won't want Jaime to be killed for all of the reasons you say. I wonder if Tywin would even expect Jaime to stand for Tyrion...This is the way for Tyrion to get out of it completely.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Given the discussion from non-book readers in this thread, I think maybe the show hasn't really done a good enough job setting up why Oberyn will eventually stand for Tyrion in the trial by combat. In the books, a rapport was cultivated that supported it better.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Right. This puts Tywin in a tough situation, he won't want Jaime to be killed for all of the reasons you say. I wonder if Tywin would even expect Jaime to stand for Tyrion...This is the way for Tyrion to get out of it completely.

You know, if Tywin did call the Mountain in as a champion for the Crown, it might be a setup to give Prince Oberyn the chance to kill him in single combat, acting as Tyrion's champion. Just a thought, but it seems like a long one to me.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I was expecting him to make that very request earlier in the episode, but then thought that it might be considered a retread storywise. At the same time, it makes me think that the whole trial was a charade for Tywin to get the deal he wanted all along, knowing his sons as he does.

Yeah, that's the vibe I got from it. Tywin was too quick to say yes when Jamie made his offer.

I just knew Tyrion was too proud, and had too much character to beg for mercy for something he hadn't done. That last scene was wonderful.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Right. This puts Tywin in a tough situation, he won't want Jaime to be killed for all of the reasons you say. I wonder if Tywin would even expect Jaime to stand for Tyrion...This is the way for Tyrion to get out of it completely.
Whatever Tywin's motivations or expectations, there's no getting around the Laws of Gods and Men - that Cersei stands as the accuser. She gets to decide who will be her champion - she gets that Jaime is very sympathetic to Tirion (he's ready to rule at Casterly Rock as part of the original deal to save Tirion's life - something he was unwilling to do earlier), and Tirion is the one person in the Seven Kingdoms she despises the most. So she'd rather sacrifice whoever she can, and will take no chances when picking a champion. She only really loves / loved her children. Bron or Jaime for the accused? Possibilities. Also one guy has defeated Ser Gregor to date (Loras Tyrell).
 
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Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

You know, if Tywin did call the Mountain in as a champion for the Crown, it might be a setup to give Prince Oberyn the chance to kill him in single combat, acting as Tyrion's champion. Just a thought, but it seems like a long one to me.

;)
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Well, technically he was defeated by the horse Loras was riding on.

His brother fought him to a stalemate, though.
And yeah the Hound saved Ser Loras' butt back in the good ole jousting days, but he's clearly got enough on his hands with a little Stark.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

If you're giving an not at all subtle hint that I figured out what will actually happen because you've read the books, please don't do that anymore.

This.


I don't care if anyone has read the books, keep it to yourself. This is a thread about the TV series, not the books, if you want to discuss the books, start a new thread.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

This.

I don't care if anyone has read the books, keep it to yourself. This is a thread about the TV series, not the books, if you want to discuss the books, start a new thread.

I don't really care either way (I read one book and while I respect the universe and GRRM's point of not letting people live just because they're good, I'm not gonna read a series or watch a tv show where literally everyone you care about gets killed off), but that's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? The answers are out there, but because you guys don't want to read it, you can't talk about it? Isn't that a bit like saying "Don't spoil the end of the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter" when those movies came out, even though the books had been out there for years or, in the LotR example, decades prior? I guess most recently, can we not spoil how the end of the Hunger Games or Hobbit movies will end?

You can speculate on what happens, but people who have read the books can't speculate on how the tv show will mesh with/change/stay true to the books?
 
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Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I don't really care either way (I read one book and while I respect the universe and GRRM's point of not letting people live just because they're good, I'm not gonna read a series or watch a tv show where literally everyone you care about gets killed off), but that's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? The answers are out there, but because you guys don't want to read it, you can't talk about it? Isn't that a bit like saying "Don't spoil the end of the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter" when those movies came out, even though the books had been out there for years or, in the LotR example, decades prior?

You can speculate on what happens, but people who have read the books can't speculate on how the tv show will mesh/change/stay true to the books?

Sure you can...in a different thread. There is a reason the AV Club has 2 separate reviews of the show each week.
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I don't really care either way (I read one book and while I respect the universe and GRRM's point of not letting people live just because they're good, I'm not gonna read a series or watch a tv show where literally everyone you care about gets killed off), but that's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? The answers are out there, but because you guys don't want to read it, you can't talk about it? Isn't that a bit like saying "Don't spoil the end of the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter" when those movies came out, even though the books had been out there for years or, in the LotR example, decades prior? I guess most recently, can we not spoil how the end of the Hunger Games or Hobbit movies will end?

You can speculate on what happens, but people who have read the books can't speculate on how the tv show will mesh with/change/stay true to the books?
Do you think its fair to those who haven't read the books to say I wonder how they'll kill Ned Stark? If they'll hold to the book and have Sansa watching, etc? Obviously I'm using a very early example...
 
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Do you think its fair to those who haven't read the books to say I wonder how they'll kill Ned Stark? If they'll hold to the book and have Sansa watching, etc? Obviously I'm using a very early example...

I think its fair when the source material has been out there for awhile; we're not talking about a leaked script or a contemporaneous novelization, for instance. In this case, it's been three years since Book 5 came out, and a whopping nine years since Book 4 (again, having only read book 1, I have no clue how far along the tv series is, but if a season = a book, then we're talking about stuff that has been readily available to the public for nearly a decade). The original book came out almost 20 years ago.

As amusing as the reaction to the whole Red Wedding scene was on twitter/facebook/etc was, a lot of that amusement came from the fact that people were surprised by something that was written down over 10 years earlier.
 
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