Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I think its fair when the source material has been out there for awhile; we're not talking about a leaked script or a contemporaneous novelization, for instance. In this case, it's been three years since Book 5 came out, and a whopping nine years since Book 4 (again, having only read book 1, I have no clue how far along the tv series is, but if a season = a book, then we're talking about stuff that has been readily available to the public for nearly a decade). The original book came out almost 20 years ago.

As amusing as the reaction to the whole Red Wedding scene was on twitter/facebook/etc was, a lot of that amusement came from the fact that people were surprised by something that was written down over 10 years earlier.

You really don't get the fact that lots of people haven't read the books. Some of the books may be over a decade old but they weren't popular a decade ago to the general public like Lord of the Rings. I just think its silly to jump in here and drop spoilers to people who haven't read the books and don't plan to make time to read the books. The red wedding happened and you think it would have been fine to come in here and wonder how they'll kill all those people before we even know it's happen?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

The books, as good as they are, are quite laborious to read. It's fair to not have to expect people to know what happens.

And the fact that people can find more information on what happened in the books is all the more reason not to talk about it here. If people want to see what happens without reading or waiting for the show to catch up, there's a wiki with tons of detailed chapter summaries from the books. No need to discuss those points here.

One of the cool things about how fandom of this show has shaped is that many of the book readers have taken it upon themselves to not spoil things for the show-only people, and it's made events like Ned's death, the Red Wedding and the Purple Wedding that much more fun to see the reaction to.

So, all that said... don't spoil stuff from the books.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

The books, as good as they are, are quite laborious to read. It's fair to not have to expect people to know what happens.

And the fact that people can find more information on what happened in the books is all the more reason not to talk about it here. If people want to see what happens without reading or waiting for the show to catch up, there's a wiki with tons of detailed chapter summaries from the books. No need to discuss those points here.

One of the cool things about how fandom of this show has shaped is that many of the book readers have taken it upon themselves to not spoil things for the show-only people, and it's made events like ***** that much more fun to see the reaction to.

So, all that said... don't spoil stuff from the books.

I view this like I view comic books. Don't spoil every movie because I haven't read them when they came out 30 years ago.

 

[rufus]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Do you think its fair to those who haven't read the books to say I wonder how they'll kill Ned Stark? If they'll hold to the book and have Sansa watching, etc? Obviously I'm using a very early example...

Damm, now you ruined it!!!!

 

[97osu]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

If you're giving an not at all subtle hint that I figured out what will actually happen because you've read the books, please don't do that anymore.

I won't. I honestly thought you were writing it tongue in cheek, and was laughing along with you.

 

[unofan]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

You really don't get the fact that lots of people haven't read the books. Some of the books may be over a decade old but they weren't popular a decade ago to the general public like Lord of the Rings. I just think its silly to jump in here and drop spoilers to people who haven't read the books and don't plan to make time to read the books. The red wedding happened and you think it would have been fine to come in here and wonder how they'll kill all those people before we even know it's happen?

I think it's fine to do "I wonder if they'll go thru with the Red Wedding" or something like that. Before Lord of the Rings, people talked all the time about whether they were going to include the Scouring of the Shire, how they were going to do X, were they going to leave out Y, etc.

And if you go back and read LotR, it's a fairly "laborious" read too.

Yes, if you're coming in just to drop spoilers, that's a dick move. But if you're talking about something and a spoiler comes out through the natural course of discussion, I think that's fair game. At the least, I'm not going to feel sorry for a person who is too lazy to go through the source material.

 

[unofan]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I view this like I view comic books. Don't spoil every movie because I haven't read them when they came out 30 years ago.

The superheroes win.

 

[Foxton]

And if you go back and read LotR, it's a fairly "laborious" read too.

Lotr is far more laborious to read.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I won't. I honestly thought you were writing it tongue in cheek, and was laughing along with you.

no problem, if someone gets as close to the situation as I seem to have, then it would make sense you thought that. That said, I read the first two books, but I've found the show to be more fun than the books. I was told that season 3 of the show only covered the content of about half of book 3, so I'm waiting for the show's season to end before reading it.

I think it's fine to do "I wonder if they'll go thru with the Red Wedding" or something like that. Before Lord of the Rings, people talked all the time about whether they were going to include the Scouring of the Shire, how they were going to do X, were they going to leave out Y, etc.

And if you go back and read LotR, it's a fairly "laborious" read too.

Yes, if you're coming in just to drop spoilers, that's a dick move. But if you're talking about something and a spoiler comes out through the natural course of discussion, I think that's fair game. At the least, I'm not going to feel sorry for a person who is too lazy to go through the source material.

This thread was started for the show, not the books. And we had more or less a gentlemen's agreement earlier that any book scenes that could be seen as a spoiler would be camouflaged so the TV watchers could easily skip it without restricting the book readers from discussing the story amongst themselves.

There's a glaring difference between the two source materials, though. LotR was a classic, read by tens of millions of readers throughout the years, and the Song of Ice and Fire series was only mildly popular prior to the show airing. Add to that, having read LotR and now a couple GoT's books, LotR was laborious, but it was a great read, much better than what GRRM has written. It's to the point that I'd say you get a better experience for the LotR story if you read the books, but the GoT experience is better on TV - they're not bad books, but the show is better at telling the story I've read thus far. And yes, I read LotR for the first time after watching the first two movies, so I have a relatively similar background of the two franchises to use as comparison.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

And the show has boobs. Lots of boobs.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Shine on, you crazy Tully.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

What is George Martin going to do when he runs out of Starks to kill?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

He'll kill Ser Pounce

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I think its fair when the source material has been out there for awhile; we're not talking about a leaked script or a contemporaneous novelization, for instance. In this case, it's been three years since Book 5 came out, and a whopping nine years since Book 4 (again, having only read book 1, I have no clue how far along the tv series is, but if a season = a book, then we're talking about stuff that has been readily available to the public for nearly a decade). The original book came out almost 20 years ago.

Then you're a ****ing *****.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I did not see that ending coming at all. It's really an interesting way to end the episode, it even had me actively wondering about the future for a character that I don't much like.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I did not see that ending coming at all. It's really an interesting way to end the episode, it even had me actively wondering about the future for a character that I don't much like.

I saw it coming, predicted that it would happen as soon as Sansa walked into the room, but I didn't actually think it would happen right away until about a minute later in the scene. I like the direction that storyline is going, with the other characters heading that direction. I think Littlefinger has become one of the more interesting characters, and I am enjoying his rising in the ranks by whatever means necessary. Now I really want to see Robin "fly".

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I saw it coming, predicted that it would happen as soon as Sansa walked into the room, but I didn't actually think it would happen right away until about a minute later in the scene. I like the direction that storyline is going, with the other characters heading that direction. I think Littlefinger has become one of the more interesting characters, and I am enjoying his rising in the ranks by whatever means necessary. Now I really want to see Robin "fly".

I didn't think anyone would taste the sky, rather thant Baelish would talk evyerone into an uneasy peace, or something like it.

If Robin "flies," how does that impact the rulership in the Vale? Baelish married Lysa, and it's well heard that they consumated their marriage. If Robin bombs out, does rule then transfer to Little Finger or one of Robin's uncles, if he has any?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I didn't think anyone would taste the sky, rather thant Baelish would talk evyerone into an uneasy peace, or something like it.

If Robin "flies," how does that impact the rulership in the Vale? Baelish married Lysa, and it's well heard that they consumated their marriage. If Robin bombs out, does rule then transfer to Little Finger or one of Robin's uncles, if he has any?

I thought it was ruled by the Iron Throne that Baelish was to go to the Vale, and Marry Lysa, and I thought at that time he was given some kind of authority, but maybe that is incorrect. I would guess that the way it is set up, Lord Baelish will end up being Lord of the Vale. I don't remember hearing that Lysa and Catlyn had any other siblings. Besides, with the way Littlefinger is going about his business, if they do, they probably aren't long for this life. (well, other than Edmure)

edit: just did some google seaches, and realized that I completely forgot about Catlyn and Lysa's uncle. Is he still alive? I don't remember.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I thought it was ruled by the Iron Throne that Baelish was to go to the Vale, and Marry Lysa, and I thought at that time he was given some kind of authority, but maybe that is incorrect. I would guess that the way it is set up, Lord Baelish will end up being Lord of the Vale. I don't remember hearing that Lysa and Catlyn had any other siblings. Besides, with the way Littlefinger is going about his business, if they do, they probably aren't long for this life. (well, other than Edmure)

edit: just did some google seaches, and realized that I completely forgot about Catlyn and Lysa's uncle. Is he still alive? I don't remember.

John Arryn's family - Little Lord Robin's father's side of the family, is more what I was thinking of in terms of order of succession for the Vale. Baelish was awarded Harrenhall and its lands for his deeds in helping the Realm during the fight for King's Landing. He was ordered to the Vale to help bring it back into the fold with the Realm, but I don't know that he was given orders by Joffrey or Tywin to marry Lysa in order to do so. I'd expect that twist was all him, trying to establish himself as the Lord with the largest holdings, to become the richest, and thus challenge Tommen's hold on the throne.

ETA: And I do believe the Blackfish (Catlyn's and Lysa's uncle) is still alive.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

John Arryn's family - Little Lord Robin's father's side of the family, is more what I was thinking of in terms of order of succession for the Vale. Baelish was awarded Harrenhall and its lands for his deeds in helping the Realm during the fight for King's Landing. He was ordered to the Vale to help bring it back into the fold with the Realm, but I don't know that he was given orders by Joffrey or Tywin to marry Lysa in order to do so. I'd expect that twist was all him, trying to establish himself as the Lord with the largest holdings, to become the richest, and thus challenge Tommen's hold on the throne.

Ah ok, I don't know anything about the Arryn family, other than John and Robin. I don't know if they don't exist, or they just haven't been talked about yet. I remember that Littlefinger was given Harrenhall, but I thought there was some edict to marry Lysa, but maybe it was implied and Littlefinger took it upon himself.