ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
This is a fun turn of events, to be sure.
This is a fun turn of events, to be sure.
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Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
- Thread starter owslachief
- Start date
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
I will say that there are two things from the Purple Wedding in the book that I'm surprised weren't present in the show version:
1. Joffrey tearing at his throat as he was choking. It would've been cartoonish and silly to have it happen as it did in the books, but I thought the show actually took it a little easy on Joffrey in terms of how much he was suffering as he choked. Now, that said, the prop/CGI department did a good job with his bodily fluids, which did give it a cool look.
2. In the books, the incident at breakfast with the book and his new Valyrian sword serve as a way to eventually reveal who had sent the assassin to kill Bran back in A Game of Thrones (S1). While Lost has taught us not to be surprised at dangling threads, I really thought that this was going to come back up. Especially after Pycelle made his comment to warn Joffrey about how sharp Valyrian blades are. He could've said something along the lines of "I'm aware" instead of "So they say" and that would've given Tyrion enough ammo to talk about it with Jaime while he awaits his trial.
I will say that there are two things from the Purple Wedding in the book that I'm surprised weren't present in the show version:
1. Joffrey tearing at his throat as he was choking. It would've been cartoonish and silly to have it happen as it did in the books, but I thought the show actually took it a little easy on Joffrey in terms of how much he was suffering as he choked. Now, that said, the prop/CGI department did a good job with his bodily fluids, which did give it a cool look.
2. In the books, the incident at breakfast with the book and his new Valyrian sword serve as a way to eventually reveal who had sent the assassin to kill Bran back in A Game of Thrones (S1). While Lost has taught us not to be surprised at dangling threads, I really thought that this was going to come back up. Especially after Pycelle made his comment to warn Joffrey about how sharp Valyrian blades are. He could've said something along the lines of "I'm aware" instead of "So they say" and that would've given Tyrion enough ammo to talk about it with Jaime while he awaits his trial.
owslachief
occupe toi de tes oignons
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
It's certainly not Tyrion's style, and he wouldn't be so sloppy as to have himself immediately implicated.
Could it be Sansa, who - after all - handed Tyrion the cup (was it the fatefull cup?). She'd certainly have reason to want the king dead, and wouldn't be all that sorry for Tyrion to take the fall. Note however the Fool had to beg her to make her exit.
What about the Fool? Yes he was humiliated by Joffrey in season 1 and thanked Sansa in that seemingly innocuous encounter in S4 episode 1. But is he fool enough to simply want revenge and Sansa's gratitude - or to repay his debt to her?
Oberyn seeths with hatred for the Lannisters but murdering the king wouldn't bring down the family. Curious that he arrives far ahead of his countrymen for the event, though. He may have had some unseen meeting with Baelish.
I'm looking at someone who could both want Tyrion out of the way, and Joffrey dead - no longer a disgrace to his grandfather. Margaery nee Tyrell would not become an immediate threat - she'd retain the title of Queen Dowager but would wield no real power. So Jamie, who's already emphatically turned down Casterly Rock is the natural successor. Convenient for Tywin.
Then there is the former queen regent, Cersei. She has alot actually to gain from this - two of those reasons she has in common with her father Tywin. Margaery would be brought down, she still has quite a hold over Jamie and there's no telling how much influence she'd have as a result. Was it her cup that Tyrion ended up with at the end, as Joffrey's new cup bearer? If so, quite the performance at the end as the grieving, accusing mother
.
It's certainly not Tyrion's style, and he wouldn't be so sloppy as to have himself immediately implicated.
Could it be Sansa, who - after all - handed Tyrion the cup (was it the fatefull cup?). She'd certainly have reason to want the king dead, and wouldn't be all that sorry for Tyrion to take the fall. Note however the Fool had to beg her to make her exit.
What about the Fool? Yes he was humiliated by Joffrey in season 1 and thanked Sansa in that seemingly innocuous encounter in S4 episode 1. But is he fool enough to simply want revenge and Sansa's gratitude - or to repay his debt to her?
Oberyn seeths with hatred for the Lannisters but murdering the king wouldn't bring down the family. Curious that he arrives far ahead of his countrymen for the event, though. He may have had some unseen meeting with Baelish.
I'm looking at someone who could both want Tyrion out of the way, and Joffrey dead - no longer a disgrace to his grandfather. Margaery nee Tyrell would not become an immediate threat - she'd retain the title of Queen Dowager but would wield no real power. So Jamie, who's already emphatically turned down Casterly Rock is the natural successor. Convenient for Tywin.
Then there is the former queen regent, Cersei. She has alot actually to gain from this - two of those reasons she has in common with her father Tywin. Margaery would be brought down, she still has quite a hold over Jamie and there's no telling how much influence she'd have as a result. Was it her cup that Tyrion ended up with at the end, as Joffrey's new cup bearer? If so, quite the performance at the end as the grieving, accusing mother
.ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
Considering that the throne now passes to Tommen, there are a lot of people with a lot to gain from this.
Should be fun to see how this pans out (and how closely it follows the books).
Considering that the throne now passes to Tommen, there are a lot of people with a lot to gain from this.
Should be fun to see how this pans out (and how closely it follows the books).
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
I don't think it's Cersei. She's already killed many people to keep the secret of Joffrey's lineage. She's been highly protective of Joffrey.
I would rule out Ser Dontos because he's already shown himself to be something of a coward, and too much of a lush, to pull off something like this. Remember, this is the guy who got too drunk to fight during Joffrey's nameday celebration.
My money's on Sansa with help from Little Finger. She had the opportunity with the goblet and certainly had the motive, and Little Finger said he'd help her some time ago. Even though the guy's a snake, I think there's genuine affection for Katelyn Tully and now her daughter. Add to that, there are other advantages to putting the kingdom into disarray.
Lady Olenna(? - the elderly Tyrell) could be considered as suspect, too. She's heard stories of Joffrey, and likely wants to protect her granddaughter from the sadistic bas tard. At the same time Margaery Tyrell had too much to lose by being involved, and she had already done a decent job of manipulating Joffrey into putting on the appearance of kindness with giving to the poor, so she'd be less worried about him than others would.
Heck, maybe it's Tommen. Second born sons have often tried to kill their older, childless brothers in order to get the throne. And that kid's been too quiet throughout the whole series.
It's certainly not Tyrion's style, and he wouldn't be so sloppy as to have himself immediately implicated.
Could it be Sansa, who - after all - handed Tyrion the cup (was it the fatefull cup?). She'd certainly have reason to want the king dead, and wouldn't be all that sorry for Tyrion to take the fall. Note however the Fool had to beg her to make her exit.
What about the Fool? Yes he was humiliated by Joffrey in season 1 and thanked Sansa in that seemingly innocuous encounter in S4 episode 1. But is he fool enough to simply want revenge and Sansa's gratitude - or to repay his debt to her?
Oberyn seeths with hatred for the Lannisters but murdering the king wouldn't bring down the family. Curious that he arrives far ahead of his countrymen for the event, though. He may have had some unseen meeting with Baelish.
I'm looking at someone who could both want Tyrion out of the way, and Joffrey dead - no longer a disgrace to his grandfather. Margaery nee Tyrell would not become an immediate threat - she'd retain the title of Queen Dowager but would wield no real power. So Jamie, who's already emphatically turned down Casterly Rock is the natural successor. Convenient for Tywin.
Then there is the former queen regent, Cersei. She has alot actually to gain from this - two of those reasons she has in common with her father Tywin. Margaery would be brought down, she still has quite a hold over Jamie and there's no telling how much influence she'd have as a result. Was it her cup that Tyrion ended up with at the end, as Joffrey's new cup bearer? If so, quite the performance at the end as the grieving, accusing mother
I don't think it's Cersei. She's already killed many people to keep the secret of Joffrey's lineage. She's been highly protective of Joffrey.
I would rule out Ser Dontos because he's already shown himself to be something of a coward, and too much of a lush, to pull off something like this. Remember, this is the guy who got too drunk to fight during Joffrey's nameday celebration.
My money's on Sansa with help from Little Finger. She had the opportunity with the goblet and certainly had the motive, and Little Finger said he'd help her some time ago. Even though the guy's a snake, I think there's genuine affection for Katelyn Tully and now her daughter. Add to that, there are other advantages to putting the kingdom into disarray.
Lady Olenna(? - the elderly Tyrell) could be considered as suspect, too. She's heard stories of Joffrey, and likely wants to protect her granddaughter from the sadistic bas tard. At the same time Margaery Tyrell had too much to lose by being involved, and she had already done a decent job of manipulating Joffrey into putting on the appearance of kindness with giving to the poor, so she'd be less worried about him than others would.
Heck, maybe it's Tommen. Second born sons have often tried to kill their older, childless brothers in order to get the throne. And that kid's been too quiet throughout the whole series.
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
It has to be the Cersei twist? She remains Queen and has the ear of her young son who would become "The Boy King" ?
It's certainly not Tyrion's style, and he wouldn't be so sloppy as to have himself immediately implicated.
Could it be Sansa, who - after all - handed Tyrion the cup (was it the fatefull cup?). She'd certainly have reason to want the king dead, and wouldn't be all that sorry for Tyrion to take the fall. Note however the Fool had to beg her to make her exit.
What about the Fool? Yes he was humiliated by Joffrey in season 1 and thanked Sansa in that seemingly innocuous encounter in S4 episode 1. But is he fool enough to simply want revenge and Sansa's gratitude - or to repay his debt to her?
Oberyn seeths with hatred for the Lannisters but murdering the king wouldn't bring down the family. Curious that he arrives far ahead of his countrymen for the event, though. He may have had some unseen meeting with Baelish.
I'm looking at someone who could both want Tyrion out of the way, and Joffrey dead - no longer a disgrace to his grandfather. Margaery nee Tyrell would not become an immediate threat - she'd retain the title of Queen Dowager but would wield no real power. So Jamie, who's already emphatically turned down Casterly Rock is the natural successor. Convenient for Tywin.
Then there is the former queen regent, Cersei. She has alot actually to gain from this - two of those reasons she has in common with her father Tywin. Margaery would be brought down, she still has quite a hold over Jamie and there's no telling how much influence she'd have as a result. Was it her cup that Tyrion ended up with at the end, as Joffrey's new cup bearer? If so, quite the performance at the end as the grieving, accusing mother
It has to be the Cersei twist? She remains Queen and has the ear of her young son who would become "The Boy King" ?
owslachief
occupe toi de tes oignons
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
Without hitting the DVR, why was the camera trained on the pie for that 2 seconds or so?
Without hitting the DVR, why was the camera trained on the pie for that 2 seconds or so?
owslachief
occupe toi de tes oignons
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
I'd be a little disappointed, I suppose - wouldn't it be delicious symmetry to know two of Tywin's children killed a mad king?
I'd be a little disappointed, I suppose - wouldn't it be delicious symmetry to know two of Tywin's children killed a mad king?
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
Showing the viciousness of Joffrey. Inside the pie, as you know, were a bunch of pigeons. Normally, a person would slice off the top in order to set the birds free. Instead, Joffrey slices down, and obvious intent to kill when killing need not happen.
Showing the viciousness of Joffrey. Inside the pie, as you know, were a bunch of pigeons. Normally, a person would slice off the top in order to set the birds free. Instead, Joffrey slices down, and obvious intent to kill when killing need not happen.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
If you re-watch it, it basically shows who killed him.
If you re-watch it, it basically shows who killed him.
johnnypohlfan
New member
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
I've read the books and watch the show, but did I miss something? Feel free to fill us in (in white text) or else message me. I didn't see anything obvious in the episode.
I've read the books and watch the show, but did I miss something? Feel free to fill us in (in white text) or else message me. I didn't see anything obvious in the episode.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
1. The old Grandmother took one of the stones off of Sansa's necklace that had poison in it and put it in Joffrey's wine - (don't click on for more spoilers http://beximilian.tumblr.com/)
1. The old Grandmother took one of the stones off of Sansa's necklace that had poison in it and put it in Joffrey's wine - (don't click on for more spoilers http://beximilian.tumblr.com/)
johnnypohlfan
New member
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
OK, thanks. I missed that part I guess. The book eludes to it from what I remember but I didn't notice the important part of that scene last night.
OK, thanks. I missed that part I guess. The book eludes to it from what I remember but I didn't notice the important part of that scene last night.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
The best part was when the grandmother told Sansa how awful it was that Robb was killed at a wedding.
The best part was when the grandmother told Sansa how awful it was that Robb was killed at a wedding.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
Wow, didn't expect them to get to that so quickly.
I see either of two suspects, spoilered for the rest of you guys.
Either Sansa when she picked up the goblet and handed it to Tyrion, or more likely, the old Tyrell matriarch after Margaery set the cup down on the table, and then had it handed back to her by the old crone
Wow, didn't expect them to get to that so quickly.
I see either of two suspects, spoilered for the rest of you guys.
Either Sansa when she picked up the goblet and handed it to Tyrion, or more likely, the old Tyrell matriarch after Margaery set the cup down on the table, and then had it handed back to her by the old crone
owslachief
occupe toi de tes oignons
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
Thanks for correcting me - Tommen should be the heir
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
It's fun to see what people make of it and to compare what the guesses are to what actually happened (at least in the books). Tough to comment on that any further without spoilers, but it is kind of fun to see it from the side of a book reader, although there are times when I wish I had no knowledge coming into the TV show.
It's fun to see what people make of it and to compare what the guesses are to what actually happened (at least in the books). Tough to comment on that any further without spoilers, but it is kind of fun to see it from the side of a book reader, although there are times when I wish I had no knowledge coming into the TV show.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
I was reading the CNN article with the recap and in the comments section they asked people to give their best guesses as to who the killer is. Too many book readers felt it their duty to come in and tell the movie watchers who the killer is and all of the people involved. I was not happy. Then the book readers started getting defensive, stating that it wasn't a secret, that the books have been out for a long time now.
I was reading the CNN article with the recap and in the comments section they asked people to give their best guesses as to who the killer is. Too many book readers felt it their duty to come in and tell the movie watchers who the killer is and all of the people involved. I was not happy. Then the book readers started getting defensive, stating that it wasn't a secret, that the books have been out for a long time now.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?
You should stick to the AV Club, they have a review from the perspective of people who have read the books, and one from the newbie perspective and they work hard to keep book spoilers out of the comments of the newbie review.I was reading the CNN article with the recap and in the comments section they asked people to give their best guesses as to who the killer is. Too many book readers felt it their duty to come in and tell the movie watchers who the killer is and all of the people involved. I was not happy. Then the book readers started getting defensive, stating that it wasn't a secret, that the books have been out for a long time now.