Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

[Steve_MN]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I'm not convinced it would be. There are hotels near the Barclays Center that are less expensive than what my group paid in Pittsburgh and will be paying in Philadelphia. (Though I don't know what the rates would be for an event weekend.) That's one advantage it does have over MSG. (There may not be many, but desire to host is certainly an important one.)

I think one difference is that if you stayed more than a few blocks away from the arena in Pittsburgh or Philly, there are cheaper options available that are still fairly easy to get to the arena from. I don't know that this would be the case for Barclays. Yes, it may be less expensive than the really pricey ones in Pittsburgh... but how much less? I stayed out a few miles last year, and even with a rental car (especially after considering the cost of a cab or whatever to get to town and back out to the airport) I paid like half what I would have at one of the downtown hotels.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

Ripping up the ice is stupid. Which makes sense since the NCAA requires it and we all know how absurdly stupid the NCAA is. The new ice never sets well because it's done quickly and then gets overused with 4 practices Wednesday, 4 morning skates and 2 games (plus possible overtime) on Thursday, 2 practices on Friday, and 2 morning skates and 1 game on Saturday.

The ice is dreadful and chippy...

That's a very good point. Good ice certainly should trump the last little bit of marketing gained by taking out the ice. When I spoke of getting differences resolved, that absolutely can and should include changes on both sides. However...

...and I'm glad Boston told the NCAA to go pound sand in 2004 (where they were in the middle of a playoff series against the Canadiens, which a lot of people do not mention).

There I said it.

As far as we can tell from the outside, the Boston hosts in 2004 agreed to a contract to host a FF on the normal terms, then unilaterally breached it. Repeatedly. That may make you "glad." But as far as I'm concerned, that's not an acceptable way to do business. Reading the thread, I'm obviously not alone in this opinion. Now we don't know exactly what was and wasn't said between the parties behind closed conference room doors. But if the conventional wisdom is anywhere near the truth, the NCAA people were correct to make a stand and withhold future business, and the Boston hosts deserved to lose that business.

Circling back to the issue of the ice, that requirement should be dropped for all applicants, including Boston. This result should have been achieved through good faith negotiations. Had it gone down that way, the 2004 hosts might have been the good guys in all this.

The Frozen Four should go back to Boston. If a reasonable deal can be struck addressing the concerns on all sides, Boston would be my first choice. But if such a deal can't be reached, I'm fine with waiting for new management at the Garden, or even never having the tournament there again. Rumor has it the historical sites and restaurants are open year round. I'll be glad to visit Boston again, with or without the Frozen Four.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I didn't go to Tampa, so I can't comment on how well they really did, but is it possible the NCAA passes on them since the games there did not sellout?

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I didn't go to Tampa, so I can't comment on how well they really did, but is it possible the NCAA passes on them since the games there did not sellout?

They were close to sellouts... also, I'd have to check, but I don't think last year sold out either, and that was with teams attending that were in driving distance.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I didn't go to Tampa, so I can't comment on how well they really did, but is it possible the NCAA passes on them since the games there did not sellout?

All I know is that my wife LOVED Tampa, and I would have no problem with convincing her to make another trek back there for a Frozen Four. Throw in the fact that I was able to go to the beach, play golf, and eat some amazing food (not saying much because food in Colorado blows), and it's a no brainer. I would be fine if they had it in Tampa every single year. Nothing like leaving Colorado in snow, and walking off the plane in 86 and sunny weather.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

As I recall, back in 2003 or 2005, it was stated the NCAA wanted to increase the interval between hosting by the same city. Based on the ten finalists announced they may have modified that, or they may just be keeping the cities they want to host again happy by naming them as finalists. In 2005 Columbus and Buffalo both submitted bids, but didn’t make the final six and the two finalists who lost out were Boston and Philadelphia. In the next round of bidding Philadelphia and Pittsburgh won, while Boston lost again (I didn’t find any lists of the bidders or finalists).

If you go with not wanting to return too soon to the same cities then Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, Tampa and probably Washington, D.C., are all out. That leaves 3 cities that hosted before, Boston, Buffalo and Columbus, and two newcomers, Brooklyn and Chicago. To me the likely winners of these five would be Boston, Buffalo, Columbus and newcomer Chicago. It splits the cities 2 east/2 west and 2 large metro areas/2 mid-size metro areas.

Personally I want Boston to host it again, because like all the other homers who have posted, I want it where I live. As for those disparaging Boston as a host, whatever happened in 2004, it was a decade ago. Furthermore, the TD Garden has hosted the basketball regionals in 2009 and 2012, so the NCAA and the TD Garden have worked together recently.

Besides Boston, I want Washington, D.C., Buffalo and Tampa to be awarded the FF his go around. And no offense to St. Paul, but I’ve been there too many times for the FF and won’t mind if it didn’t host for another decade.

 

[jmh]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I think one difference is that if you stayed more than a few blocks away from the arena in Pittsburgh or Philly, there are cheaper options available that are still fairly easy to get to the arena from. I don't know that this would be the case for Barclays. Yes, it may be less expensive than the really pricey ones in Pittsburgh... but how much less? I stayed out a few miles last year, and even with a rental car (especially after considering the cost of a cab or whatever to get to town and back out to the airport) I paid like half what I would have at one of the downtown hotels.

Fair point. I haven't ever really looked into this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't much in the way of budget lodging in the immediate area.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

unlike sean and nick, i look forward to this as a trip and a ff being held here wouldn't be that for me. heck, mookie could work thursday morning and head over after lunch for the semi finals

i am now at the point where the two oldest boys get out of school and we hit the road, which we'll do next year too in philly (ick).

 

[Sean Pickett]

unlike sean and nick, i look forward to this as a trip and a ff being held here wouldn't be that for me. heck, mookie could work thursday morning and head over after lunch for the semi finals

i am now at the point where the two oldest boys get out of school and we hit the road, which we'll do next year too in philly (ick).

I look forward to the FF as a trip as well. I loved Washington, Orlando, I mean Tampa, and Anaheim and I'm really looking forward to Philadelphia. I also was looking forward to Pittsburgh, but ended up having to miss it. I also liked St. Louis and Denver, along with Buffalo, Milwaukee, and even Columbus, although that was more for the day in Dayton at the U.S. Air Force Museum. However, I'd also enjoy a taking a break from traveling for a year.

Sean

 

[scoreboard]

Isn't the Islanders moving to Brooklyn?

The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn but by no choice of their own. The arena they are playing in now is a dump. The owner tried to privately finance a new arena/development but was turned down by the town of Hempstead due to lack of infrastructure. By the way, the "town" of Hempstead has 760,000 residents. They then put it up to a vote to the Nassau County residents, one of the wealthiest counties in the country, and it was turned down because it would raise taxes by $40 a year. So the Islanders are headed to Brooklyn. I honestly think Brooklyn has a solid shot at getting a FF because the arena is creating a lot of buzz in the NY metro area. However, if you are thinking hotel rooms will be inexpensive there in a couple of years I think you will be mistaken. There is a lot of development going on in Brooklyn and prices are going to rise.

 

[BC/HE]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

Very surprised that nobody has brought up the construction of the Harbor Center in Buffalo yet. If you look at what it brings to a Frozen 4 it will put Buffalo far ahead of any of the other cities. Fans will have plenty to do before and after games as well as on the off day. The additional NHL quality rinks could allow for open skate or hockey playing time for fans. It will provide the ultimate Frozen 4 fan experience. Take a look: http://www.harborcenter.com/

 

[state of hockey]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

It's still in Buffalo.

 

[BC/HE]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

Maybe you could jump in a barrel and head upstream towards the Falls if you need more excitement.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

unlike sean and nick, i look forward to this as a trip and a ff being held here wouldn't be that for me.

Again with the "I" stuff.

I also look forward to a trip to a FF and prefer it isn't in Boston to be honest. BORING for me. Although it is good since it all but assures BU won't be playing.

However, I still make it a point to badger people about their strange fetishes that waitresses don't bow down and kiss their butts in the host city because they are wearing a Gopher or a Sioux jersey or because Jeremy Jacobs had a playoff series on his hands playing in between Frozen Four games against the Canadiens and wanted the Bruins logo to remain on the ice (because like, really who doesn't like pucks that actually don't hop around on chippy, slushy ice that didn't set properly for the biggest games of the entire college hockey season).

At the end of the day, if you want to go to a world-class city, no one is going to know or care that you flew in from Edina in your Vanek jersey. It was like that in DC. Was like that in Boston. Will be like that in Chicago, NYC, Philly, etc. You may get the opposite in some rinky dink town where you will be sitting in your hotel all day rather than opting to take a tour of the World's Largest Ball of Earwax. I say whatever floats your boat. But the reality is, these bids are pretty much all the same.

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I'd be interested to see what the seating capacity the NCAA is looking for actually is. Barclay's only seats 15,800 for hockey.

 

[Yuppie Scum]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I'd be interested to see what the seating capacity the NCAA is looking for actually is. Barclay's only seats 15,800 for hockey.

Screw it, host it at the Big House.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

Again with the "I" stuff.

I also look forward to a trip to a FF and prefer it isn't in Boston to be honest. BORING for me. Although it is good since it all but assures BU won't be playing.

However, I still make it a point to badger people about their strange fetishes that waitresses don't bow down and kiss their butts in the host city because they are wearing a Gopher or a Sioux jersey or because Jeremy Jacobs had a playoff series on his hands playing in between Frozen Four games against the Canadiens and wanted the Bruins logo to remain on the ice (because like, really who doesn't like pucks that actually don't hop around on chippy, slushy ice that didn't set properly for the biggest games of the entire college hockey season).

At the end of the day, if you want to go to a world-class city, no one is going to know or care that you flew in from Edina in your Vanek jersey. It was like that in DC. Was like that in Boston. Will be like that in Chicago, NYC, Philly, etc. You may get the opposite in some rinky dink town where you will be sitting in your hotel all day rather than opting to take a tour of the World's Largest Ball of Earwax. I say whatever floats your boat. But the reality is, these bids are pretty much all the same.

Nick, you took the words (well, at least some of them. Message was kind of garbled there, don't you think?) right out of my mouth. I remember people on this forum complaining about Boston after both 1998 and 2004. Stuff about the price of hotels, food, rude waiters, etc. I really don't get it. Boston is a great city, I would say even greater now since the Central Artery was torn down, the Greenway established and the South Boston waterfront developed. The area around the Garden could be better, just a bunch of bars and crummy bar food, but for people coming in from out of town, everything you would want to do is accessible by the T or within walking distance - North End, the waterfront, Back Bay, Newbury St., etc. I suppose hotel prices are high, but if the FF goes to NYC or Chicago they will be even higher.

The most important thing though is that Boston is one of maybe three major cities in the country that "get" college hockey. Mind you, not everyone in metro Boston is a college hockey fan (this is by and large a pro sports town), but they know hockey and they know that if four D1 college teams are playing for the national championship that several of the players on those teams will be in the NHL in a short while. Granted the folks you encounter might be bemused by a Goofer or Sioux shirt (as opposed to the Bruins) but if you embrace them, they'll embrace you. Bottom line for me is that Boston is a much better place today that it was even 10 years ago, never mind when I was growing up. Although I'd much rather go on the road to the FF, I'll be excited that Boston is hosting because they deserve to.

As an aside, the NCAA has to get off its high horse. My guess is that there was a delay in annoucing potential sites because the people who run the arenas in those towns weren't too excited about the NCAA telling them to get rid of the ads, get rid of the pro logos on the ice, you can't sell beer, and we need the arena for a whole week. I am willing to bet that this time the NCAA was the one who had to make some concessions, not the arenas.

 

[CLS]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I completely agree with the sentiments that Boston (i.e. the TD Garden) should be subject to the same conditions as every other venue, and its desirability as a FF venue doesn’t entitle it to renege on contracts that it has signed.

But I also agree with pgb that it’s time to re-think the issue of the ice, and with Greg that they need to revise the signage and the beer sales policies.

Regarding the ice, I remember how indignant I first was when I started seeing commercial logos in the ice. But now, I don’t even notice them, and I also recognize that eliminating them really is a big deal. And it should be a point of pride that the FF is on a rink that also is home to NHL and Stanley Cup games, not a fact to be hidden. I think they should do away with this requirement.

Regarding the signage on the boards, it seems to me that this can be relatively easily done. But elsewhere in the arena, come on. If I really thought the NCAA were protecting amateurism in sports, I might think differently, but I don’t think it is. It’s more about protecting their corporate sponsors – the silliness over the P***i Center in Denver showed that.

Regarding beer, I used to be in favor of the “prohibition”, because I thought otherwise I’d get barfed on by a drunk. But now, they don’t allow you, or at least make it very inconvenient for you, to leave the venue between games, and I really would like a beer with my overpriced hot dog. I’ve been to several college hockey events – e.g. the Beanpot and the Hockey East tournament -- at which the rivalries are much fiercer than most FF games and have yet to be annoyed by an alcohol-related incident. Not saying they don’t happen, but they seem to be within the range of control of a competent stadium security staff.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

Regarding beer, I used to be in favor of the “prohibition”, because I thought otherwise I’d get barfed on by a drunk. But now, they don’t allow you, or at least make it very inconvenient for you, to leave the venue between games, and I really would like a beer with my overpriced hot dog. I’ve been to several college hockey events – e.g. the Beanpot and the Hockey East tournament -- at which the rivalries are much fiercer than most FF games and have yet to be annoyed by an alcohol-related incident. Not saying they don’t happen, but they seem to be within the range of control of a competent stadium security staff.

Too bad you never made it to the WCHA Final Five. Then you could have experienced that joy. But I don't disagree with what you're saying. Unless the Gophers play the Whioux or SCSU in the F4, I don't see alcohol being an issue.

 

[Jaws]

Re: Frozen Four Finalists for 2015-2018

I have to aGREE. bEEN TO bOSTON FOR 2 ff AND HAD A GREAT TIME BOTH TIMES. tHE CITY HAS EVERYTHING YOU COULD WANT. siteseeing, history and great food. We walked just about everywhere. Can't wait to go back. Nick, you took the words (well, at least some of them. Message was kind of garbled there, don't you think?) right out of my mouth. I remember people on this forum complaining about Boston after both 1998 and 2004. Stuff about the price of hotels, food, rude waiters, etc. I really don't get it. Boston is a great city, I would say even greater now since the Central Artery was torn down, the Greenway established and the South Boston waterfront developed. The area around the Garden could be better, just a bunch of bars and crummy bar food, but for people coming in from out of town, everything you would want to do is accessible by the T or within walking distance - North End, the waterfront, Back Bay, Newbury St., etc. I suppose hotel prices are high, but if the FF goes to NYC or Chicago they will be even higher.

The most important thing though is that Boston is one of maybe three major cities in the country that "get" college hockey. Mind you, not everyone in metro Boston is a college hockey fan (this is by and large a pro sports town), but they know hockey and they know that if four D1 college teams are playing for the national championship that several of the players on those teams will be in the NHL in a short while. Granted the folks you encounter might be bemused by a Goofer or Sioux shirt (as opposed to the Bruins) but if you embrace them, they'll embrace you. Bottom line for me is that Boston is a much better place today that it was even 10 years ago, never mind when I was growing up. Although I'd much rather go on the road to the FF, I'll be excited that Boston is hosting because they deserve to.

As an aside, the NCAA has to get off its high horse. My guess is that there was a delay in annoucing potential sites because the people who run the arenas in those towns weren't too excited about the NCAA telling them to get rid of the ads, get rid of the pro logos on the ice, you can't sell beer, and we need the arena for a whole week. I am willing to bet that this time the NCAA was the one who had to make some concessions, not the arenas.[/QUOTE]