USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Frozen Four 2023: Three Blue Bloods and and Upstart
- Thread starter Bomber
- Start date
MichVandal
Well-known member
Honestly, still trying to figure out my team. It took so long for them to really get into a "system" that was more a complete game than earlier in the season that it's still concerning, making one wonder if this is truly the year or not. Especially with all of the off season turmoil that had a new coach barely a month before the season started. And hearing people who have info from the inside, it's very different from Mel.
It's hard to start over again, but Coach Narauto has done a pretty incredible job with these very young kids.
With previous coaches, QU would have caused us serious issues. I don't know why Red was so stubborn against really well defensively coached teams, but they were a real kryptonite to him. And since Mel learned from him- it was largely the same. Both of those coaches had issues with smart forechecking teams and teams that just hinted at clogging up the neutral zone. But for some reason. Coach Brandon has some different things going on- we started the season with many of the same chronic problems (which were really exposed badly by a blowout loss to OSU), and they have slowly been dealt with.
Are the solved to give our team a chance to solve the QU code? That's what is going to make Thursday night really interesting. And I will say, seeing them react to PSU's big change in focus does give one hope.
It's hard to start over again, but Coach Narauto has done a pretty incredible job with these very young kids.
With previous coaches, QU would have caused us serious issues. I don't know why Red was so stubborn against really well defensively coached teams, but they were a real kryptonite to him. And since Mel learned from him- it was largely the same. Both of those coaches had issues with smart forechecking teams and teams that just hinted at clogging up the neutral zone. But for some reason. Coach Brandon has some different things going on- we started the season with many of the same chronic problems (which were really exposed badly by a blowout loss to OSU), and they have slowly been dealt with.
Are the solved to give our team a chance to solve the QU code? That's what is going to make Thursday night really interesting. And I will say, seeing them react to PSU's big change in focus does give one hope.
FredsDeadFriend
New member
The Upstarts had a pretty impressive dozen year run thereabouts. I know why, but am curious if the Blue Bloods have adapted in a way that will have them dominating the Frozen Four again on a regular basis or if seasons like this one and last year will just be an occasional break from the new norm? As a fan of a blue blood program, I am not sure what I prefer, Minnesota going up against the likes of Michigan and BU, Denver, UND & BC or a slew of Mankatos, Unions, Yales and Qs? I think as a fan I feel more satisfied when the Gophers stop fellow blue bloods from improving on their already impressive historic resumes. When they knock out the likes of a SCSU, it's satisfying of course, but I always feel a tiny bit guilty, like they are picking on them, lol.
FredsDeadFriend
New member
Lets agree it's best if both our teams pummel them eastern squads and then duke it out for the Title.
StateofHockey78
New member
I love the East/West Matchups. Nice to get a flavor all across the country of college hockey's best teams. Just my opinion, but I see an interesting breakdown of these four teams strongest attributes.
Defense (I'm looking at body of work/ability to play an effective style vs. pure talent alone) -
1. QU - When they are on, they can lock down everything. Give up very few shots and if you don't capitalize on the chances you do get, it's goodnight for your team. Backstopped by Perets, who also when on can be a game changer. Excellent PK 86%. Hard to dispute they come in as the strongest defensive team.
2. MN - The most talent skaters/puck movers, and passers in the tournament. So much of their game is built by quickly transitioning Def to Off. They have great sticks and block a lot of shots. If you don't get and stay on top of this D corp on the forecheck, it's going to be a long day of chasing Gophers all over the ice. Can be inconsistent clearing out in front. Close is more than solid backstopping this squad. Underrated due to his small size, but positionally sound and a calm net presence. Solid 83.5% PK
3. BU - Has the ability to lock it down defensively. Balance is the way I see this teams overall playstyle as they are comfy racing or locking it up. Impressive commitment to blocking shots and taking lanes during the regionals. No doubt the top freshman D man in all the land. I'm sure out east he's got a reputation, but for those in the west who may not know, Commesso has been playing rock solid in goal, has size, and swallows pucks like cookie monster. Can be susceptible on the PK, but 81% is still within reason.
4. MI - Loads of Speed, even on the back end. As evidenced in the PSU game, the simpler they play, the better they are. They have been prone to turning pucks over and getting a little cutesy at times. However, do not mistake cutesy for lack of toughness, this team has good size on the back end and doesn't shy from a fight. They need to continue to be hard on the PP and stay out of the box, because their regular season sub 80% PK will not get it done in Tampa and they are a highly penalized team.
Offense -
1. MN - The top line in college hockey. Knies was sick during the regionals and they still barely skipped a beat offensively. Cooley is the most dynamic playmaker in the game and a ferocious competitor. Snuggerud can snipe it like Fantilli. They can roll 3 lines with major scoring ability. The upper classmen have turned up the heat in the regionals, which could make this group almost unstoppable if that top line is also going. Solid PP, although streaky. This group is very good at taking away the goalies sight lines with big bodies like Knies and Nelson. Beware the 100MPH slappers from the blue line as well. Most creative passers to match that dynamic D corp. Similar to Michigan, the simpler the game the better they are. If they stay away from bad zone entry drop passes, it's not fun to be the Defense against this group. (MN is less than dental floss thickness above Michigan)
2. MI - Fantillit, Fantilli, Fantilli. If that's not enough, then there's Mackie, another Hughes, another Hughes after that, something called Nazar III, the Duke, I mean jeebus it just goes on and on. No one is faster, no one has more pure scoring skill. They also have sneaky good upper classmen who really pull this team together and create a well-rounded offense. STAY OUT OF THE BOX, or else. PSU did everything they could against this team and what has to be the scariest part is, this young group stuck with it unflinchingly. They have scored in bunches almost all season, watch out after that first goal they are more than likely about to pop #2 on the next shift. IMO, the only difference between this offense and MN, is that MN is a tad deeper on the blue line.
3. BU - I may need some help from others on this one. My opinion is based on limited time watching this group during the HEA and NCAA's. From what I've seen, they have similar traits to MN and Michigan but not as many high end weapons. The have a very balanced offense with no 20 goal scorers, but 5 players in double digits and 12 players with 7 or more. Lane Hutson can be a game changer offensively. Very capable speed and not afraid to grind. PP is a little low at 19%, not sure how they've trended of late.
4. QU - being last on this list is questionable in some regards. They have an excellent PP and some dynamic offensive weapons. They play hard on pucks and surprised me with how physical they can bring it. They will need Graf and Lipkin to play like upper classmen to compliment De Jong, Quillan, and Brind'Amour. While perhaps not as deep offensively as MN or MI, their top end guys have tremendous skill and energy. they are sneaky good at finding holes in the slot to get grade A chances. You also better clear out that net front because they aren't afraid to crash the net for loose rebounds. I think they need to generate a little more zone time than they did against OSU to keep the Wolverines at bay. That's not a team you can sag against all game and hang on.
Of course, there are a lot of intangibles that can and will make a difference in these games. I think MN has the most complete team on this list by a small margin, with Michigan and QU right on their heels. BU I'd put a notch down, but that's only because they haven't been in this position before with this group and it's hard to win if no one has playoff seasoning (but not impossible). In the end, the margins are just so small any of the 4 can win. I think this FF is going to be special.
Defense (I'm looking at body of work/ability to play an effective style vs. pure talent alone) -
1. QU - When they are on, they can lock down everything. Give up very few shots and if you don't capitalize on the chances you do get, it's goodnight for your team. Backstopped by Perets, who also when on can be a game changer. Excellent PK 86%. Hard to dispute they come in as the strongest defensive team.
2. MN - The most talent skaters/puck movers, and passers in the tournament. So much of their game is built by quickly transitioning Def to Off. They have great sticks and block a lot of shots. If you don't get and stay on top of this D corp on the forecheck, it's going to be a long day of chasing Gophers all over the ice. Can be inconsistent clearing out in front. Close is more than solid backstopping this squad. Underrated due to his small size, but positionally sound and a calm net presence. Solid 83.5% PK
3. BU - Has the ability to lock it down defensively. Balance is the way I see this teams overall playstyle as they are comfy racing or locking it up. Impressive commitment to blocking shots and taking lanes during the regionals. No doubt the top freshman D man in all the land. I'm sure out east he's got a reputation, but for those in the west who may not know, Commesso has been playing rock solid in goal, has size, and swallows pucks like cookie monster. Can be susceptible on the PK, but 81% is still within reason.
4. MI - Loads of Speed, even on the back end. As evidenced in the PSU game, the simpler they play, the better they are. They have been prone to turning pucks over and getting a little cutesy at times. However, do not mistake cutesy for lack of toughness, this team has good size on the back end and doesn't shy from a fight. They need to continue to be hard on the PP and stay out of the box, because their regular season sub 80% PK will not get it done in Tampa and they are a highly penalized team.
Offense -
1. MN - The top line in college hockey. Knies was sick during the regionals and they still barely skipped a beat offensively. Cooley is the most dynamic playmaker in the game and a ferocious competitor. Snuggerud can snipe it like Fantilli. They can roll 3 lines with major scoring ability. The upper classmen have turned up the heat in the regionals, which could make this group almost unstoppable if that top line is also going. Solid PP, although streaky. This group is very good at taking away the goalies sight lines with big bodies like Knies and Nelson. Beware the 100MPH slappers from the blue line as well. Most creative passers to match that dynamic D corp. Similar to Michigan, the simpler the game the better they are. If they stay away from bad zone entry drop passes, it's not fun to be the Defense against this group. (MN is less than dental floss thickness above Michigan)
2. MI - Fantillit, Fantilli, Fantilli. If that's not enough, then there's Mackie, another Hughes, another Hughes after that, something called Nazar III, the Duke, I mean jeebus it just goes on and on. No one is faster, no one has more pure scoring skill. They also have sneaky good upper classmen who really pull this team together and create a well-rounded offense. STAY OUT OF THE BOX, or else. PSU did everything they could against this team and what has to be the scariest part is, this young group stuck with it unflinchingly. They have scored in bunches almost all season, watch out after that first goal they are more than likely about to pop #2 on the next shift. IMO, the only difference between this offense and MN, is that MN is a tad deeper on the blue line.
3. BU - I may need some help from others on this one. My opinion is based on limited time watching this group during the HEA and NCAA's. From what I've seen, they have similar traits to MN and Michigan but not as many high end weapons. The have a very balanced offense with no 20 goal scorers, but 5 players in double digits and 12 players with 7 or more. Lane Hutson can be a game changer offensively. Very capable speed and not afraid to grind. PP is a little low at 19%, not sure how they've trended of late.
4. QU - being last on this list is questionable in some regards. They have an excellent PP and some dynamic offensive weapons. They play hard on pucks and surprised me with how physical they can bring it. They will need Graf and Lipkin to play like upper classmen to compliment De Jong, Quillan, and Brind'Amour. While perhaps not as deep offensively as MN or MI, their top end guys have tremendous skill and energy. they are sneaky good at finding holes in the slot to get grade A chances. You also better clear out that net front because they aren't afraid to crash the net for loose rebounds. I think they need to generate a little more zone time than they did against OSU to keep the Wolverines at bay. That's not a team you can sag against all game and hang on.
Of course, there are a lot of intangibles that can and will make a difference in these games. I think MN has the most complete team on this list by a small margin, with Michigan and QU right on their heels. BU I'd put a notch down, but that's only because they haven't been in this position before with this group and it's hard to win if no one has playoff seasoning (but not impossible). In the end, the margins are just so small any of the 4 can win. I think this FF is going to be special.
Good to hear some well thought out points. Have appreciated your thoughts throughout the last couple weeks.
I think we can all agree that the 4 strongest teams, at this point of the season, are going to Tampa. Which is all you can ask for. Whoever wins, will certainly be a worthy champion
I think we can all agree that the 4 strongest teams, at this point of the season, are going to Tampa. Which is all you can ask for. Whoever wins, will certainly be a worthy champion
defkit
New member
Great thoughts StateofHockey. You got it right with BU overall. Some additional thoughts on them:
The only #2 seed of the bunch, I agree that they are the least likely to win this. They did show at the regional that they have learned to play tight games or wide open games. But they aren't the offensive juggernaut that Minnesota and Michigan are, and they don't have the system that QU has (first year coach, so even if he wanted to play that sort of system, they would only have one year of experience with it).
On defense, all the attention that Lane Hutson has received (all deserved) has taken some of the limelight away from Dom Fensore (also a First Team All-Hockey East Defenseman) who is the best skater on the team and has the ability to really push the puck offensively. Where Lane Hutson is all about the stutter-step/juke, Fensore is pure speed and smooth skating. Case McCarthy, a second (third?) rounder and a senior is a huge loss for this team - he was injured in the Hockey East semis. He isn't the offensive talent that the two guys mentioned are, and he isn't a defensive beast like Webber, but he is a very valuable blend of the two. The fact that this team has won three tournament games without him is remarkable.
At forward, balance is really the advantage that this team has. Against Cornell, the 4th line of Sam Stevens, Jamie Armstrong, and Devin Kaplan played a ton once we had the lead. They are reliable - two seniors on that line. But they can also score: 24 goals between them. Despite not being among the leaders in goals, the two guys that are usually key contributors in big wins are a couple of bigger drafted guys: Dylan Peterson and Luke Tuch. If they can control the puck effectively on the cycle in the o-zone, we often get scoring chances from them. Skoog is similarly strong, with more of a scoring touch. And Quinn Hutson has been coming up with some big goals (leads the team in GWGs).
Commesso has played great down the stretch. Despite being an Olympian and high draft guy, he hasn't had the consistency that Oettinger had. But he has picked the right time to play the best hockey of his BU career.
As an older BU fan, I am going into this game in a similar mindset as I did in 1997 against Michigan. There is a good chance that we might get blown out of the building, but the boys are gelling as a team, and if the kids can execute on a game plan, maybe we'll have a shot.
The only #2 seed of the bunch, I agree that they are the least likely to win this. They did show at the regional that they have learned to play tight games or wide open games. But they aren't the offensive juggernaut that Minnesota and Michigan are, and they don't have the system that QU has (first year coach, so even if he wanted to play that sort of system, they would only have one year of experience with it).
On defense, all the attention that Lane Hutson has received (all deserved) has taken some of the limelight away from Dom Fensore (also a First Team All-Hockey East Defenseman) who is the best skater on the team and has the ability to really push the puck offensively. Where Lane Hutson is all about the stutter-step/juke, Fensore is pure speed and smooth skating. Case McCarthy, a second (third?) rounder and a senior is a huge loss for this team - he was injured in the Hockey East semis. He isn't the offensive talent that the two guys mentioned are, and he isn't a defensive beast like Webber, but he is a very valuable blend of the two. The fact that this team has won three tournament games without him is remarkable.
At forward, balance is really the advantage that this team has. Against Cornell, the 4th line of Sam Stevens, Jamie Armstrong, and Devin Kaplan played a ton once we had the lead. They are reliable - two seniors on that line. But they can also score: 24 goals between them. Despite not being among the leaders in goals, the two guys that are usually key contributors in big wins are a couple of bigger drafted guys: Dylan Peterson and Luke Tuch. If they can control the puck effectively on the cycle in the o-zone, we often get scoring chances from them. Skoog is similarly strong, with more of a scoring touch. And Quinn Hutson has been coming up with some big goals (leads the team in GWGs).
Commesso has played great down the stretch. Despite being an Olympian and high draft guy, he hasn't had the consistency that Oettinger had. But he has picked the right time to play the best hockey of his BU career.
As an older BU fan, I am going into this game in a similar mindset as I did in 1997 against Michigan. There is a good chance that we might get blown out of the building, but the boys are gelling as a team, and if the kids can execute on a game plan, maybe we'll have a shot.
StateofHockey78
New member
Is there any chance that McCarthy can come back or is he shut down for the season? Thanks for sharing some more info on BU, I like to learn about all these teams the best I can going in. I just cannot wait to strut into Amalie arena and see 3 great games.
StateofHockey78
New member
Fun Fact -
# of appearances in FF since they last won a National title. If there was ever a team that was due...
BU - 1 - 2015 loss (Last win 2009)
QU - 3
MN - 4 (last win 2003)
Michigan -7 (last win 1998)
# of appearances in FF since they last won a National title. If there was ever a team that was due...
BU - 1 - 2015 loss (Last win 2009)
QU - 3
MN - 4 (last win 2003)
Michigan -7 (last win 1998)
He broke his collar bone. : (. Frightening crash into the end boards on a rush in the Hockey East Semi's. He wasn't moving initially and had to be taken off on a stretcher. Scary moment for all, especially for the program that lived through Travis Roy.
BU is also missing their fastest skater, third-line center Nick Zabaneh. He did something to his leg during the Hockey East Final that has him on crutches. Also done for the year. Ethan Phillips is a hard-luck Senior who has been BU's 13th skater down the stretch was vaulted to the top line and collected 4 points in the Regionals. Good story, that.
It should also be noted that BU only skates 5 defensemen and their 5th guy saw minimal time when McCarthy was healthy. It's amazing what they did against Cornell. At least they have 2 weeks to rest up.
I thought the same thing, defkit. That this game feels like the 1997 game against a vaunted Michigan team. Can they do it again?
StateofHockey78
New member
The one advantage I think they have over the field is, they should be playing with zero pressure. All three of the other teams are "expected" to succeed based on their league and/or season results. It's only natural to feel some pressure for that reason.
MichVandal
Well-known member
At the same time, we, too, have a first year coach. Wait. He's not even officially the coach- he's the interim coach. Which was given to him about a month before the season started, and not the coach most of us expected (including some former players).
For most reasonable people, he's overperformed given the situation. Sure, Michigan has a ton of talent, but we've had lots of talent that burned out of tournaments in the first or second round with legendary coaching.
I think that takes a lot of pressure off the team.
Especially when he's never brought up in any "coach of the year" conversation.
StateofHockey78
New member
I think that may have been true early in the season, but Michigan isn't taking anyone by surprise at this point. The B1G has been crowned the king of the conferences for 2023 and I think that alone creates an expectation. I would agree they don't have the target on their back quite like MN has this year, but given that they won the B1G championship hard to imagine they aren't the co-favorite in this field. I also don't think it's lost on them or anyone else that Michigan has waited 25 years to hoist another trophy. Playing for Michigan some pressure is inherent, just like for MN. You are expected to win. Those of us who are more tempered like you seem to be may understand better it's not that easy, but the broader fan base I think has a different expectation.
You could be right about the coaching situation providing some relief, but I don't think he's flying under anyone's radar. The reason he didn't get consideration in the B1G is because they struggled for half the season. It was only in the last few weeks of the regular season they found their form and went from 6th to 2nd. It's clear he's found the sweet spot for this group to me. He was learning on the fly and what a job he has done. I think it's a done deal once the season ends and the school can work through it's required process in order to name him officially. Given the past issues there was no way the school was going to name him until they got through the season and could ensure he was the right man for the job, IMO.
MichVandal
Well-known member
Well, bear in mind, most of the reason we struggled was that we had so much of the team not capable of playing because they were so sick. Let alone worrying about if one of their teammates was going to die. When we played you guys here at Yost, our team was so short handed that our 3rd string goalie was a 4th line winger. Who never played, of course. And by the time the COTY was announced, we had climbed back into 2nd, very much erasing the beginning of the year problems that we did have.
Given that we are expected to be in the FF just because "Michigan" in spite of all of the issues, please don't try to sell the idea that our interim coach and what he's had to work for is anywhere near front and center. BU's new coach gets more credit for what he did, and your coach got B1G COTY for doing exactly what was expected. Brandon was thrust into a totally unexpected situation, where the program had a lot of issues because it seemed that players had huge issues with the coaching staff along with all of the stupid things that went on- there was massive turmoil here in Ann Arbor, which was very noted by many of the posters on this board.
It will suck if we don't win, but all things considered, this season is a huge win. Just about as big as a story as when we had a walk on goalie almost win us a national championship.
Last edited:
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Registered User
I apologize in advance if my skin blinds anyone
MichVandal
Well-known member
My wife is already dreading walking to the game from the hotel. Good thing there are standards for a carry in bag, since inside is pretty darned cool.
buoldtimer
The social ramble ain't restful
Top notch analysis here.
StateofHockey78
New member
I'm not selling anything to you. I'm not here to debate COTY and frankly I don't care who wins. I'm providing an opinion that BU has the least pressure of the 4 teams coming in.
MichVandal
Well-known member
And my point is that the "pressure" on Michigan is more because "Michigan" than reality. I really don't think there's nearly as much pressure on us as QU and Minnesota.