Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

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Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

With those comments about Boston you wonder if it will be a while before they host again.

Agreed, and for similar reasons, the only NHL arena that seems to be in much of a hurry to repeat is St. Paul, probably the only NHL rink that's in an area in which interest in college hockey even approaches interest in NHL hockey.

Regarding Columbus, I agree with everything pgb said, and add that Columbus had four WCHA teams, only one of which has a sizeable alumni base, and none of which were particularly close to Columbus. The CCHA fan bases weren't there in numbers and for the eastern fans, not only were there no teams, but Columbus is not easy to get to -- inconvenient to fly to and a long drive.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

If it's going to be hosted in Chicago, you have to have the United Center. Hosting it at Allstate would be like having it in the Twin Cities and hosting it at the Target Center instead of the X...

I get where you're going, but the Target Center is much nicer and newer than Allstate Arena.

Point is, you stage your event at the best of the available venues.

 

[KnowItAll]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

Prudential Center in NJ would be a great choice. New arena, NYC right across the river.

dog I got a question about your .sig.
you say you have been to Kelley rink at Conte forum, but then you say that you have been to the Agganis... how come you left out the other part?

 

[burgie12]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

And lastly. we went to Cleveland on the off day to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We had a great time, but it is a couple of hours away. Kind of like Buffalo and the Falls.

You mean that world-renown attraction that's less than 40 minutes away?

I don't get how Buffalo / Niagara Falls could possibly be compared to Columbus / Cleveland.

 

[Jaws]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

It seemed like more than 40 minutes to me, but we were not staying downtown. The point being, it sure as hell was not in Columbus.

You mean that world-renown attraction that's less than 40 minutes away?

I don't get how Buffalo / Niagara Falls could possibly be compared to Columbus / Cleveland.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

Back in '03 we used the off-day to go to Niagara and Toronto. Very easy round trip from Buffalo. Nothing against the city of Buffalo, that's just how our group chose to spend the time.

Similarly, Columbus could be used as a taking off point for the Rock and Roll HofF in Cleveland, the Pro Football HofF in Canton, Wright-Patterson AF Base in Dayton, etc. etc. Easy day trips all. The specific choice is just a matter of taste.

Not sure that distance is a huge issue when you have the whole day to work with. But if comparisons are necessary: Buffalo/Niagara is comparable to Columbus/Wright-Patt, while Buffalo/Toronto is probably comparable to Columbus/Canton.

 

[aparch]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

How much beer is sold at the circus?

EDIT: Right now, "Disney on Ice - Rockin' Ever After" is at the UC for about 10 days. How much beer is being sold at that?

How much beer is consumed? More than what's allowed at NCAA Championship events.

 

[brainof23]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

I would love to see the Frozen Four back in Buffalo. I thought we did a great job hosting last time and the world seemed to have fun during the World Juniors a few years ago.

Buffalo is a great hockey city and First Niagara Center is a great arena.

Thomas Vanek hasn't left since the Frozen Four. Maybe if we get to host again we can get a second goal scorer for the Sabres.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

Said it in '03 and I'll say it again now -- I'd be glad to go back to Buffalo. Agreed that it's a great hockey city.

Hosting went well enough, but in-house attendance was an issue. Maybe all the no-shows were out-of-towners who canceled their trips when their team didn't qualify, or left after their team lost in the semis. Maybe. But my sense was that relatively few locals attended in person, and that overall local demand was soft. Another thing that happened in Buffalo was that a substantial block of tickets went on sale at the last minute, long after a sellout had been announced. It's just conjecture, but my thought at the time was that the "corporate friends" and other insiders had a hard time finding locals interested in using the ducats.

One specific concern was that there were fewer people were in the building for the title game than were present for the semi-finals, which is certainly the exception to the rule. Contrast this to St. Louis, where the upper bowl was packed both days, and seemed to be populated mostly by local fans. Contrast it even to Anaheim, where at least attendance improved on the second day.

If and when Buffalo gets another FF, a better job will need to be done marketing the event to local hockey fans.

 

[UNH09]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

Said it in '03 and I'll say it again now -- I'd be glad to go back to Buffalo. Agreed that it's a great hockey city.

Hosting went well enough, but in-house attendance was an issue. Maybe all the no-shows were out-of-towners who canceled their trips when their team didn't qualify, or left after their team lost in the semis. Maybe. But my sense was that relatively few locals attended in person, and that overall local demand was soft. Another thing that happened in Buffalo was that a substantial block of tickets went on sale at the last minute, long after a sellout had been announced. It's just conjecture, but my thought at the time was that the "corporate friends" and other insiders had a hard time finding locals interested in using the ducats.

One specific concern was that there were fewer people were in the building for the title game than were present for the semi-finals, which is certainly the exception to the rule. Contrast this to St. Louis, where the upper bowl was packed both days, and seemed to be populated mostly by local fans. Contrast it even to Anaheim, where at least attendance improved on the second day.

If and when Buffalo gets another FF, a better job will need to be done marketing the event to local hockey fans.

I know the Cornell faithful left after the semis.

 

[brainof23]

I remember getting tickets to the Final Four was a nightmare. They would only sell all three games for a while. You couldn't just go to the final. Then it was supposedly sold out. Then they released tickets but by the time the first game was over all the losing supporters were dumping their tickets in the street for a few dollars. Well below what they were trying to sell them for at the window.

People love events here though. We pack our building any time the NCAA basketball tournament comes here. I notice that that isn't the case everywhere.

I think Pegula and company would do a better job promoting it that Golisano and company did.

Buffalo does a good job producing D1 talent but Canisius and Niagara have done a bad job keeping it here. It's getting better though. Those programs could do a lot more to make Buffalo a more serious college hockey town.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

(lone voice): Denver or CO Springs!

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

I know the Cornell faithful left after the semis.

That's certainly true. And maybe the exact scenario explains a good number of no-shows at the title game. Ithaca was close enough to commute (i.e no lodging needed) on Thursday; but maybe too far for a second round trip when no direct rooting interest was involved. Buffalo can't be held responsible for those no-shows.

I remember getting tickets to the Final Four was a nightmare. They would only sell all three games for a while. You couldn't just go to the final.

This part goes with the territory; every local fanbase has to deal with it.

Then it was supposedly sold out. Then they released tickets but by the time the first game was over all the losing supporters were dumping their tickets in the street for a few dollars. Well below what they were trying to sell them for at the window.

Absolutely true. But the question remains, where were the local buyers? Poor prices on the secondary market and no lines at the ticket windows both stem from weak demand.

People love events here though. We pack our building any time the NCAA basketball tournament comes here. I notice that that isn't the case everywhere.

Interest in the hoops tournaments is a double-edged sword. Being a great sports town is all well and fine. But if too much time, money and energy is spent on hoops, that cuts into the potential market for the Frozen Four.

Maybe you remember; did the 2003 Frozen Four share the same weekend as the hoops finals? If so, that might have been a big part of the problem. Fortunately the Frozen Four now has its own weekend, so the hoops issue has been greatly reduced for any potential host.

I think Pegula and company would do a better job promoting it that Golisano and company did.

Legitimate grounds for hope.

Buffalo does a good job producing D1 talent but Canisius and Niagara have done a bad job keeping it here. It's getting better though. Those programs could do a lot more to make Buffalo a more serious college hockey town.

Also grounds for hope, though perhaps we're talking more long term on this factor.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

Maybe you remember; did the 2003 Frozen Four share the same weekend as the hoops finals? If so, that might have been a big part of the problem. Fortunately the Frozen Four now has its own weekend, so the hoops issue has been greatly reduced for any potential host.

The 2 week break between the regionals and the Frozen Four started in 2000 and has been in place since.

 

[brainof23]

I don't think Buffalo is considered a great basketball town. People do love when we host that tournament though. I think it has been here 3 times since FNC opened and every time ticket sales were great. The time Duke was here was crazy.

I hope we get another crack at a Frozen Four. I am almost positive that when it was here the final four for basketball was the next weekend. I could be wrong though. I don't think that event on TV would be an excuse for not going to a frozen four in person.

I remember watching the Final at Duffs in Orchard Park and the place was packed with people watching. I would have went down but I was long under the impression it was sold out. I didn't know about the soft secondary market until after.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

...I hope we get another crack at a Frozen Four. I am almost positive that when it was here the final four for basketball was the next weekend. I could be wrong though.

It was probably the other way around; no doubt WeAreNDHockey is correct about when our tournament was pushed back.

I don't think that event on TV would be an excuse for not going to a frozen four in person.

Well, it most certainly shouldn't. But we can't forget the way things were, lest we repeat the mistakes of the past. I will never forget the experience in Milwaukee in 1997. The Frozen Four was going head-to-head with final four hoops. On a quick restroom dash, I was confronted with a crowded outer concourse. Guys were watching the @#$%! basketball game on TV while our title game was going on live on the ice. I was absolutely appalled, and knew then we had to get our event away from final four hoops. Fortunately the powers-that-be saw the light and made the change.

I remember watching the Final at Duffs in Orchard Park and the place was packed with people watching. I would have went down but I was long under the impression it was sold out. I didn't know about the soft secondary market until after.

Glad to hear that the experience at Duffs was good. And yet this is the gist of the problem. Poorly thought out PR convinced local buyers that getting into the event was hopeless. You're saying this would be different next time the tournament goes to Buffalo. Could be, and I hope you're correct.

 

[bottomdweller]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

(lone voice): Denver or CO Springs!

I'm good with CO Springs... can go back to Rudy's BBQ...

 

[Onion Man]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

NO thanks to Buffalo. No offense to the city, but there are better places:

- Tampa
- Denver
- Nashville
- St. Paul
- Chicago

After this last one, I"d be happy if they put it in Tampa every other year and rotated with another warm weather city and make the Frozen Four the college hockey equivalent of a football Bowl game and reward the suckers like us who slop through snow and ice to games every weekend.

 

[Jaws]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

This. You had to fight your way thru the Big Red fans trying to unload their tickets 5 minutes after the loss to UNH.

I know the Cornell faithful left after the semis.

 

[Jaws]

Re: Frozen Four 2015 Where do we go from here?

Although the tournement itself was fun, I had the impression that the bars ande restuarants in the downtown area did not know we were coming. The place we went to between games to eat had to call people in to handle the crowd. Nobody told them that thousands of hungry, thirsty hockey fans were on the way.

I would love to see the Frozen Four back in Buffalo. I thought we did a great job hosting last time and the world seemed to have fun during the World Juniors a few years ago.

Buffalo is a great hockey city and First Niagara Center is a great arena.

Thomas Vanek hasn't left since the Frozen Four. Maybe if we get to host again we can get a second goal scorer for the Sabres.