Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

So, there are two groups that could have some impact...undecideds that will measure the issues, watch the debates, review the VP nominees etc and then pick the best candidate according to their judgment of who will best run the country AND those weak commits who will be influenced by which one does better on Leno, says something dumb, wears a goofy hat, insults bacon eaters or trips on the stairs (some of these people are already polling in support of one candidate but would switch if one of the above should happen).

Now, I'm not saying those groups will swing anything one way or the other...but there are two parts to them...potential for increased voters if one of the candidates engages/enrages a sizable chunk of people and/or shifting market share if one gets a sizable chunk of weak commits to swing their votes over to the other side.

I don't disagree that it is hard to tell if the laugh-o-meter could move enough...if it was broken into quadrants the trailing candidate might need to do well with the late deciders and also have his opponent make a big mistake to swing the weak commits. A dull boy and no mistakes from the other guy and the leader wins. The other two boxes likely offset and the leader still wins.

If anybody suggests Obama get in a tank or go to an aircraft carrier, I'd hold him back. He also needs to bone up on the price of milk, which state Ohio State plays in and who the prime minister of Ackackagstan is, this week. He could also hope Romney picks Admiral Stockdale as his running mate.

Yep, these are all good points, except I believe the nation in question was "Uzbekibekistan."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

So, nobody was Influenced by the Palin choice?

It would be interesting to see what a true scientific analysis of this reveals. Palin is the critical test of whether picking an actual doorknob as a running mate has any tangible effect in the general.

 

[mookie1995]

No, I point out fallacies in the argument by extending the argument to other examples. For instance, while he was pointing out that high speed rail (I never mentioned SST) should "earn its way" he apparently forgot that roads and bridges get plenty of money from the government (read: a subsidy). So it makes sense that if you don't want the government providing a subsidy for rail, you would be against providing a subsidy for roads...unless of course, you're a hypocrite....and I'm sure no one on this board is a hypocrite!

Roads aren't subsidized. We pay tolls. For those non-toll roads we pay fed and state gas tax that is to finance highway admin. I also find roads through excise tax and licensing.

Roads are not subsidized. In fact roads subsidize other crap spending

 

[pirate]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

It would be interesting to see what a true scientific analysis of this reveals. Palin is the critical test of whether picking an actual doorknob as a running mate has any tangible effect in the general.

I wouldn't suggest she, nor any VP nominee, decide the race...but she polarized, mobilized, hypnotized and simonized large chunks of voters.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Roads aren't subsidized. We pay tolls. For those non-toll roads we pay fed and state gas tax that is to finance highway admin. I also find roads through excise tax and licensing.

Roads are not subsidized. In fact roads subsidize other crap spending

So tax revenue isn't a subsidy? Fascinating theory.

 

[mookie1995]

So tax revenue isn't a subsidy? Fascinating theory.

User fee

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

No, I point out fallacies in the argument by extending the argument to other examples. For instance, while he was pointing out that high speed rail (I never mentioned SST) should "earn its way" he apparently forgot that roads and bridges get plenty of money from the government (read: a subsidy). So it makes sense that if you don't want the government providing a subsidy for rail, you would be against providing a subsidy for roads...unless of course, you're a hypocrite....and I'm sure no one on this board is a hypocrite!

In the running for the dumbest post ever. Do you think it's hypocritical to support some tax increases but not others? Some heath care reforms but not others? Some social programs but not others?

I explained my thought process for why I would support public funding of some projects but not others. To be a winner, the project should spur other economic growth or development, such that the increase in economic activity is greater than the cost of the project and there is a "multiplier effect" of the project. Obviously, some projects will do that (e.g. interstate highway system) and some will not (e.g. bridge to nowhere). But I guess that's a little too nuanced for your with-us-or-against-us all or nothing approach. Who would have thought Priceless would be such a disciple of GWB?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

User fee

I'd be interested to hear from the SCOTUS on the Constitutionality of the Congress passing a federal "user fee" but then, this SCOTUS is in a giving mood these days...

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

In the running for the dumbest post ever. Do you think it's hypocritical to support some tax increases but not others? Some heath care reforms but not others? Some social programs but not others?

I explained my thought process for why I would support public funding of some projects but not others. To be a winner, the project should spur other economic growth or development, such that the increase in economic activity is greater than the cost of the project and there is a "multiplier effect" of the project. Obviously, some projects will do that (e.g. interstate highway system) and some will not (e.g. bridge to nowhere). But I guess that's a little too nuanced for your with-us-or-against-us all or nothing approach. Who would have thought Priceless would be such a disciple of GWB?

High speed rail will spur economic growth. Well, it would if we could ever build such a thing. Guess China and Europe will have the economic growth and we'll just watch from our cars.

And I'm still waiting for an explanation on when exactly I said anything about Boeing or SST...

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Your big difference will be between a Grand Bargain or The Ryan Plan. Give Mittens the WH and anybody under 55 takes it in the shorts to give tax cuts to the wealthy. That's the plan and its pretty straightforward. A simple 50 vote "majority" in the Senate does the trick thru reconciliation.

Elect Obama (and a Dem Senate) and the combination of an automatic expiration of Bush tax gimmicks, huge defense cuts, and a President no longer running for re-election and a Grand Bargain has a decent chance of being implemented. The alternative is Republican priorities (tax cuts, military spending) get flushed down the bowl as doing nothing is about the worst scenario for them.

I hope you're right; I'm just surprised you're still this optimistic after witnessing the criminally irresponsible administrations of the past and present. More likely, after O gets reelected (I'm taking this as a given) he'll give even more tax cuts to the wealthy in exchange for reducing 0.00001% of the military budget in the form of a new toilet seat contract or something.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

As of the first quarter of 2010, 48.5% of Americans lived in a household that received some form of government assistance. That's up from 44.4% when the financial crisis began in 2008, and up from around 30% just 30 years ago. In the meantime, 49.5% of Americans paid no federal income tax as of 2009, up from 34.1% in 2001.

What's next? Strangulation and suffocation? or getting the couch potatoes into a program of diet and exercise?


the couch potatoes, if they can make it to the polls, doubtless will vote for more of the same. can independents recognize what's at stake, despite Romney's incompetence and inability clearly to frame the issues?

 

[mookie1995]

I'd be interested to hear from the SCOTUS on the Constitutionality of the Congress passing a federal "user fee" but then, this SCOTUS is in a giving mood these days...

Roads are not just federal. State and federal. Moneys are collected to pay for roads through taxes (gas tax) and fees (turnpike tolls, inspections). The "revenue" that is collected on roads is enough to pay for the roads. They don't require a subsidy (ie, money given to cover costs that are not able to be earned from users of road). So again, slowly.... Gas tax revenue is not a subsidy for roads- it is in place to pay for roads. A direct user source and benefit.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

As of the first quarter of 2010, 48.5% of Americans lived in a household that received some form of government assistance. That's up from 44.4% when the financial crisis began in 2008, and up from around 30% just 30 years ago. In the meantime, 49.5% of Americans paid no federal income tax as of 2009, up from 34.1% in 2001.

What's next? Strangulation and suffocation? or getting the couch potatoes into a program of diet and exercise?


the couch potatoes, if they can make it to the polls, doubtless will vote for more of the same. can independents recognize what's at stake, despite Romney's incompetence and inability clearly to frame the issues?

Now now, that isn't government assistance! We pay user fees to provide for that money. Classify it correctly.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Roads are not just federal. State and federal. Moneys are collected to pay for roads through taxes (gas tax) and fees (turnpike tolls, inspections). The "revenue" that is collected on roads is enough to pay for the roads. They don't require a subsidy (ie, money given to cover costs that are not able to be earned from users of road). So again, slowly.... Gas tax revenue is not a subsidy for roads- it is in place to pay for roads. A direct user source and benefit.

So if we paid a "rail" tax it wouldn't be a subsidy on travel by train. A direct user source and benefit.

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

As of the first quarter of 2010, 48.5% of Americans lived in a household that received some form of government assistance. That's up from 44.4% when the financial crisis began in 2008, and up from around 30% just 30 years ago. In the meantime, 49.5% of Americans paid no federal income tax as of 2009, up from 34.1% in 2001.

What's next? Strangulation and suffocation? or getting the couch potatoes into a program of diet and exercise?


the couch potatoes, if they can make it to the polls, doubtless will vote for more of the same. can independents recognize what's at stake, despite Romney's incompetence and inability clearly to frame the issues?

what's at stake in this election, is whether we'll continue to be driven steadily into the grave by a brown guy with a (D) or a white guy with an (R) after his name.

 

[mookie1995]

So if we paid a "rail" tax it wouldn't be a subsidy on travel by train. A direct user source and benefit.

If the rail tax was $60/trip, you'd probably be right.... A subsidy would come in if the cost you paid didn't cover the cost to operate said train and money from some other source was needed to balance it out.

Your learning, I like it.

Now your high speed rail.... For the NYC-wash run (a 20 minute trip?), can we please level a wide path right through Philly?!?!? Pretty please?!?

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I hope you're right; I'm just surprised you're still this optimistic after witnessing the criminally irresponsible administrations of the past and present. More likely, after O gets reelected (I'm taking this as a given) he'll give even more tax cuts to the wealthy in exchange for reducing 0.00001% of the military budget in the form of a new toilet seat contract or something.

This will only get done during the lame duck session IMHO. My optimism will fade after that. A combination of people leaving Congress plus people who are going to be primaried out of office if they run again (think Lindsey Graham) might be able to put a deal over the top.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

I wouldn't suggest she, nor any VP nominee, decide the race...but she polarized, mobilized, hypnotized and simonized large chunks of voters.

But did she actually costs or gain any votes? I doubt it. I think people who would ordinarily have thought of Generic GOP Nominee as merely incorrect identified her as a dopey grifter, and people who would ordinarily have thought of Generic GOP Nominee as a slight party asset bought her victimization act.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

No one votes for the VP. Period. It's been proven over and over and over again.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

what's at stake in this election, is whether we'll continue to be driven steadily into the grave by a brown guy with a (D) or a white guy with an (R) after his name.

The ironic thing being the only guy whiter than Romney is Obama.

Reports of our demise are exaggerated, and whoever wins -- even if it's Governor Bankster -- will get the benefit of a slow cyclical recovery and deficit reduction as revenues begin to cover. The 2008 election winner was "set up to fail." The 2012 winner is "set up to succeed." This is very similar to 1976 and 1980, respectively. That's one reason the parties are nervous about losing -- the incumbent next time will get to air those runny "morning in America" ads.

It's also why the Dems might be missing an opportunity by retaining Joltin' Joe Biden, but I can understand they are nervous about shaking anything up. Maybe Joe will have a "medical emergency" sometime in 2014...