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Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Somebody on food stamps is spending someone else's money created by someone else's productivity while producing nothing of his or her own. This is basically a free rider problem (reaping benefits while paying nothing into the system). Whether or not that person gets food stamps has no bearing on whether or not that money exists in the first place - it was created by somebody else doing something of value.

The case of the rich guy who has a job and manages to offset all federal income taxes is still paying into the system (payroll tax, property tax, state tax, sales tax) with money s/he earned from that job. The offsets presumably represent desirable behaviors from the perspective of the government, so those also put money into the system in some fashion (investing in a company and having it go bust would be one example).

To somehow equate the two scenarios as if they are equal because "OMG both are subsidized!!!1!!!" is over simplification at its worst. One of the two is productive, and it isn't the one on food stamps/welfare.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Bakunin said:
Somebody on food stamps is spending someone else's money created by someone else's productivity while producing nothing of his or her own. This is basically a free rider problem (reaping benefits while paying nothing into the system). Whether or not that person gets food stamps has no bearing on whether or not that money exists in the first place - it was created by somebody else doing something of value.

The case of the rich guy who has a job and manages to offset all federal income taxes is still paying into the system (payroll tax, property tax, state tax, sales tax) with money s/he earned from that job. The offsets presumably represent desirable behaviors from the perspective of the government, so those also put money into the system in some fashion (investing in a company and having it go bust would be one example).

To somehow equate the two scenarios as if they are equal because "OMG both are subsidized!!!1!!!" is over simplification at its worst. One of the two is productive, and it isn't the one on food stamps/welfare.
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I'm disabled and unable to work...do you consider me unproductive?
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

ScoobyDoo said:
The inherent contradiction is that the two extremes have no incentive to fix the tax code. The rich are getting away with murder and so are the poor. If you're in the middle you're getting screwed on both ends.

And because the two extremes are both more powerful when it comes to public policy than the middle the problem will NEVER be fixed.

That's the problem.
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Wow. You and I agree on something. :eek: and you phrased it quite well too! :)

I'm going to go lie down now...
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Priceless said:
I'm disabled and unable to work...do you consider me unproductive?
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Did you pay disability income insurance premiums while you were working? well, yes, under Social Security you did under the "insurance" portion of the program. So you bought insurance against a condition, the condition affected you, and you collected on the insurance. Unfair question. You paid for your benefits when you could work, so that you could collect them when the situation called for it.

It's a different matter when a person never contributes anything ever. How often that happens these days, I don't know. I do know that before the Clinton-Gingrich welfare reform, there were way too many grandmothers under 30 years old. :(



PS I'm sorry about your situation, I am relatively new here and was not totally aware....<sheepish>
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
Did you pay disability income insurance premiums while you were working? well, yes, under Social Security you did under the "insurance" portion of the program. So you bought insurance against a condition, the condition affected you, and you collected on the insurance. Unfair question. You paid for your benefits when you could work, so that you could collect them when the situation called for it.

It's a different matter when a person never contributes anything ever. How often that happens these days, I don't know. I do know that before the Clinton-Gingrich welfare reform, there were way too many grandmothers under 30 years old. :(
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Most people who are collecting Unemployment, food stamps and other forms of government assistance paid taxes too. Food kitchens report that people who used to show up with donations are now showing up for meals. The recession has hit hard. A vast majority of these people have been "productive" members of society and will be again.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

For the Pundit of Point of Rocks:
602497_10151064844177328_1297219622_n.jpg


Thought it may get a rise out of you. :) Enjoy your weekend.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

FreshFish said:
I'm saying that obsessing about income inequality, or even listing it as one of our top ten problems, is petty, venal, envious, stupid, and, well, sinful.
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Disagree.

What you can say is that folks should be rewarded for their contribution to society. This is very true. Fat cats can and should rake in big dough if they add value to society. But the final outcome of society being unequal is in fact not healthy for society (this should be clear even to those who don't really think much of Jesus).

If this country had more equitable income distribution...society would be better positioned to pay taxes and not need to continue to help make the poor competitive. Many of the challenges the country as a whole faces have to do with inequity. Its far more often character strengths and use of marketplace to make consumers happy...and much less financial inequity...that has positioned the US well historically. Arguably the most significant problem that the continent of south america faces is inequity. After Africa, its the top worldwide basketcase.

The problem is in how to have the US be more equitable while continuing to reward those who do create value for society. As the push to equality is expensive, potentially unfair and in other ways problematic, a remedy thats too strong might be worse than the disease.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

joecct said:
For the Pundit of Point of Rocks:
602497_10151064844177328_1297219622_n.jpg


Thought it may get a rise out of you. :) Enjoy your weekend.
Click to expand...

Is there a version with the Kaiser, Tojo, Hitler, Mussolini and Osama?
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Priceless said:
I'm disabled and unable to work...do you consider me unproductive?
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Based on the amount that you post on here, that answer is unequivocally "yes". :p

Given the fact you can apparently use a computer with little trouble and also communicate, I would think there would be at least some number of home-based opportunities for employment out there for you.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Bakunin said:
Based on the amount that you post on here, that answer is unequivocally "yes". :p

Given the fact you can apparently use a computer with little trouble and also communicate, I would think there would be at least some number of home-based opportunities for employment out there for you.
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There are a lot of people on here that are unproductive :p
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

walrus said:
Wouldn't matter how much he paid people are going to take issue with it. If what he did is legal what issue do they have with Mitt using the tax laws to his advantage?. Is it his fault these laws are in place, how many did he enact? Once again focus is on the wrong person(s), Congress needs to be kicked to the curb but all the emphasis is on the president or a guy running for president.
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People would care for five minutes and it would make the rounds on the talk shows and that would be it. Him NOT releasing the returns though makes it look like he has something to hide which is what Scooby was saying when he talked about the "cover up". The longer he waits, the longer the story sticks around and the longer it will take people to give up the ghost and move on. It is a dumb strategy.

No matter what it is going to look bad, so why extend it out longer than needs be? He used the system to pay less taxes, it isnt a crime. It does look hypocritical seeing as he rails against other people who pay no taxes but so what. Mitt should not be trying to get people to like him at this point, he should be focused on showing people why he is better at running the country.
 
Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

Bakunin said:
Based on the amount that you post on here, that answer is unequivocally "yes". :p

Given the fact you can apparently use a computer with little trouble and also communicate, I would think there would be at least some number of home-based opportunities for employment out there for you.
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Are you suggesting he join a pyramid scheme? :eek:
 
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Kull Wahad!!!

How exactly does one retire retroactively? Do you jump in a time machine and go back to the date you wanted to retire?
 
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