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Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
- Thread starter joecct
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Don't laugh, but is this really an issue? I've never heard of it, unless it's code for saying God in the pledge which scares the crap out of the Foxtons but doesn't seem like that big a deal to real people. If it is an actual issue, someone ask Ryan if he still "strongly favors" in cases where the teacher is a Buddhist or Muslim.
Don't laugh, but is this really an issue? I've never heard of it, unless it's code for saying God in the pledge which scares the crap out of the Foxtons but doesn't seem like that big a deal to real people. If it is an actual issue, someone ask Ryan if he still "strongly favors" in cases where the teacher is a Buddhist or Muslim.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
The list of positions doesn't exactly make him a maverick:
Abortion is woman's right - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Require hiring more women & minorities - opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits - opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Teacher-led prayer in public schools - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Absolute right to gun ownership - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
More federal funding for health coverage - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Privatize Social Security - strongly supports: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Replace coal & oil with alternatives - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it - favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Allow churches to provide welfare services - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Make taxes more progressive - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship - favors: HERESY
Support & expand free trade - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Expand the armed forces - favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Stricter limits on political campaign funds - favors: HERESY
The Patriot Act harms civil liberties - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
US out of Iraq & Afghanistan - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
15/17 = 88% ORTHODOX
Hardly a guy who thinks for himself.
In certain quarters you can still get war whoops for it. It's also one of the few remaining places where Catholic activists and Evangelical activists agree, so the RNC trots it out to prime the donations.
The list of positions doesn't exactly make him a maverick:
Abortion is woman's right - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Require hiring more women & minorities - opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits - opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Teacher-led prayer in public schools - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Absolute right to gun ownership - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
More federal funding for health coverage - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Privatize Social Security - strongly supports: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Replace coal & oil with alternatives - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it - favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Allow churches to provide welfare services - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Make taxes more progressive - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship - favors: HERESY
Support & expand free trade - strongly favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Expand the armed forces - favors: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
Stricter limits on political campaign funds - favors: HERESY
The Patriot Act harms civil liberties - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
US out of Iraq & Afghanistan - strongly opposes: ORTHODOX REPUBLICAN
15/17 = 88% ORTHODOX
Hardly a guy who thinks for himself.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Ezra Klein has his typically smart comments here. The "10 points" are so dead on, here they are:
- - - -
1. Both Democrats and conservatives are going to get the exact debate they wanted. I’m not so sure about Republicans.
2. This is an admission of fear from the Romney campaign. You don’t make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals favor your candidate. You make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals don’t favor your candidate. And, right now, the numbers don’t look good for Romney: Obama leads in the Real Clear Politics average of polls by more than four percentage points — his largest lead since April.
3. Related point: Two of the top contenders in the Romney campaign’s veepstakes were Ohio’s Rob Portman and Florida’s Marco Rubio. Given that there’s fairly good evidence that vice presidential candidates are worth at least a point or two in their home states, the Romney campaign’s decision to pick Ryan is evidence that they feel they need to change the national dynamic, not just pick off a battleground state.
4. Romney’s original intention was to make the 2012 election a referendum on President Obama’s management of the economy. Ryan makes it a choice between two competing plans for deficit reduction. This election increasingly resembles the Obama campaign’s strategy rather than the Romney campaign’s strategy.
5. It’s worth recalling how Ryan became a semi-household name. It wasn’t a Republican strategy to put him forward. As Ryan Lizza recounts in his New Yorker profile of Ryan, it was a Democratic strategy to put Ryan forward. Ryan, he writes, “was caught between the demands of the Republican leaders, who wanted nothing to do with his Roadmap, and his own belief that the Party had to offer a sweeping alternative vision to Obama’s. Ryan soon had an unlikely ally, in Obama himself.” While Republicans were trying to keep Ryan quiet, the Obama administration was trying to make him famous. They saw his plans as the clearest distillation of the GOP’s governing philosophy — and they thought it would drive voters towards the Democrats. We’ll know in November whether that was a genius strategy or an epic miscalculation.
6. Consider the case for Romney until today: He’s a relatively moderate businessman running because his experience in the private-sector gives him crucial insight into how to manage the economy. Now consider Ryan: He’s worked in politics his entire life, beginning as an aide to Sen. Bob Kasten, then working for Sen. Sam Brownback and as a speechwriter to Rep. Jack Kemp. He’s known as a relatively ideological politician who has put forward a detailed policy plan to remake the federal government. It’s a rather different message about what’s important. And how does Romney say the problem with Barack Obama is that he’s “never spent a day in the private sector” and then put Ryan a heartbeat away from the presidency?
7. Ryan upends Romney’s whole strategy. Until now, Romney’s play has been very simple: Don’t get specific. In picking Ryan, he has yoked himself to each and every one of Ryan’s specifics. And some of those specifics are quite…surprising. For instance: Ryan has told the Congressional Budget Office that his budget will bring all federal spending outside Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to 3.75 percent of GDP by 2050. That means defense, infrastructure, education, food safety, basic research, and food stamps — to name just a few — will be less than four percent of GDP in 2050. To get a sense for how unrealistic that is, Congress has never permitted defense spending to fall below three percent of GDP, and Romney has pledged that he’ll never let defense spending fall beneath four percent of GDP. It will be interesting to hear him explain away the difference.
8. It’s not just that Romney now has to defend Ryan’s budget. To some degree, that was always going to be true. What he will now have to defend is everything else Ryan has proposed. Ryan was, for instance, the key House backer of Social Security privatization. His bill, The Social Security Personal Savings Guarantee and Prosperity Act of 2005, was so aggressive that it was rejected by the Bush administration. Now it’s Romney’s bill to defend. In Florida.
9. Joe Biden has a lot of debate prep ahead of him. I’ve interviewed Ryan three times. Twice on health care (here and here), and once on economics (here). He’s very quick on his feet, and he’s got a lot of experience explaining his plans to skeptical audiences. He’s also a likable and, while I don’t know him very well personally, decent-seeming guy. He’s repeatedly won reelection in a moderate district. Democrats underestimate his political skills at their peril.
10. Everyone always says they want an election focused on the issues. For better or worse, we’ve got one.
Ezra Klein has his typically smart comments here. The "10 points" are so dead on, here they are:
- - - -
1. Both Democrats and conservatives are going to get the exact debate they wanted. I’m not so sure about Republicans.
2. This is an admission of fear from the Romney campaign. You don’t make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals favor your candidate. You make a risky pick like Paul Ryan if you think the fundamentals don’t favor your candidate. And, right now, the numbers don’t look good for Romney: Obama leads in the Real Clear Politics average of polls by more than four percentage points — his largest lead since April.
3. Related point: Two of the top contenders in the Romney campaign’s veepstakes were Ohio’s Rob Portman and Florida’s Marco Rubio. Given that there’s fairly good evidence that vice presidential candidates are worth at least a point or two in their home states, the Romney campaign’s decision to pick Ryan is evidence that they feel they need to change the national dynamic, not just pick off a battleground state.
4. Romney’s original intention was to make the 2012 election a referendum on President Obama’s management of the economy. Ryan makes it a choice between two competing plans for deficit reduction. This election increasingly resembles the Obama campaign’s strategy rather than the Romney campaign’s strategy.
5. It’s worth recalling how Ryan became a semi-household name. It wasn’t a Republican strategy to put him forward. As Ryan Lizza recounts in his New Yorker profile of Ryan, it was a Democratic strategy to put Ryan forward. Ryan, he writes, “was caught between the demands of the Republican leaders, who wanted nothing to do with his Roadmap, and his own belief that the Party had to offer a sweeping alternative vision to Obama’s. Ryan soon had an unlikely ally, in Obama himself.” While Republicans were trying to keep Ryan quiet, the Obama administration was trying to make him famous. They saw his plans as the clearest distillation of the GOP’s governing philosophy — and they thought it would drive voters towards the Democrats. We’ll know in November whether that was a genius strategy or an epic miscalculation.
6. Consider the case for Romney until today: He’s a relatively moderate businessman running because his experience in the private-sector gives him crucial insight into how to manage the economy. Now consider Ryan: He’s worked in politics his entire life, beginning as an aide to Sen. Bob Kasten, then working for Sen. Sam Brownback and as a speechwriter to Rep. Jack Kemp. He’s known as a relatively ideological politician who has put forward a detailed policy plan to remake the federal government. It’s a rather different message about what’s important. And how does Romney say the problem with Barack Obama is that he’s “never spent a day in the private sector” and then put Ryan a heartbeat away from the presidency?
7. Ryan upends Romney’s whole strategy. Until now, Romney’s play has been very simple: Don’t get specific. In picking Ryan, he has yoked himself to each and every one of Ryan’s specifics. And some of those specifics are quite…surprising. For instance: Ryan has told the Congressional Budget Office that his budget will bring all federal spending outside Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to 3.75 percent of GDP by 2050. That means defense, infrastructure, education, food safety, basic research, and food stamps — to name just a few — will be less than four percent of GDP in 2050. To get a sense for how unrealistic that is, Congress has never permitted defense spending to fall below three percent of GDP, and Romney has pledged that he’ll never let defense spending fall beneath four percent of GDP. It will be interesting to hear him explain away the difference.
8. It’s not just that Romney now has to defend Ryan’s budget. To some degree, that was always going to be true. What he will now have to defend is everything else Ryan has proposed. Ryan was, for instance, the key House backer of Social Security privatization. His bill, The Social Security Personal Savings Guarantee and Prosperity Act of 2005, was so aggressive that it was rejected by the Bush administration. Now it’s Romney’s bill to defend. In Florida.
9. Joe Biden has a lot of debate prep ahead of him. I’ve interviewed Ryan three times. Twice on health care (here and here), and once on economics (here). He’s very quick on his feet, and he’s got a lot of experience explaining his plans to skeptical audiences. He’s also a likable and, while I don’t know him very well personally, decent-seeming guy. He’s repeatedly won reelection in a moderate district. Democrats underestimate his political skills at their peril.
10. Everyone always says they want an election focused on the issues. For better or worse, we’ve got one.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Good point. I was hoping to see his votes on the economy and budget but ontheissues only goes back so far on him. Some interesting tidbits on his votes there:
Voted YES on terminating the Home Affordable mortgage Program. (Mar 2011)
Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. (Mar 2009)
Voted NO on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Jan 2009)
Voted NO on monitoring TARP funds to ensure more mortgage relief. (Jan 2009)
Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
Voted NO on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on defining "energy emergency" on federal gas prices. (Jun 2008)
Voted NO on revitalizing severely distressed public housing. (Jan 2008)
Voted NO on regulating the subprime mortgage industry. (Nov 2007)
Voted YES on restricting bankruptcy rules. (Jan 2004)
Good point. I was hoping to see his votes on the economy and budget but ontheissues only goes back so far on him. Some interesting tidbits on his votes there:
Voted YES on terminating the Home Affordable mortgage Program. (Mar 2011)
Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. (Mar 2009)
Voted NO on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Jan 2009)
Voted NO on monitoring TARP funds to ensure more mortgage relief. (Jan 2009)
Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
Voted NO on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on defining "energy emergency" on federal gas prices. (Jun 2008)
Voted NO on revitalizing severely distressed public housing. (Jan 2008)
Voted NO on regulating the subprime mortgage industry. (Nov 2007)
Voted YES on restricting bankruptcy rules. (Jan 2004)
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
The Boomers have to get a walk...if he takes Medicare away from old people Tea Partiers will abandon him (keep your Government out of my Medicare!) and in every national campaign he is a part of Florida will be a pipedream.
I wonder how they convinced Ryan to take the nod (when guys like Rubio were saying no weeks ago) seeing as he and Romney couldnt be more different.
The Boomers have to get a walk...if he takes Medicare away from old people Tea Partiers will abandon him (keep your Government out of my Medicare!) and in every national campaign he is a part of Florida will be a pipedream.
I wonder how they convinced Ryan to take the nod (when guys like Rubio were saying no weeks ago) seeing as he and Romney couldnt be more different.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
He has a long ways to go to catch all of Obama's screw ups. Btw, when Obama announced Biden as his vp choice, he actually announced him as the next President of the United States.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/08/obama-misspea-1/
He has a long ways to go to catch all of Obama's screw ups. Btw, when Obama announced Biden as his vp choice, he actually announced him as the next President of the United States.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/08/obama-misspea-1/
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
See JFK and LBJ. Heck even McCain and Palin.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
RMoney picks a guy from a state famous for trampling on workers' rights, a mass-murder of "dem brown peeplez," and drunkenness. This lightweight has a 13% rating from the ACLU and no foreign policy experience. He gets reelected by a bunch of hicks every two years and his signature policy initiative is to kill senior citizens...typical RepubliKKKan if you ask me.
I can't wait for the reelection party.
RMoney picks a guy from a state famous for trampling on workers' rights, a mass-murder of "dem brown peeplez," and drunkenness. This lightweight has a 13% rating from the ACLU and no foreign policy experience. He gets reelected by a bunch of hicks every two years and his signature policy initiative is to kill senior citizens...typical RepubliKKKan if you ask me.
I can't wait for the reelection party.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
The leader is good. The leader is great. ..........
The leader is good. The leader is great. ..........
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
I like somebody with a 13% rating from the ACLU.
Gee, tell us how you really feel. Was The Internationale playing on your iPod as you were posting?RMoney picks a guy from a state famous for trampling on workers' rights, a mass-murder of "dem brown peeplez," and drunkenness. This lightweight has a 13% rating from the ACLU and no foreign policy experience. He gets reelected by a bunch of hicks every two years and his signature policy initiative is to kill senior citizens...typical RepubliKKKan if you ask me.
I can't wait for the reelection party.
I like somebody with a 13% rating from the ACLU.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Neat. Thanks for sharing. I guess I never cared to think about that before.
Neat. Thanks for sharing. I guess I never cared to think about that before.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
You totally defeated the purpose of me putting him on ignore months ago. Go to the box for two minutes and feel shame.
You totally defeated the purpose of me putting him on ignore months ago. Go to the box for two minutes and feel shame.
ericredaxe
Veteran
Pssst.... Don't get drawn into a web of TimP-ian logic.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Did he make the announcement in "Austrian?" In all "57 states?" Were there any "corpsemen" around in the event he took ill? Just another tradition of our political system unlike "countries like Europe."
Nobody votes for Vice President. But in the event they do, I like the matchup between Ryan and Aunt Blabby (wonder whose speeches she'll be plagiarizing this time around).
I will say, the chorale is unusually good voice today.
Did he make the announcement in "Austrian?" In all "57 states?" Were there any "corpsemen" around in the event he took ill? Just another tradition of our political system unlike "countries like Europe."
Nobody votes for Vice President. But in the event they do, I like the matchup between Ryan and Aunt Blabby (wonder whose speeches she'll be plagiarizing this time around).
I will say, the chorale is unusually good voice today.
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Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
The one good reason to vote Romney is to **** off the true believers like TimP and Rover who add so much hate to our politics. Otherwise be sensible and vote Obama in spite of his more liberal supporters, or stay home.
RMoney picks a guy from a state famous for trampling on workers' rights, a mass-murder of "dem brown peeplez," and drunkenness. This lightweight has a 13% rating from the ACLU and no foreign policy experience. He gets reelected by a bunch of hicks every two years and his signature policy initiative is to kill senior citizens...typical RepubliKKKan if you ask me.
I can't wait for the reelection party.
The one good reason to vote Romney is to **** off the true believers like TimP and Rover who add so much hate to our politics. Otherwise be sensible and vote Obama in spite of his more liberal supporters, or stay home.
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