Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

A couple of quick points reII teams in the ECACE
1 they are DII classified schools because they provide Scholarships to Basketball(M&W).NO other athletes receive athletic money,including ice hockey.
2 there are, currently, moratoriums in DI and DIII re:new members.My understanding is that even if they wanted to make a divisional move , there is no place to go.
3 If they were to move down to DIII,primarily for hockey,they would have to find a league(s) for 14 other Varsity sports.not an easy task.
When I played, there was a DI and a DII for hockey.The NCAA caused the problem, let the NCAA step up and fix it.
For the present, until the moratoriums are lifted, if the schools play by DIII rules,as they are currently doing, let the games count.
when the moratoriums are lifted, then it is either move up,move down or move out.

It's not that anybody here disagrees with you - what you say is absolute truth - but in reality there is very little chance of this happening. A one-sport exception for 6 school sounds trivial when put to a vote before the entire DIII membership, which is what it would require. So trivial, in fact, that the non-hockey schools (who outnumber hockey schools more than 6:1) will in all likelihood reject it as a "meaningless idea". In fact, I would imagine most of the "nay" votes would be justified with a statement somewhere along the lines of "DII teams have their own division - they should compete against their own", which I think we all know would only show the absolute ignorance by most schools about the state of NCAA Hockey.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

It's not that anybody here disagrees with you - what you say is absolute truth - but in reality there is very little chance of this happening. A one-sport exception for 6 school sounds trivial when put to a vote before the entire DIII membership, which is what it would require. So trivial, in fact, that the non-hockey schools (who outnumber hockey schools more than 6:1) will in all likelihood reject it as a "meaningless idea". In fact, I would imagine most of the "nay" votes would be justified with a statement somewhere along the lines of "DII teams have their own division - they should compete against their own", which I think we all know would only show the absolute ignorance by most schools about the state of NCAA Hockey.

I know that it's way too logical, but I would think that it would be reasonable to pass some sort of all inclusive DII/DIII legislation like this "if a sport lacks sufficient teams for a DII national championship, teams competing at the DII level may opt to play at the DIII level provided that they comply with all DIII regulations governing that sport. Such teams will be regarded as full DIII members in that sport and will be eligible for the DIII national championship.

Simple, concise, logical and fair. As far as I know, the only sport it applies to is hockey, but it sounds less like special interest legislation when it is phrased that way. Chances of approval 0% or less

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I totally agree with you that the chances of any meaningful legislation being passed by the NCAA has almost 0%chance of passing.
At the risk of being viewed as Don Quixote,I am not sure the schools should throw in the towel and drop down to club hockey, which is the only true solution to their immediate problems.
To compound matters,of the six schools effected, three/four schools would absolutely drop hockey.
St.A's,St.Mike's will try to hang on but......
The NE 10,a basketball conference, could care less about this issue,so it is up to the schools to fight on by themselves.
One final issue the Saints have the ONLY women's DII hockey programs in the country.So to remain in a DII status, they might have to play each other a minimum of 12-14 times to have a meaningful schedule

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

... Chances of approval 0% or less

This appears to be a paradox, a 0% chance of approval would mean it could NOT happen, 'less than zero', IMO, creates a double negative, making a positive, implying that it could happen.

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

exactly(wishful thinking),but not probable.

 

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I totally agree with you that the chances of any meaningful legislation being passed by the NCAA has almost 0%chance of passing.
At the risk of being viewed as Don Quixote,I am not sure the schools should throw in the towel and drop down to club hockey, which is the only true solution to their immediate problems.
To compound matters,of the six schools effected, three/four schools would absolutely drop hockey.
St.A's,St.Mike's will try to hang on but......
The NE 10,a basketball conference, could care less about this issue,so it is up to the schools to fight on by themselves.
One final issue the Saints have the ONLY women's DII hockey programs in the country.So to remain in a DII status, they might have to play each other a minimum of 12-14 times to have a meaningful schedule

Uh, St. Mikes has a women's team. And both Saints are eligible for the NCAA Women's National Collegiate Championship in ice hockey (check out the RPI/PWR for NCAA D-I) -- if they played more games vs D-I teams.

As to your contention that 3 or 4 NE 10 schools would drop hockey - what is your basis? The 4 NE 10 schools are on an island right now and have a scheduling agreement with the NE for the balance of their games and it worked for last season. With 6 schools and a scheduling agreement with the MASCAC / NE for 1 or 2 games / school vs the NE 10, they get a meaningful schedule.

If USM wants to make the NCAA tournament, they jump to the MASCAC. Sorry, they're not getting the AQ from the East.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Uh, St. Mikes has a women's team. And both Saints are eligible for the NCAA Women's National Collegiate Championship in ice hockey (check out the RPI/PWR for NCAA D-I) -- if they played more games vs D-I teams.

He said "the saints" as in collectively St. M's and St. A's - neither team goes by the Saints (they are Knights and Hawks). He's saying if they got booted by the ECAC East, they'd have to play each other 13 - 14 times to get a schedule.

So far, the Women's edition of the ECAC E is more open to non-DIII programs. They also have Holy Cross, and the ECAC makes provision for post season play for those three plus DI independent Sacred Heart.

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If USM wants to make the NCAA tournament, they jump to the MASCAC. Sorry, they're not getting the AQ from the East.

NEVER, that's a pretty bold statement...

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Uh, St. Mikes has a women's team. And both Saints are eligible for the NCAA Women's National Collegiate Championship in ice hockey (check out the RPI/PWR for NCAA D-I) -- if they played more games vs D-I teams.

As to your contention that 3 or 4 NE 10 schools would drop hockey - what is your basis? The 4 NE 10 schools are on an island right now and have a scheduling agreement with the NE for the balance of their games and it worked for last season. With 6 schools and a scheduling agreement with the MASCAC / NE for 1 or 2 games / school vs the NE 10, they get a meaningful schedule.

If USM wants to make the NCAA tournament, they jump to the MASCAC.
Sorry, they're not getting the AQ from the East.[/QUO\te
What scheduling agreement are you refering to?You are assuming that there will be 6 NE10 teams, which is just the point, there may not be 6 NE10 teams.
Given the cost of a hockey program and the time and effort necessary to put together a hockey schedule in this enviornment,it has been mentioned by a couple of AD's,why not drop the program and direct the resources to other programs.also ,if the games do not count, why would MASCAC,ECACNE,SUNY etc. want to play a team where the games do not count,any more than ECACE or NESCAC?
As to the womens issue that I raised,please forget that I mentioned it.Once again, how difficult do you make a situation for hockey before you are forced to rethink the decision to have a Varsity NCAA team.
Take a look at the St.Mike's record and then tell me that they should be scheduling DI teams.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If USM wants to make the NCAA tournament, they jump to the MASCAC. Sorry, they're not getting the AQ from the East.

For many schools, it's not about making the NCAA tournament, it is about giving their teams the best level of competition possible in the context of a college education. If it were all about making the NCAA tournament, the DII programs would have all folded when the NCAA did away with the DII national championship.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

. .
If USM wants to make the NCAA tournament, they jump to the MASCAC. Sorry, they're not getting the AQ from the East.

If memory serves me right, Norwich failed to gain the AQ in 2 of the last 4 years so it's hard to see why USM would be automatically disqualified from the AQ when teams like UMass-Boston and Babson have managed to snare it in the not-too-distant past!!

 

[NUProf]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If memory serves me right, Norwich failed to gain the AQ in 2 of the last 4 years so it's hard to see why USM would be automatically disqualified from the AQ when teams like UMass-Boston and Babson have managed to snare it in the not-too-distant past!!

In fact, in 2009 - UMB made it to the ECAC East Finals and lost in OT to Babson. IF UMB can do that ...

 

[nefan]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Is there anyway we get enough teams to leave the ECAC-NE and become doormats in the ECAC-E or MASCAC so that the ECAC-NE finally loses the AQ that it clearly doesn't deserve?

Doormats in the East or MASCAC??? Are you serious!! Curry/Wentworth/Nichols would all win or at least be in the top 3 of the MASCAC every year!! Regarding the East, Norwich is king but all three of those (ECACNE) teams would do well in the East as well. ECACNE is a better league then the MASCAC and they play a tougher Non-conference schedule. They deserve the AQ as much as any other league!!

 

[hockeyfan69]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Doormats in the East or MASCAC??? Are you serious!! Curry/Wentworth/Nichols would all win or at least be in the top 3 of the MASCAC every year!! Regarding the East, Norwich is king but all three of those (ECACNE) teams would do well in the East as well. ECACNE is a better league then the MASCAC and they play a tougher Non-conference schedule. They deserve the AQ as much as any other league!!

Talk to me when their league champ actually wins an NCAA tourney game, then maybe I would consider them deserving of an AQ. As it is now, they're basically taking up a slot of a team from the ECAC W, SUNYAC, ECAC E, NESCAC, or the western conferences that has a legitimate shot at winning that first round game and advancing, effectively creating a bye for whoever plays them.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Talk to me when their league champ actually wins an NCAA tourney game, then maybe I would consider them deserving of an AQ. As it is now, they're basically taking up a slot of a team from the ECAC W, SUNYAC, ECAC E, NESCAC, or the western conferences that has a legitimate shot at winning that first round game and advancing, effectively creating a bye for whoever plays them.

Ask, and you shall receive (and I apologize to Geneseo fans for this topic having been brought up):
UMass-Dartmouth vs. SUNY Geneseo - 3/8/06

Recap of the game

It wasn't even close. And it was ECAC-NE champion vs. SUNYAC Champion

And they followed it up by only losing 3-1 to Middlebury, the 2-time defending (and eventual) National Champions.

Granted, UM-Dartmouth isn't in the Northeast anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that an ECAC-northeast champion HAS gone on to win an NCAA Tournament game.

 

[jemica]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

5/24-26 - Athletic Administrators Meetings @ Hamilton
5/26 - Presidents Executive Committee Meeting @ hamilton

When will they release information about the proposals and decisions of the meetings?

 

[nefan]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Ask, and you shall receive (and I apologize to Geneseo fans for this topic having been brought up):
UMass-Dartmouth vs. SUNY Geneseo - 3/8/06

Recap of the game

It wasn't even close. And it was ECAC-NE champion vs. SUNYAC Champion

And they followed it up by only losing 3-1 to Middlebury, the 2-time defending (and eventual) National Champions.

Granted, UM-Dartmouth isn't in the Northeast anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that an ECAC-northeast champion HAS gone on to win an NCAA Tournament game.

Thanks Burgh!! Not only that, Curry lost to your Plattsburgh team in 04 late in OT in a great game 5-4. And this year they were 2-1 with Elmira with like 3 minutes to go!! The Northeast is as deserving as anyone else!!

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

It was Gen-Easy-O. (Thank a certain Laker for the horrible, but funny mispronounciation of Genny.) Talk to me when you beat Oswego or Platty. I know Wentworth took Oz to the end in 04, but we did beat them by 8 goals TWICE before the tourney game.

 

[hawk]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Thanks Burgh!! Not only that, Curry lost to your Plattsburgh team in 04 late in OT in a great game 5-4. And this year they were 2-1 with Elmira with like 3 minutes to go!! The Northeast is as deserving as anyone else!!

Just took a look at Wentworth and Curry's schedule for last year and by my count Wentworth played about 5 games against the better competition in the East whereas Curry played 11. The point being teams like Plattsburgh, Oswego, Norwich, and Elmira play most of there games against top flight competition. Just my opinon but most of the MASCAC and Northeast teams don't put the resources into D3 hockey like the East, Sunyac, and ECAC West. The exception seems to be Curry and Wentworth who be invited to join the ECAC East any day now.

 

[nefan]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Just took a look at Wentworth and Curry's schedule for last year and by my count Wentworth played about 5 games against the better competition in the East whereas Curry played 11. The point being teams like Plattsburgh, Oswego, Norwich, and Elmira play most of there games against top flight competition. Just my opinon but most of the MASCAC and Northeast teams don't put the resources into D3 hockey like the East, Sunyac, and ECAC West. The exception seems to be Curry and Wentworth who be invited to join the ECAC East any day now.

They don't want to go to the EAST. Why go play St. Mikes and St. A's?? Two games that DO NOT COUNT. Every league has teams that are at the bottom. All the teams you mentioned play weak teams. Really, Curry beat Utica, Manhattanville from the West and Geneseo in the SUNYAC and WIT beat Hobart twice at Hobart!! Curry and WIT got the best of both worlds now!! Win the northeast and get the AQ, but if they don't they still have a chance at an at-large because they have 11 NC games that they can hand pick vs. the best!! Look at Curry next year: Neuman, Elmira, Oswego, Utica, Plattsburgh, Babson, Tufts, Manhattanville, Hobart, and Trinity!! Not too bad!!