Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

[Gurtholfin]

I disagree. If he would have just said "hockey fans like their local/state hockey" then maybe he'd almost have a point. Aren't there something like 4 hockey colleges in Boston within a couple miles of each other? How much crossover is there for fans? Would Fan A go see a game of Schools B and C? *shrug* maybe. How many of them out there would go to a game between Bemidji State and Northern Michigan during a sort of worthless tournament on Christmas break?

Lolwot? You couldn't tell I was just trolling?

And Slappy? C'mon...

 

[The Rube]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

Lolwot? You couldn't tell I was just trolling?

And Slappy? C'mon...

Stupid Sarcasm Meter Batteries. Not buying generic next time.

 

[Gurtholfin]

The Derp is strong with the OP.

But not with you who has managed to pick a fight yet once again with everyone around you?

Never change Dubbie... never change.


Where is the OP anyway? Maybe having a chuckle...

 

[Gurtholfin]

Stupid Sarcasm Meter Batteries. Not buying generic next time.

Never in my most anti-Gopher (coz I don't actually dislike Minnesota) moment would I seriously say that Minnesotans or even Gopher fans don't like hockey.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

Pretty sure a pond hockey game could draw a crowd up there...

 

[Slap Shot]

Lolwot? You couldn't tell I was just trolling?

And Slappy? C'mon...

You know I keed.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

You don't think he was taking a shot, or you know he wasn't taking a shot?

I've seen him post elsewhere and I'm not as convinced. And his subsequent posts in this thread reinforce that in my mind.

And who said he needs to defend himself? I just offered my opinion on his thoughts. And when did I say it was pointless to offer my opinion? Any other words you want to put in my mouth?

You say that people on these boards don't have to "defend themselves", so why should I defend myself to you?

You must not have a clue about my posting history. I specifically said this has nothing to do with Minnesota or the Mariucci tournament. It's all similar tournaments and it isn't even just in hockey. I don't take shots against other schools or other teams as a routine part of my posting, unless that team happens to be Notre Dame. I even clarified that position IN THIS THREAD. I'm just wondering why it seems no one wants to watch ANY team anymore other than their favorite one and noted anecdotally that it didn't always seem to be this way. The Gophers were just an example since AS I NOTED IN THE OP, this came to mind seeing the opening page on USCHO.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

You must not have a clue about my posting history. I specifically said this has nothing to do with Minnesota or the Mariucci tournament. It's all similar tournaments and it isn't even just in hockey. I don't take shots against other schools or other teams as a routine part of my posting, unless that team happens to be Notre Dame. I even clarified that position IN THIS THREAD. I'm just wondering why it seems no one wants to watch ANY team anymore other than their favorite one and noted anecdotally that it didn't always seem to be this way. The Gophers were just an example since AS I NOTED IN THE OP, this came to mind seeing the opening page on USCHO.

Fair enough. My apologies then. Perhaps I am mistaken in whom I was thinking of. To be honest, what bothered me wasn't your original post, but the subsequent post where you said Minnesotans "aren't hockey fans". I'm not too big to admit I may have misinterpreted your intentions.

I think your premise that Minnesotans (don't want to speak for others elsewhere) only want to watch "Minnesota Hockey" because no one showed up to watch two East Coast teams play on the same day that there were plenty of high school games, the Wild played, and the Gophers played that night is mistaken (trying to phrase that nicely).

I know plenty of Minnesotans that travel to Tech, UND, Wisconsin, etc.. to watch college hockey games not involving the Gophers. I've done all 3 in my lifetime. I've even attended a UNH game while in Manchester for business. I'd prefer to watch hockey I am familiar with though, and there are plenty of options here every weekend.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

Slap Shot - I'll also admit you were right in this instance.

I'm sorry.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

Fair enough. My apologies then. Perhaps I am mistaken in whom I was thinking of. To be honest, what bothered me wasn't your original post, but the subsequent post where you said Minnesotans "aren't hockey fans". I'm not too big to admit I may have misinterpreted your intentions.

I think your premise that Minnesotans (don't want to speak for others elsewhere) only want to watch "Minnesota Hockey" because no one showed up to watch two East Coast teams play on the same day that there were plenty of high school games, the Wild played, and the Gophers played that night is mistaken (trying to phrase that nicely).

I know plenty of Minnesotans that travel to Tech, UND, Wisconsin, etc.. to watch college hockey games not involving the Gophers. I've done all 3 in my lifetime. I've even attended a UNH game while in Manchester for business. I'd prefer to watch hockey I am familiar with though, and there are plenty of options here every weekend.

Fair enough back at you too.

Obviously a lot of people on this forum are the kinds who would go to games not involving their teams (we're the weird ones probably). I'd almost be willing to bet someone who posts here was in the crowd at Mariucci for the UML/'Mack game.

Part of my frustration is that I am one who does go to the games not involving my team and I hate the atmosphere you have to suffer through with the tiny crowds. Western Michigan destroyed two teams at the Shillelagh tournament this year and the place was a joke. There were perhaps a couple dozen of the regular Notre Dame fans at either game and maybe a couple hundred Western fans. The UMD/Minnesota game at the Ice Breaker was an entertaining game with UMD playing a great third period to give Minnesota a tough fight and again, a few dozen people bothered to show up. The Friday game I could almost understand since Notre Dame had two separate admission times and there was no way I expected many locals to show up fully six hours before the ND game was to start, but the other 3 days for the two tourneys it really bugged me.

I also get that committing to two games makes for a long day, makes for an expensive arena meal or two as an option and as I noted, there may be other more important issues for people other than the game their team is playing. But I am correct in noting it wasn't always like this. I've been to Great Lakes tourneys and CCHA championships where this was not the case. Some years ago the WCHA Final Five also seemed to have people showing up for games whether or not their team was on the ice. During the 1982 Great Lakes Invitational consolation game, at least half of the 22,000 who saw the Michigan State/Michigan Tech final showed up for the ND/Michigan game. And all the people who came for the first stayed for the second. I still recall people having to stand in the aisles because the place was so full. I've also attended NCAA conference basketball tournaments and NCAA basketball tourney games where people were there for more games than the one their team played.

But the world has changed and live sports are not the same draw as they were even 5 years ago. Not even close.

 

[wolverineTrumpet]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

Agreed that the world has changed. We have countless options for entertainment these days. Even for college hockey, I can get a lot of games on tv.

For me with the GLI, my family was in from out of town so the first night we only attended the Michigan game. The second day I watched some of the first game on tv, got to the rink in time to watch the 3rd period. This is unusual for me, as I normally go to all the GLI games if I can. But with family that I rarely see, it took a priority (but not over my team's games).

However, this lack of interest in other teams is not entirely new. For how many years has it been fairly easy to target a fan of a losing Frozen Four team to buy their championship game ticket?

Clearly not every fan will is willing to take a trip to Bemidji to watch two teams they have no connection to to see a game. Though, some of the people on this board have done that.

I think the main factors in if someone will stay for both games are:
other entertainment options
how close they live (can they be home and spend the rest of the day doing other things, did they make this into a vacation and are there other things in the area they'd rather see vs. was the vacation specifically for sports)
How much of a diehard are they? Have they heard of the other teams? Do they know where these teams rank, what implication it may have to their team's PWR?
Do they have friends willing to attend both games with them, or even a friend at each game?
Cost, is it a single ticket? How much will food/beverage cost to stay in the arena? Are you paying a babysitter for each hour you're out?

Also, does the lack of interest create more lack of interest? The main thing I love about college hockey is the atmosphere. Is it worth attending a live game where the crowd is sparse and quiet, you haven't heard of any of the players on either team and you might not even know geographically where one is from?

 

[Split-N]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

There indeed once was a time when people would routinely take in both games of a tournament doubleheader. Cases in point: The Beanpot Tournament, where the seats always stayed full for both games, and NCAAs, when they were held in Boston, and seats also tended to be full for both games. But times have changed and people holding tickets to a scheduled doubleheader tend to skip the game "their" team is not involved in. There are a lot of reasons for this, including 1) the fact that there are now more sports events on the cable channels than ever before; 2) More people than ever before have ultra-wide screen UHD TVs both at home and practically every bar; 3) Colleges like to hold alumni "gatherings" that overlap with the "other" game; 4) people tend to be much more centered on their own private universes to the exclusion of all else, including games not involving "their" team; 5) There are just a lot more things competing for our time and $$$ these days.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Fair enough back at you too.

Obviously a lot of people on this forum are the kinds who would go to games not involving their teams (we're the weird ones probably). I'd almost be willing to bet someone who posts here was in the crowd at Mariucci for the UML/'Mack game.

Part of my frustration is that I am one who does go to the games not involving my team and I hate the atmosphere you have to suffer through with the tiny crowds. Western Michigan destroyed two teams at the Shillelagh tournament this year and the place was a joke. There were perhaps a couple dozen of the regular Notre Dame fans at either game and maybe a couple hundred Western fans. The UMD/Minnesota game at the Ice Breaker was an entertaining game with UMD playing a great third period to give Minnesota a tough fight and again, a few dozen people bothered to show up. The Friday game I could almost understand since Notre Dame had two separate admission times and there was no way I expected many locals to show up fully six hours before the ND game was to start, but the other 3 days for the two tourneys it really bugged me.

I also get that committing to two games makes for a long day, makes for an expensive arena meal or two as an option and as I noted, there may be other more important issues for people other than the game their team is playing. But I am correct in noting it wasn't always like this. I've been to Great Lakes tourneys and CCHA championships where this was not the case. Some years ago the WCHA Final Five also seemed to have people showing up for games whether or not their team was on the ice. During the 1982 Great Lakes Invitational consolation game, at least half of the 22,000 who saw the Michigan State/Michigan Tech final showed up for the ND/Michigan game. And all the people who came for the first stayed for the second. I still recall people having to stand in the aisles because the place was so full. I've also attended NCAA conference basketball tournaments and NCAA basketball tourney games where people were there for more games than the one their team played.

But the world has changed and live sports are not the same draw as they were even 5 years ago. Not even close.

Well said. Not sure what solutions are out there, but I can understand why the lack of atmosphere would be a real letdown for oppossing fans that are good enough to travel.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the world changing. Viewing options (TV, online, etc...) have made it too easy to watch sports from home (in increasingly good formats). I think more and more people are choosing to do this than to travel to the games in person.

I'm a Gopher fan living in Milwaukee, and I still try and make it to at least 2-3 Gopher games, a few Wild games, and the MNHS State Tourney every year. That travel has put a dent in my travel budget to see other games. Sad, because I used to love to see new venues.

I was going to try and make it to the Ice Breaker this year, but had a wedding I had to attend out of town. Still upset I didn't get to see Compton, but it is on my short list for the near future. Pretty manageable drive for me.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

However, this lack of interest in other teams is not entirely new. For how many years has it been fairly easy to target a fan of a losing Frozen Four team to buy their championship game ticket?

Not entirely new but I've seen a big change in the last few years. Case in point are the only two FF I have attended in person, 2008 and 2011. In 2008 the place was mostly full for both games. Not all the UM and ND fans were there for the BC/Sioux game and not all of those fans stayed for the second game. But a good portion were there for both, including virtually all of the Sioux fans who stuck around and cheered for Notre Dame (the "ND" connection?, I don't know why, they just did). But in 2011 most of the Notre Dame and UMD fans left before the second game started. In just three years I noticed a huge difference. I think in 2008 it helped that you had three teams there with some of the biggest followings in the sport as well as their fans almost counting on being there since the programs were all solid NCAA teams year in and out, whereas In 2011 with ND and UMD you just had two in the Sioux and UM.

Also, does the lack of interest create more lack of interest? The main thing I love about college hockey is the atmosphere. Is it worth attending a live game where the crowd is sparse and quiet, you haven't heard of any of the players on either team and you might not even know geographically where one is from?

For me this us a huge issue. One of the things I like (and I suspect many here in addition to you like as well) about college sports is the atmosphere. The students, the bands, and -- at least for most teams of a niche sport like hockey -- less of the cynicism that accompanies a lot of sports. But the last few tournament games I have been to have been a complete turnoff with the stale crowds and the vast emptiness of the arenas. The NCAA regional in Toledo in 2013 was awful. The Joe for the final ever CCHA championship was not much better either night. I can't imagine how bad it was in Van Andel in 2013 when I am told the turnstyle count for the West Regional final was UNDER 1000 (boxscore attendance was under 2000). Jeff Jackson stuck his foot firmly in his mouth with his comments after ND slept through the game against St Cloud but his overall point was correct.

I don't know what the upside to a lot of these in-season tourneys is. For a huge sport like basketball I get it, even if the stadiums are either tiny or mostly empty. It's TV money. What was the upside to the games in Florida recently? No TV, just a couple thousand (if that) either night. The Ice Breaker didn't just lack atmosphere at the Compton this year. It was bad at KC when it was there recently and it has been bad at other places. Perhaps the sport needs a huge re-think about these things.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I don't know what the upside to a lot of these in-season tourneys is. For a huge sport like basketball I get it, even if the stadiums are either tiny or mostly empty. It's TV money. What was the upside to the games in Florida recently? No TV, just a couple thousand (if that) either night. The Ice Breaker didn't just lack atmosphere at the Compton this year. It was bad at KC when it was there recently and it has been bad at other places. Perhaps the sport needs a huge re-think about these things.

Really great question and some really good points here.

I've been wanting to see MN end the Mariucci Classic for some time. The only positive that comes from it is getting to see some teams we don't usually see on the schedule come thru. They can do that without the Tourney format, but it becomes more complicated with scheduling because the UMN has a mandate on the # of home games the Gophers have to play each season (hockey is a revenue sport at MN). One-for-one's aren't really an option a lot of the time.

Anyways, long story short, I wouldn't mind seeing the Gophers finding another way to get teams into Mariucci without having it be a holiday tourney.

North Star College Cup is fairly new, but hoping to see that build to the point where the atmosphere is great for all games. Will be hard to replicate the atmosphere of the Bean Pot or the old WCHA Final Five, but the results last season for the inaguaral tourney left me hopeful that it will build into a nice tourney.

Definitely agree with you that some of these tourneys seem a bit pointless, though I am sure there are some scheduling considerations we're overlooking.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

A couple of other things to add to the reasons for abysmal attendance I laid out in a previous post: People tend to do a lot of family-related travel during the holidays, starting with over the river and through the woods to grandma's for Thanksgiving, and continuing on for various reasons right through New Year's weekend. Travel for a holiday tournament probably isn't going to make the cut. Also, many people are tapped out financially after shelling out to Santa's elves, making year-end charitable contributions, and (last but not least) paying 4th Quarter Federal and State estimated taxes. With those cheery thoughts, the costs of tickets, travel, and lodging for a holiday tournament are also not going to make the cut.

 

[Jon]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

Is anyone else almost sad that this turned into a reasonable discussion of how stupid in season tournaments are (aside from the GLI and the Beanpot) when it could have turned into a delightful flame war involving the Gophers?
I really need to get more sleep.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Is anyone else almost sad that this turned into a reasonable discussion of how stupid in season tournaments are (aside from the GLI and the Beanpot) when it could have turned into a delightful flame war involving the Gophers?

I tried...

 

[Slap Shot]

Slap Shot - I'll also admit you were right in this instance.

I'm sorry.

No worries.

Gurt, you tried? I was right!

 

[Jaws]

Re: Do you like hockey, or do you just like "your" team?

My friends and I were considering taking in a game or two during the North Star cup until further research showed it to be taking place the opening week of Winter Carnival and also butting up against the Crashed Ice thing at the Cathedral. Also didn't like the 2 games 1 session format. I think they should dump the Mariucci classic and move the cup tourney up a week or two..

A couple of other things to add to the reasons for abysmal attendance I laid out in a previous post: People tend to do a lot of family-related travel during the holidays, starting with over the river and through the woods to grandma's for Thanksgiving, and continuing on for various reasons right through New Year's weekend. Travel for a holiday tournament probably isn't going to make the cut. Also, many people are tapped out financially after shelling out to Santa's elves, making year-end charitable contributions, and (last but not least) paying 4th Quarter Federal and State estimated taxes. With those cheery thoughts, the costs of tickets, travel, and lodging for a holiday tournament are also not going to make the cut.