USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
- Thread starter jericho
- Start date
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
He's not even right in theory. Ever ride the subway? Every time someone stood too close to you and then bumped into you when the train moved that's a sexual assault charge according to Kep. Look, I'd love it if the "no concept of personal space" crowd got lugged by the cops at the next stop, but to think that's right in theory, practice, or fantasyland is absurd.
The vox article is tough on Reade in that not only is her story changing, but the story of the people who can allegedly back up her claims is also changing, and that suggests a coordinated effort. I don't trust anybody at this point, so I either need more evidence or a pattern of similar behavior by Biden. The dude's been in DC for 50 years. I don't believe he just did this one off with one woman.
He's not even right in theory. Ever ride the subway? Every time someone stood too close to you and then bumped into you when the train moved that's a sexual assault charge according to Kep. Look, I'd love it if the "no concept of personal space" crowd got lugged by the cops at the next stop, but to think that's right in theory, practice, or fantasyland is absurd.
The vox article is tough on Reade in that not only is her story changing, but the story of the people who can allegedly back up her claims is also changing, and that suggests a coordinated effort. I don't trust anybody at this point, so I either need more evidence or a pattern of similar behavior by Biden. The dude's been in DC for 50 years. I don't believe he just did this one off with one woman.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
That doesn't exist and conveniently cannot be sought because any details necessary to try to prove or disprove it she can no longer remember. Hell, at one point she said it was in her Senate complaint that cannot be found, then when Biden said to release her complaint, she said "oh it wouldn't be in there anyway."
Biden was probably the most heavily vetted VP candidate ever since Obama knew he couldn't afford a scandal and, unlike the current White House resident, was competant. A 25-year-old sexual assault allegation would've come up 12 years ago.
That doesn't exist and conveniently cannot be sought because any details necessary to try to prove or disprove it she can no longer remember. Hell, at one point she said it was in her Senate complaint that cannot be found, then when Biden said to release her complaint, she said "oh it wouldn't be in there anyway."
Biden was probably the most heavily vetted VP candidate ever since Obama knew he couldn't afford a scandal and, unlike the current White House resident, was competant. A 25-year-old sexual assault allegation would've come up 12 years ago.
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
lest we forget, this is the best that dumpy can come up with even though he's bragged about assaulting contestants of the crap he puts on.
Yea, it sucks, but the R's who are condemning Biden for this are the worst hypocrites of all time.
This should have come out in 2008, 2012, and before the primaries if this was a real problem. But it's finally come out when Biden is the last one standing. Shocking.
lest we forget, this is the best that dumpy can come up with even though he's bragged about assaulting contestants of the crap he puts on.
Yea, it sucks, but the R's who are condemning Biden for this are the worst hypocrites of all time.
This should have come out in 2008, 2012, and before the primaries if this was a real problem. But it's finally come out when Biden is the last one standing. Shocking.
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
It would not surprise me if they're working on this! They have one more live show this weekend.
It would not surprise me if they're working on this! They have one more live show this weekend.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
That and Hunter Biden is of zero interest to anyone except Ron Johnson (R-WI).
That and Hunter Biden is of zero interest to anyone except Ron Johnson (R-WI).
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
And why didn't it come up 12 years ago? Biden had run for his Senate seat twice, and was the VP nominee since this happened, and we didn't hear a peep about it.
And why didn't it come up 12 years ago? Biden had run for his Senate seat twice, and was the VP nominee since this happened, and we didn't hear a peep about it.
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
I don't think this is necessarily true.
Traditionally, assault was the threat that you were going to commit an immediate harmful or offensive act on a person, and battery was the actual commitment of the harmful or offensive act. I think most states just group them together and call them assault, although I can't state that for certain, or give you a reason why.
But there are two keys. First, there is an element of intent. Bumping into someone in the subway probably annoys that person, and they may even find it offensive, but you're not guilty of assault. Second, it has to be harmful or offensive. Sticking your fingers up her vag qualifies. Rubbing her shoulders probably doesn't. Personally, I think to be guilty of assault your contact has to either be violent (a punch or a slap or the like) or it has to be to intimate parts (boobs, azz, hoohaw).
It's very unlikely Biden's conduct, as apparently originally described, rises to the level of assault. If he stuck his fingers in her, it almost certainly does.
Sexual harassment is a different matter altogether. It's really a creature of employment law. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a crime. It means that you commit certain acts that are actionable by one of your co-employees. If I go up to a woman in a bar and make a series of lewd or suggestive statements, I'm guilty of being a boor, but probably not guilty of any crime or of "sexual harassment," unless it continues to a point where she becomes afraid for her own safety. If I do that at work, I might have just committed sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment might be something like quid pro quo, demanding that an employee sleep with you in exchange for keeping his or her job. It can also consist of conduct that is pervasive enough that a reasonable employee should not be expected to tolerate it. Telling an off-color joke, or laughing about the size of a woman's breasts probably isn't going to be enough. Doing it all the time might be.
I haven't followed the story enough to even know if Reade was an employee of Biden's during the alleged activity. If she was, then my questions would be, a) is there some sort of quid pro quo claim Reade makes, that Biden was pressuring her to sleep with him in exchange for some workplace perk, or b) how pervasive was Biden's conduct. A one time pat on the azz or suggestive comment is probably not going to get you to workplace sexual harassment. It's certainly unacceptable conduct, but conduct more worthy of "stop doing that."
I don't think this is necessarily true.
Traditionally, assault was the threat that you were going to commit an immediate harmful or offensive act on a person, and battery was the actual commitment of the harmful or offensive act. I think most states just group them together and call them assault, although I can't state that for certain, or give you a reason why.
But there are two keys. First, there is an element of intent. Bumping into someone in the subway probably annoys that person, and they may even find it offensive, but you're not guilty of assault. Second, it has to be harmful or offensive. Sticking your fingers up her vag qualifies. Rubbing her shoulders probably doesn't. Personally, I think to be guilty of assault your contact has to either be violent (a punch or a slap or the like) or it has to be to intimate parts (boobs, azz, hoohaw).
It's very unlikely Biden's conduct, as apparently originally described, rises to the level of assault. If he stuck his fingers in her, it almost certainly does.
Sexual harassment is a different matter altogether. It's really a creature of employment law. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a crime. It means that you commit certain acts that are actionable by one of your co-employees. If I go up to a woman in a bar and make a series of lewd or suggestive statements, I'm guilty of being a boor, but probably not guilty of any crime or of "sexual harassment," unless it continues to a point where she becomes afraid for her own safety. If I do that at work, I might have just committed sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment might be something like quid pro quo, demanding that an employee sleep with you in exchange for keeping his or her job. It can also consist of conduct that is pervasive enough that a reasonable employee should not be expected to tolerate it. Telling an off-color joke, or laughing about the size of a woman's breasts probably isn't going to be enough. Doing it all the time might be.
I haven't followed the story enough to even know if Reade was an employee of Biden's during the alleged activity. If she was, then my questions would be, a) is there some sort of quid pro quo claim Reade makes, that Biden was pressuring her to sleep with him in exchange for some workplace perk, or b) how pervasive was Biden's conduct. A one time pat on the azz or suggestive comment is probably not going to get you to workplace sexual harassment. It's certainly unacceptable conduct, but conduct more worthy of "stop doing that."
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
The evidence of him being a touchy-feely dude has been right there, front and center for decades. That does not, however, make him a rapist.
The evidence of him being a touchy-feely dude has been right there, front and center for decades. That does not, however, make him a rapist.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
Dump and the Rs know that. This isn't about shifting votes from Biden to Dump, this is about convincing lefties (especially suburban and college-aged women) to sit at home rather than vote for Biden. It's a vote suppression tactic. They know Dump voters don't care about sexual assaults, since many of them have committed one at some point in their history (or wished they could've gotten away with it).
Dump and the Rs know that. This isn't about shifting votes from Biden to Dump, this is about convincing lefties (especially suburban and college-aged women) to sit at home rather than vote for Biden. It's a vote suppression tactic. They know Dump voters don't care about sexual assaults, since many of them have committed one at some point in their history (or wished they could've gotten away with it).
Last edited:
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
I look forward to seeing if conservatives give Biden the same benefit of doubt as they wanted everyone to give Beer boy Kavanaugh
I look forward to seeing if conservatives give Biden the same benefit of doubt as they wanted everyone to give Beer boy Kavanaugh
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
The first question is is he handsy.
The second question is what does that mean.
The third question is what do we do about it.
My answers are:
1. Yes, obviously. Well documented.
2. It means he personally and less so his generation of men had a Mad Men-esque idea that their attentions were "no big deal" and "what's she complaining about? it's a compliment!"
3. We should have a conversation about how this makes women, especially in the workplace, feel small, used, and nervous or just annoyed, and we have to stop it. And that Biden should say he gets this and apologizes and won't do it anymore. And then forward to the election and kill Nazis.
Recognizing that times have changed doesn't mean the offender has to be burned at the stake. This is like Northam's black face. It's wrong, even (perhaps especially!) if he didn't think it was a big deal. The no big deal-ness of it is itself a huge problem. Acknowledge it and take it seriously. Apologize. Change. Grow. But don't let the bad actors cynically use it to divide and destroy us.
The first question is is he handsy.
The second question is what does that mean.
The third question is what do we do about it.
My answers are:
1. Yes, obviously. Well documented.
2. It means he personally and less so his generation of men had a Mad Men-esque idea that their attentions were "no big deal" and "what's she complaining about? it's a compliment!"
3. We should have a conversation about how this makes women, especially in the workplace, feel small, used, and nervous or just annoyed, and we have to stop it. And that Biden should say he gets this and apologizes and won't do it anymore. And then forward to the election and kill Nazis.
Recognizing that times have changed doesn't mean the offender has to be burned at the stake. This is like Northam's black face. It's wrong, even (perhaps especially!) if he didn't think it was a big deal. The no big deal-ness of it is itself a huge problem. Acknowledge it and take it seriously. Apologize. Change. Grow. But don't let the bad actors cynically use it to divide and destroy us.
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
He's already done that.
He's already done that.
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
These discussions are good but generally fail to distinguish between the common law tort definitions of both assault and battery and the criminal elements (of assault, mainly), which vary from state to state and which must be specifically spelled out in the statute.
These discussions are good but generally fail to distinguish between the common law tort definitions of both assault and battery and the criminal elements (of assault, mainly), which vary from state to state and which must be specifically spelled out in the statute.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
Yeah, I believe he did that after Reade said that was all she wanted originally.
I decided to broach this subject with my gf last night (some of her opinions make the Times Up crowd look Paternal
) and she doesn't believe Reade at all. In fact, when I told her the second version of the story (quoted from the complaint so not me changing it to bias her opinion) she shook her head and said nope not a chance. The way the story changed doesn't work. Changing the story itself isnt the problem, because that is common. Its how she changed the story, its when she changed the story, it is the fact that she is obviously doing this for Press and a few other things. The fact that the Obama Campaign, at least 4 different media outlets and other liberal leaning media outlets couldnt find anything is ****ing. The fact that she didnt speak up when Joe was nominated for Veep is kind of unbelievable. The fact that lawyers associated with Time Out wouldnt take her case is the final straw. She believes Joe is handsy, but her old boss (and mentor) was handsy and while it made her uncomfortable he wasnt doing it sexually, he was doing it because that is who he was. That doesnt make it right, but she wouldnt destroy his career because of it. (and she considers him a friend )
Then my gf went on to compare Tara Reade to Christine Blassey Ford and that really hit it home. Ford acts like a true victim. When she heard Kavanaugh was up for the SC she didnt go on the evening news proclaiming what happened, she wrote a letter to her Senator Diane Feinstein who was part of the committee deciding on the nomination. She stayed anonymous until the media started to really go deep diving into the investigation. Her story was believable and watching her testify people believed her telling the story. Tara Reade just doesnt come off that way, she seems like someone who has an agenda and is ready to tell anyone that will put her on TV about it. She seems more like the Franken accuser than the Kavanaugh accuser.
Now again that was my gf saying all of that. My gf not only is super Womens Rights/Victims Rights but she also has no real love for Joe Biden and would rather he wasnt the nominee.
Yeah, I believe he did that after Reade said that was all she wanted originally.
I decided to broach this subject with my gf last night (some of her opinions make the Times Up crowd look Paternal
) and she doesn't believe Reade at all. In fact, when I told her the second version of the story (quoted from the complaint so not me changing it to bias her opinion) she shook her head and said nope not a chance. The way the story changed doesn't work. Changing the story itself isnt the problem, because that is common. Its how she changed the story, its when she changed the story, it is the fact that she is obviously doing this for Press and a few other things. The fact that the Obama Campaign, at least 4 different media outlets and other liberal leaning media outlets couldnt find anything is ****ing. The fact that she didnt speak up when Joe was nominated for Veep is kind of unbelievable. The fact that lawyers associated with Time Out wouldnt take her case is the final straw. She believes Joe is handsy, but her old boss (and mentor) was handsy and while it made her uncomfortable he wasnt doing it sexually, he was doing it because that is who he was. That doesnt make it right, but she wouldnt destroy his career because of it. (and she considers him a friend )Then my gf went on to compare Tara Reade to Christine Blassey Ford and that really hit it home. Ford acts like a true victim. When she heard Kavanaugh was up for the SC she didnt go on the evening news proclaiming what happened, she wrote a letter to her Senator Diane Feinstein who was part of the committee deciding on the nomination. She stayed anonymous until the media started to really go deep diving into the investigation. Her story was believable and watching her testify people believed her telling the story. Tara Reade just doesnt come off that way, she seems like someone who has an agenda and is ready to tell anyone that will put her on TV about it. She seems more like the Franken accuser than the Kavanaugh accuser.
Now again that was my gf saying all of that. My gf not only is super Womens Rights/Victims Rights but she also has no real love for Joe Biden and would rather he wasnt the nominee.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
I just can't see Biden being the kind of guy who pins a woman against the wall while jamming his fingers up into her. Nothing about him gives off the vibe that he could do that.
While everything about Trump makes you believe he's definitely that kind of guy.
I just can't see Biden being the kind of guy who pins a woman against the wall while jamming his fingers up into her. Nothing about him gives off the vibe that he could do that.
While everything about Trump makes you believe he's definitely that kind of guy.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
If it was Dump how would she notice?
If it was Dump how would she notice?
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
The cheeto dust on her panties?
The cheeto dust on her panties?
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Democratic Challengers: Starting this thread to Own The Libs!
This. Creepy and grew up in an era where back rubs, butt pats (see Bush Sr.) and the like were done in public and largely shrugged off, sure. A sexual predator? They'll usually try that in private because they know it's wrong.
This. Creepy and grew up in an era where back rubs, butt pats (see Bush Sr.) and the like were done in public and largely shrugged off, sure. A sexual predator? They'll usually try that in private because they know it's wrong.
Trump said he was that guy.