Thanks for an actual response. Yes, he would certainly get my vote over Bernie Sanders. And again, I can't imagine there are too many democratic politicians on board with Bernie's plan.
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Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
- Thread starter Kepler
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Thanks for an actual response. Yes, he would certainly get my vote over Bernie Sanders. And again, I can't imagine there are too many democratic politicians on board with Bernie's plan.
Guys, this is not the way to consolidate support. Not everyone sees the glory of M4A right from the outset. I for one am perfectly willing to support Sanders once Warren drops out but questioning the viability of a M4A system doesn't make you a freakin' Republican.
As an independent who would gladly vote for a Democrat in this election, thank you.
ticapnews
Never graduate.
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
The doctor thinks I might have an ulcer and ordered an Endoscopy in January. The first available appointment was April 6. But please, tell me more scary stories about wait times and how efficient our current system is.
The doctor thinks I might have an ulcer and ordered an Endoscopy in January. The first available appointment was April 6. But please, tell me more scary stories about wait times and how efficient our current system is.
ticapnews
Never graduate.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Guys, this is not the way to consolidate support. Not everyone sees the glory of M4A right from the outset. I for one am perfectly willing to support Sanders once Warren drops out but questioning the viability of a M4A system doesn't make you a freakin' Republican.
The poster started on about how no one here will acknowledge flaws. That’s not correct.
Perhaps the poster could try and learn more about universal care while they scream at others to see its flaws
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
How would M4A change that though? You'd still be dealing with wait times as that's a problem with the availability of care, not in having insurance.
How would M4A change that though? You'd still be dealing with wait times as that's a problem with the availability of care, not in having insurance.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
It's thirds. There's a "radical Center" third who understand M4A is where we will eventually wind up but doesn't want to spook the horses. There's a Left third who believes this is a once per century chance to move America forward, like the New Deal, and we can't blow it. And then there's a third who really doesn't think about positions too deeply, loathes Dump, and will vote for the blue alternative. This is the third the media presents as exemplary of the party but it isn't any more than either of the other two thirds.
It's thirds. There's a "radical Center" third who understand M4A is where we will eventually wind up but doesn't want to spook the horses. There's a Left third who believes this is a once per century chance to move America forward, like the New Deal, and we can't blow it. And then there's a third who really doesn't think about positions too deeply, loathes Dump, and will vote for the blue alternative. This is the third the media presents as exemplary of the party but it isn't any more than either of the other two thirds.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
Are you in a role threatened by M4A? That could subconsciously color your thinking.
I would not expect people who work in medical insurance or insurance administration to have an unbiased view, for example. The guys who worked in the buggy whip industry were likely anti-automobile.
Are you in a role threatened by M4A? That could subconsciously color your thinking.
I would not expect people who work in medical insurance or insurance administration to have an unbiased view, for example. The guys who worked in the buggy whip industry were likely anti-automobile.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
Lol. Have you moved to other countries to work in those systems? I have.
Wait times aren’t solved by single payer. However, people get more basic care in those systems and if you’re treated for things before they become massive issues, you save money and time.
Lol. Have you moved to other countries to work in those systems? I have.
Wait times aren’t solved by single payer. However, people get more basic care in those systems and if you’re treated for things before they become massive issues, you save money and time.
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
Not helping....
Not helping....
What makes you think universal care is where we will end up? Bernie wins, gets it implemented, the nation is united and falls in love with it, Republicans too or they never win another election. Seems like a stretch to conclude that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
Eventually as in 100 years. This is a basic government service, like maintaining an army or ensuring clean water and untainted meat. We will get there, the only question is how many generations we make suffer until we do. It's just like civil rights. Politics is how you manage the transition from legacy ideologies and institutions to more advanced, superior releases. There will always be stakeholders with a vested interest in maintaining obsolete systems despite a net loss in social good. The job of the Left is to manage rollouts against that resistance.
The Left is Change Management. The Right is Rentier Exploitation.
Eventually as in 100 years. This is a basic government service, like maintaining an army or ensuring clean water and untainted meat. We will get there, the only question is how many generations we make suffer until we do. It's just like civil rights. Politics is how you manage the transition from legacy ideologies and institutions to more advanced, superior releases. There will always be stakeholders with a vested interest in maintaining obsolete systems despite a net loss in social good. The job of the Left is to manage rollouts against that resistance.
The Left is Change Management. The Right is Rentier Exploitation.
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Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
JD has a point though. With M4A, its important not to overpromise because the opposition party is 100% butthurt Nazis who will try to exploit any issue to attain power and then will reverse it the first chance they get.
The ACA is currently more popular than its ever been, maybe 55-37 in a recent poll. Think of the long, hard decade long struggle to get to that point. Part of the problem was a succinct but unattainable promise (if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor) that wasn't possible to deliver on.
M4A would not only need a successful implementation but it can't hand out promises such as tica's situation that its not meant to deliver on. Dems also need to be prepared to do a better job selling the benefits post implementation than they did after the ACA got up and running.
JD has a point though. With M4A, its important not to overpromise because the opposition party is 100% butthurt Nazis who will try to exploit any issue to attain power and then will reverse it the first chance they get.
The ACA is currently more popular than its ever been, maybe 55-37 in a recent poll. Think of the long, hard decade long struggle to get to that point. Part of the problem was a succinct but unattainable promise (if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor) that wasn't possible to deliver on.
M4A would not only need a successful implementation but it can't hand out promises such as tica's situation that its not meant to deliver on. Dems also need to be prepared to do a better job selling the benefits post implementation than they did after the ACA got up and running.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
Case in point - the last time I went to the doctor's office, I had a 4pm appointment and dutifully showed up 10 minutes early. I was taken back 20-25 minutes after the appointment time, and not seen by the doctor until quarter to 5.
Case in point - the last time I went to the doctor's office, I had a 4pm appointment and dutifully showed up 10 minutes early. I was taken back 20-25 minutes after the appointment time, and not seen by the doctor until quarter to 5.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
All changes will face sabotage by those with a vested interest in seeing them fail. And of course the particular political opposition we face is spectacular in its disregard for the truth and the public welfare. So sure, we have to be mindful of that.
But you don't just give your lunch money to the playground bully because you know otherwise he'll try to beat you up. You get ten friends to circle him and then say, "try it."
All changes will face sabotage by those with a vested interest in seeing them fail. And of course the particular political opposition we face is spectacular in its disregard for the truth and the public welfare. So sure, we have to be mindful of that.
But you don't just give your lunch money to the playground bully because you know otherwise he'll try to beat you up. You get ten friends to circle him and then say, "try it."
psych
Well-known member
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
Well, when Republicans held all three levers of government, they still failed to get rid of the ACA, which is obviously far from universal healthcare, but much closer than what we had before. One of the many reasons it failed (besides John McCain's 'thumbs down' moment) was that it became popular among the majority of Americans. Once people receive something like basic healthcare from the federal government, it becomes almost impossible to take it away from them. I think if we even got the "Medicare For Those Who Want It" passed through some kind of budget reconciliation bill, assuming Democrats win the WH, retake the Senate (small chance) and choose not to abolish the filibuster, and hold the House, that it would be here to stay on our path to universal healthcare. Obviously, universal healthcare can be, and has been, achieved without making it single-payer or 100% government controlled.
Well, when Republicans held all three levers of government, they still failed to get rid of the ACA, which is obviously far from universal healthcare, but much closer than what we had before. One of the many reasons it failed (besides John McCain's 'thumbs down' moment) was that it became popular among the majority of Americans. Once people receive something like basic healthcare from the federal government, it becomes almost impossible to take it away from them. I think if we even got the "Medicare For Those Who Want It" passed through some kind of budget reconciliation bill, assuming Democrats win the WH, retake the Senate (small chance) and choose not to abolish the filibuster, and hold the House, that it would be here to stay on our path to universal healthcare. Obviously, universal healthcare can be, and has been, achieved without making it single-payer or 100% government controlled.
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.
he knows what M4A will cost, and has a plan to pay for that with a new tax. He doesn't know if his "tax wallstreet" plan will bring in enough for his other high-cost proposals like free college tuition, paid family leave, universal head-start, or whatever else he is proposing
he knows what M4A will cost, and has a plan to pay for that with a new tax. He doesn't know if his "tax wallstreet" plan will bring in enough for his other high-cost proposals like free college tuition, paid family leave, universal head-start, or whatever else he is proposing
ticapnews
Never graduate.
How would M4A change that though? You'd still be dealing with wait times as that's a problem with the availability of care, not in having insurance.
I'm not looking for M4A to solve it. I'm saying we already have wait times in our current system. Trying to scare us with horror stories about wait times under M4A is pointless.
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