Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

[rufus]

It wasn't expected to be this big, and Sanders wasn't expected to win Latinx (he did) or do well with blacks (he did).

The MSM Meme Machine is going to have a problem Monday.

I post this again.

The question, then, is why they would bother to make this obviously facile and unconvincing comparison in the first place. That answer has two parts. One is that none of these people are really much good at their very important jobs. The other is that they are scared, because Sanders’s ongoing run toward the Democratic nomination suggests that a critical mass of voters has noticed as much, and is ignoring them. If there’s any real parallel to be drawn between Trump and Sanders, it’s how their respective rises have revealed the flubby redundancy of their respective parties’ establishments.

 

[rufus]

All I know is if Sanders gets the nom, then your wing of the party had better be right on this decision to go all-in and drag us with you, or else we can permanently kiss any return to American normalcy goodbye.

If Bernie gets elected, what is the worst possible thing he could do to this country? The absolute most damaging?

 

[rufus]

Not just someone else. Just Bernie. I'm not going to discard my values just because that person is not Trump. Trump needs to be gone. I'll be clear on that. But I will not sell my soul, so to speak, to get rid of him. No, I will not vote for him. But I will also not vote for Bernie. Frankly, anyone else in the field? It ranges from "begrudgingly accept" to "open arms," depending on the candidate.

I say again. If Bernie gets elected, what is the worst possible thing he could do to this country? The absolute most damaging?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Next time it snows, make sure you tell the snowplow driver not to plow in front of your place. Get out there and shovel it yourself. And don't drive on those roads. Walk through the woods. And if your house catches fire, grab the garden hose and fight the fire yourself. DO NOT CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT!!! Those are examples of evil Socialism. Using them would be "selling your soul"

It's a matter of shifting the Overton Window definition of "essential services" in America. Police, fire, and roads have been deemed essential by almost everyone. Healthcare is getting there, but the GOP still has a majority of the country entrenched in the belief that Medicare for All will bankrupt the country, force conservative Xtians to pay for abortions and trans surgeries, and lead to death panels.

 

[rufus]

You're correct. I'm not going to sacrifice some extreme values for other extreme values. To put a modern spin on it, I shall not be bullied to give up certain values that I consider dear to me.

College paid for with tax dollars, wealthy paying more taxes, healthcare paid for with tax dollars vs. children in concentration camps, and the end of our democratic republic and the rule of law for authoritarian rule instead.

Yep, extreme values on both sides.

You're a fukkin' idiot.

 

[rufus]

You have a reading comprehension problem. I've said several times that I was interested in moving to Scotland in 2016 but then the UK did the whole "Brexit" thing and it became much less attractive. If Scotland gains independence and they retain the current citizenship requirements, I will be more than happy to relocate to Scotland. Right now it just isn't that great a place to be. Better than here, certainly, but not enough to warrant a move of that magnitude.

But please, keep making the joke. It's as fresh and original as it was all those years ago.

There's always Ireland. Better than Scotland anyway.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Cut to a scene with Rube carrying a Tiki-Torch while he and his fellow marchers chant "You will not replace us!"

This is a ridiculous smear, even rufus has never accused Rube of being part of the alt-Reich.

 

[rufus]

She would have been a million times better than Trump. I would t assume Bernie will fair so much better in the election.

Not to Rube.

 

[rufus]

This is a ridiculous smear, even rufus has never accused Rube of being part of the alt-Reich.

He's probably closer than you think. I believe he has linked to or quoted pieces from people affiliated with that movement.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

There's nothing wrong with what Bernie points out - the country does have a lot of problems and 80% of Americans are getting a raw deal, no thanks to years of Reaganomics and trickle-down fallacies.

Let's say he becomes #46 and gets swept into office with a Senate majority as well. I still don't expect anything he does to be all that radical, because his proposals will get trimmed down by the moderate majorities in Congress, just like Obama's were.

Let's say he becomes #46, but doesn't get the Senate majority (the most likely scenario if he does win) and so he's stuck dealing with Yertle the Turtle. That's at least 2 years of gridlock - blocked bills, blocked judicial nominations, and nothing getting done.

 

[ticapnews]

There's always Ireland. Better than Scotland anyway.

My grandfather was Scottish so obtaining citizenship there is infinitely easier and less expensive than anywhere else.

 

[ticapnews]

This is a ridiculous smear, even rufus has never accused Rube of being part of the alt-Reich.

Not a smear at all. Our esteemed president assures me those are good people. Why would it be a smear to associate him with them?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Let's say he becomes #46 and gets swept into office with a Senate majority as well. I still don't expect anything he does to be all that radical, because his proposals will get trimmed down by the moderate majorities in Congress, just like Obama's were.

Agreed entirely. Sanders will primarily be defined by what he doesn't do. He won't continue the Heists. He won't continue to appoint the hand-picked choices of the 1% class to the courts. It would be a respite from business as usual, and business as usual is destroying the country.

It would also demystify democratic socialism for all but those who are too far gone to save. Many Americans have been trained by decades of psychological terrorism to regard any worker's movement as Stalin and Mao and purges and death camps and breadlines. The experience of Western Europe is completely the opposite of that: democratic socialism is far, far better for the eocnomy as a whole and of course for the micro-economics of families than American plutocracy. An avowed democratic socialist presidency would demonstrate the world doesn't end and the monsters under the bed aren't real. This is why the parasite class will do anything to prevent it from happening. The emperor is about to be shown as being naked.

The fact is socialism is a more efficient and prosperous economic system than capitalism. The US was the one great exemplar of capitalist wealth, but the American economic expansion of the 19th century was built on having free land (manifest destiny) and free labor (slavery, infinite immigration). When we ran out of both of those we went into a tailspin that only socialism (the New Deal) saved us from. And now that we backed out of socialism (Reagan et al) we have returned to the stagnation that is the inevitable result of inequality and plutocracy. Capitalism isn't just wrong because it's immoral. It's also wrong because it doesn't work.

The masses of the American people, despite 100 years of propaganda, basically understand this in their heart of hearts because whenever times are tough they instinctively work together to help the weakest (socialism); they do not stomp on the faces of the immiserated and hold their kids hostage (capitalism).

Let's say he becomes #46, but doesn't get the Senate majority (the most likely scenario if he does win) and so he's stuck dealing with Yertle the Turtle. That's at least 2 years of gridlock - blocked bills, blocked judicial nominations, and nothing getting done.

This is true of any Dem. The only way to "get things done" with a Republican Senate is to have a Republican president, and then the "things" that get done will be malevolent.

 

[psych]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/22/21148907/nevada-primary-results-bernie-sanders-establishment

 

[rufus]

There's nothing wrong with what Bernie points out - the country does have a lot of problems and 80% of Americans are getting a raw deal, no thanks to years of Reaganomics and trickle-down fallacies.

Let's say he becomes #46 and gets swept into office with a Senate majority as well. I still don't expect anything he does to be all that radical, because his proposals will get trimmed down by the moderate majorities in Congress, just like Obama's were.

Let's say he becomes #46, but doesn't get the Senate majority (the most likely scenario if he does win) and so he's stuck dealing with Yertle the Turtle. That's at least 2 years of gridlock - blocked bills, blocked judicial nominations, and nothing getting done.

Which is why all the hand-wringing about 'Bernie's gonna destroy America as we know it' is such BS.

If anything, Bernie will face an uphill battle getting his agenda implemented. As will any of the Democratic candidates should they be elected.

Edit: and as Kepler says, Bernie's greatest accomplishment may not even need for his agenda to be implemented. Just by ending the plutocrats raping of this country will be hugely beneficial to everyone. Except maybe the plutes.

But they'll get to keep their heads, so there is that.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I say again. If Bernie gets elected, what is the worst possible thing he could do to this country? The absolute most damaging?

There’s a few straight white dudes who cheer for the hitler youth team that could tell you

 

[rufus]

There’s a few straight white dudes who cheer for the hitler youth team that could tell you

You sure they're straight?

I'll wager more than a few of them are of the self-loathing persuasion.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

You sure they're straight?

I'll wager more than a few of them are of the self-loathing persuasion.

The SS liked to get up to all sorts of pedo stuff behind closed doors in their Julius Evola drug dens.

Nazis, Christian Fundies, Republicans... it's all the same repressed diddler dudes.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I can’t recall if Rube has ever shared the values that Bernie would apparently violate.

Taxes? I guess this is the one that worries most people, but it’s supposed to be what, 2%? on the middle class that will be offset with a reduction in other expenses like healthcare.

Healthcare? I guess there’s freedom to choose currently, but unless you’re a professional athlete or CEO or someone with a super plan I don’t see how a no deductible/premium single payer system would be a downgrade. If it’s related to bargaining, well, that’s one less chip for the employer to hold over the employee’s head.

The Dems share almost all of the same values on other issues besides the two above (though there is a range on college and renewables investment, etc), so if one is considering Amy or Pete or even Warren, I just don’t understand how a single payer platform that probably ends up turning into a compromise of a public option would be the dealbreaker.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

We live in a Republic. The question anyone should ask when they vote for a President is which person will surround themselves with the best people and have the moral compass to try to do what is right for the American people.

How any concluded in the last election that that was Donald Trump is beyond me. The scariest part of Trump's Presidency for me is how, through Barr and others, far Trump has expanded the power of the executive. Still, that should not give anyone any excuse for being afraid of a Bernie Presidency. Bernie is not going to alter the norms of the American President. In fact it is logical to think he will snap it back to what it was under Obama. Hopefully he can set the ground work for America to move into a new age and not be so fearful of the things FDR accomplished while he was President.