Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

[trixR4kids]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

so I'm voting today. I'm still undecided at this point. My #1 concern is who has the best chance to beat Trump.

I like Warren, but considering she'll be dropping out soon I will be voting for Sanders or Biden. Please convince me your candidate has the best chance of beating Trump. I like many of Bernie's policies, but I think there is a near zero percent chance he would be able to enact them, and I'm a little suspect of how effective he will be at a president (since he'll actually have to do more than rail on the rich). At this point I'm only interested in arguments related to electability.

The chances that Biden generates more enthusiasm and energy (especially among minorities and younger voters who will go door to door) than Bernie is basically zero.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

The chances that Biden generates more enthusiasm and energy (especially among minorities and younger voters who will go door to door) than Bernie is basically zero.

I'm not so sure about that. Biden got some pretty nifty endorsements last night. You can see a Cabinet starting to take shape if he wins. I'm hoping whoever the Democrat winner of the Presidency is they really lean on their Cabinet, and the people they put in charge to institute real change and get everything on track. I want to see a nation led by a group of people with big ideas and a group sense of purpose. Pretty much the polar opposite of what we have now.

And, yes, I think Bernie can do that too.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

The chances that Biden generates more enthusiasm and energy (especially among minorities and younger voters who will go door to door) than Bernie is basically zero.

The only canvassers to visit my home this week were Warren's. Two very nice 20-something ladies and I had a nice polite and mutually complimentary talk about Warren and Sanders and after they left I patted myself on the back for defusing some of the rhetoric about Crazy Bernie Bros and then realized I had been wearing this shirt the whole time:

<img src="https://pics.me.me/lowercase-letters-geeause-i-capitalism-anarchoffeminist-62589784.png" >

 

[Rover]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

I'm not so sure about that. Biden got some pretty nifty endorsements last night. You can see a Cabinet starting to take shape if he wins. I'm hoping whoever the Democrat winner of the Presidency is they really lean on their Cabinet, and the people they put in charge to institute real change and get everything on track. I want to see a nation led by a group of people with big ideas and a group sense of purpose. Pretty much the polar opposite of what we have now.

And, yes, I think Bernie can do that too.

I'll have to dig it up but in maybe the South Carolina contest most of the new voters ended up voting Biden! Now that doesn't necessarily mean young people. More likely its former Republicans who've finally thrown in the towel after realizing their party is run by Nazis.

Couldn't tell you at this point which will vote in greater #'s - young 'uns for Sanders or old educated ex-Goopers for Uncle Joe. So far the evidence is mixed.

 

[Rover]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

The only canvassers to visit my home this week were Warren's. Two very nice 20-something ladies and I had a nice polite and mutually complimentary talk about Warren and Sanders and after they left I patted myself on the back for defusing some of the rhetoric about Crazy Bernie Bros and then realized I had been wearing this shirt the whole time:

<img src="https://pics.me.me/lowercase-letters-geeause-i-capitalism-anarchoffeminist-62589784.png" >

I think the fact that you weren't wearing pants was more disturbing than the decal on your shirt.

 

[psych]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

so I'm voting today. I'm still undecided at this point. My #1 concern is who has the best chance to beat Trump.

I like Warren, but considering she'll be dropping out soon I will be voting for Sanders or Biden. Please convince me your candidate has the best chance of beating Trump. I like many of Bernie's policies, but I think there is a near zero percent chance he would be able to enact them, and I'm a little suspect of how effective he will be at a president (since he'll actually have to do more than rail on the rich). At this point I'm only interested in arguments related to electability.

To quote a famous presidential candidate and U.S. Senator, "Vote your conscience."

In all seriousness, Sanders will achieve around the same domestically as any other Democratic nominee, which will be constrained by which party controls the Congressional branches, and to a lesser extent for actual law-making, the Supreme Court. Where the candidate will shine is his/her foreign policy, which I admit to never knowing enough about. Both Biden and Sanders have that experience, but Biden more so. IMO, if you believe that young people and POC under 35-45 are going to turn out in record numbers for Sanders, powering him to grassroots victories in states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and somewhere like a North Carolina, then vote for Sanders. If you think that suburban women, who voted for "moderate" Republican candidates in the past, but found Trump's disgusting behavior a bridge too far and therefore voted 'D' in 2018, but who may also feel overwhelmed by a Sanders presidency, are the key to retaking the White House, then vote for Biden, as they could help carry a North Carolina, Arizona, or Florida over the finish line for Democrats.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To argue Biden is more capable than Sanders of beating Trump- you need to ignore polling, ignore the concept of enthusiasm, ignore the importance of organizing, ignore the reports of Biden "having lost a step", ignore who's drawing low propensity voters & ignore recent history.</p>— Sam Seder (@SamSeder) <a href="https://twitter.com/SamSeder/status/1234568311167442944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

I think the fact that you weren't wearing pants was more disturbing than the decal on your shirt.

Possibly.

I actually was wearing pajamas without underwear and had to keep a tight hold on the flap to prevent an accident.

It was not one of my better showings.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To argue Biden is more capable than Sanders of beating Trump- you need to ignore polling, ignore the concept of enthusiasm, ignore the importance of organizing, ignore the reports of Biden "having lost a step", ignore who's drawing low propensity voters & ignore recent history.</p>— Sam Seder (@SamSeder) <a href="https://twitter.com/SamSeder/status/1234568311167442944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That about sums it up, though I think "lost a step" is a cheap shot. Biden's always been a gaffe machine so construing it now as sundowning because he's old is unfair. He just can't think on his feet. Ironically that may not be that big a deal in a President, regardless of all the breathless movies showing them making split second decisions.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

I'll have to dig it up but in maybe the South Carolina contest most of the new voters ended up voting Biden! Now that doesn't necessarily mean young people. More likely its former Republicans who've finally thrown in the towel after realizing their party is run by Nazis.

Couldn't tell you at this point which will vote in greater #'s - young 'uns for Sanders or old educated ex-Goopers for Uncle Joe. So far the evidence is mixed.

If we can retain both groups for the Fall then it doesn't matter.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

The only canvassers to visit my home this week were Warren's.

same, although I wasn't home so they left a note on my door. I'm looking forward to the end of the Bloomberg junk mail after today

 

[Rover]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

same, although I wasn't home so they left a note on my door. I'm looking forward to the end of the Bloomberg junk mail after today

Suit yourself, but I'm looking forward to Bloomberg mailing me 100 dollar bills! THAT will get me to change my vote.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

That about sums it up, though I think "lost a step" is a cheap shot. Biden's always been a gaffe machine so construing it now as sundowning because he's old is unfair. He just can't think on his feet. Ironically that may not be that big a deal in a President, regardless of all the breathless movies showing them making split second decisions.

Nah, he used to be quite a bit sharper and witty when it came to people confronting or challenging him.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

I'll have to dig it up but in maybe the South Carolina contest most of the new voters ended up voting Biden! Now that doesn't necessarily mean young people. More likely its former Republicans who've finally thrown in the towel after realizing their party is run by Nazis.

this is the thing that makes me nervous to vote for Bernie: those reformed Republicans could easily decide the election, but they might sit out if their choice is Bernie

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

The worst outcome for the Dems is Bernie wins and then all the young voters and Latinos that came out to support him learn the jaded truth about politics. But they're going to learn that one way or the other anyway.

Shouldn't Obama have already taught that lesson to Millennials old enough to vote for him?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

this is the thing that makes me nervous to vote for Bernie: those reformed Republicans could easily decide the election, but they might sit out if their choice is Bernie

You could say the same thing about disaffected voters who are a risk to sit it out if we pick the Same Old (c.f. 2016).

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Shouldn't Obama have already taught that lesson to Millennials old enough to vote for him?

The Obama experience didn't teach Millennials that politics sucks. It taught them that Republicans suck.

Obama and the Dems didn't betray us. They did what they could against a Nazi onslaught. That's the lesson of the last decade.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Shouldn't Obama have already taught that lesson to Millennials old enough to vote for him?

Anyone who voted for Obama when he first ran is already 30 and jaded. That's the beauty, we keep making idealistic 20 year olds with dreams the world gets to crush.

 

[psych]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Anyone who voted for Obama when he first ran is already 30 and jaded. That's the beauty, we keep making idealistic 20 year olds with dreams the world gets to crush.

Eh, I represent this demographic and I wouldn't call myself jaded in the least. Definitely more informed now, though.

 

[Rover]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Its possible Biden ends up being a transitional president. Consider this:

Biden gets elected with grudging lefty support while bringing along older educated people to put him over the top and capture a 50/50 senate. That means Biden restores our foreign policy to something sane while doing the right thing on judges (for all the complaints about Clinton and Obama from the left, I haven't heard of them being accused of putting conservatives on the bench). Congress then passes priority 1 which is updated voting rights legislation which everyone from AOC to Manchin should be on board with. Then he puts tax brackets at least back to Obama era while modestly expanding the ACA.

With a more favorable judiciary, higher taxes and expanded govt run healthcare including perhaps a public option, the groundwork has been laid for even further progressive legislation under the next Dem President who presumably will be younger than 80 years old. Who knows if Biden even runs for a 2nd term? If not that's the time for the left to pounce and finally seize the reigns. Think back to the great progressive legislation of the 1960's. Dems won the '58 mid terms then the Presidency in '60. They held their own due to Kennedy's popularity in '62 and then had a big victory in '64 with Johnson finishing up what JFK started and then going even further after a succession of electoral victories over the previous 8 years.