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Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

dxmnkd316 said:
I'm not talking about the GOP. I'm talking within the party. If you want to get your policies passed in Washington you had better learn to trade horses.
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So why can't you start toward the left, and then work your way back towards a sort of center/left compromise, instead of always starting at the center and moving ever more rightward?

cause that's done great things over the years.
 
trixR4kids said:
Yeah, when it’s not completely disingenuous.
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Sure doesn't seem like it.
Dx isn't being disingenuous when it appears Bernie has the same issue with the press Trump does.
A paper criticizes him...he says no to them.
That's not good...especially in the current climate.
So what exactly was bad about bringing that up? Other than it was against your idol.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

dxmnkd316 said:
At least senile biden has surrounded (actively or passively) himself by people who know how to work the system. My biggest fear is that Bernie's supporters want to just burn it down.
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He has? Who has he surrounded himself with?
 
His issues with the press (i.e. the Bezos post, one publication) is that they ask stupid disingenuous bad faith questions that serve oligarchs. Trump isn’t necessarily wrong about it either even if he’s doing it for the wrong reasons (right wing grift).
 
trixR4kids said:
His issues with the press (i.e. the Bezos post, one publication) is that they ask stupid disingenuous bad faith questions that serve oligarchs. Trump isn’t necessarily wrong about it either even if he’s doing it for the wrong reasons (right wing grift).
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The press is at fault for Bernie's inability to deal with an article that is not flattering in a professional way?
Hmm...very Trumpian answer.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

rufus said:
So why can't you start toward the left, and then work your way back towards a sort of center/left compromise, instead of always starting at the center and moving ever more rightward?

cause that's done great things over the years.
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You can, I like Warren. I’ll be donning a full body condom and SCBA and voting for her tomorrow.
 
First Time said:
The press is at fault for Bernie's inability to deal with an article that is not flattering in a professional way?
Hmm...very Trumpian answer.
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The press is at fault for acting in bad faith to serve oligarchs. Him treating them with hostility is perfectly warranted. Saving our planet matters more than decorum.
 
trixR4kids said:
The press is at fault for acting in bad faith to serve oligarchs. Him treating them with hostility is perfectly warranted. Saving our planet matters more than decorum.
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Jesus ****ing Christ.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

dxmnkd316 said:
I'm not sure that's true either. I think he's falling into the same fallacies we all do. He's not stepping back and evaluating Bernie as a politician because he's blinded by the fealty to his policy platform.

Bernie's policies are generally pretty good. Bernie as POTUS isn't good. Platform doesn't, or rather shouldn't, give you carte blanche to burn things to the ground like the current administration.

Compromise isn't four-letter word. It's reality.
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I don't think Sanders is a Messiah and I don't think his platform is unassailable (it's far too conservative :) ). He is the best thing on offer with the best chance of winning and he is, through some Act of God, in the best position for the nomination, and that's pretty neat.

As for "burning things to the ground," the political realities in which we all operate would not allow that anyway, and the only thing Sanders is interested in burning is Crony Capitalism and that's already burning, we're just supposed to ignore that because rich people haven't been hurt.

The rhetoric surrounding Sanders is hysteria. It's "where da white women's wallets at?" Much of it in the media is driven by corporate paymasters, but that does not explain why loyal centrist Democrats are so eager to grab on to it. I get that having the political cliches of the last two generations challenged causes dissonance, but (1) we should evaluate those based on their track record in reversing the slide towards fascism, which is not good, and (2) this is a smart and knowledgeable crowd, and they shouldn't be swayed so easily by what is basically 2016 Russian trolling only this time from our own Plutes.

Bernie not gonna steal nationalize the cows in the North Forty. He's just gonna stop the Plutes from stealing your pension.
 
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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

BassAle said:
In your mind, yes — they are off limits. Anyone that dare suggest Bernie made a mistake might as well be advocating for 4+ more years or Trump
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This is nonsense.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Beto is endorsing Biden? What was he promised lol.
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">‘I’m Proud To Endorse Biden And So Are All Of You,’ Announces Pipe-Waving Amy Klobuchar <a href="https://t.co/OxAelOc04J">https://t.co/OxAelOc04J</a> <a href="https://t.co/Rq0qeJk4pU">pic.twitter.com/Rq0qeJk4pU</a></p>— The Onion (@TheOnion) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1234619017832300546?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Kepler said:
I don't think Sanders is a Messiah and I don't think his platform is unassailable (it's far too conservative :) ). He is the best thing on offer with the best chance of winning and he is, through some Act of God, in the best position for the nomination, and that's pretty neat.

As for "burning things to the ground," the political realities in which we all operate would not allow that anyway, and the only thing Sanders is interested in burning is Crony Capitalism and that's already burning, we're just supposed to ignore that because rich people haven't been hurt.

The rhetoric surrounding Sanders is hysteria. It's "where da white women's wallets at?" Much of it in the media is driven by corporate paymasters, but that does not explain why loyal centrist Democrats are so eager to grab on to it. I get that having the political cliches of the last two generations challenged causes dissonance, but (1) we should evaluate those based on their track record in reversing the slide towards fascism, which is not good, and (2) this is a smart and knowledgeable crowd, and they shouldn't be swayed so easily by what is basically 2016 Russian trolling only this time from our own Plutes.
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Again, I suggest we BOTH evaluate these reports. You seem to dismiss them as the <strike>swamp</strike> plutes but somehow don’t give give time to consider that maybe the stories aren’t being written by plutes and sometimes, just maybe they are based in fact and the people reporting them are doing so in good faith.

It’s like this great conspiracy that somehow the rich are pulling individuals’ arms like a marionette driving their everyday actions. Plutes aren’t gods. They can drive broad policy but they aren’t controlling what the establishment investigative media is writing, not if it’s too good of a story. It’s nonsense. Imagine if you or I were in a situation at work and told to quash a bad environmental release or some other sort of situation that requires a moment of deep ethical consideration. Of course we’re going to do the right thing.

You should ask yourself “Why can we have ethics but journalists can’t?”
 
Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Yeah, mainly from that tiny subset of hardline communists who think he's a moderate. :rolleyes:
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Communists are obviously going to criticize Sanders because he's a Socialist. Socialism and Communism are as different from each other as Socialism is from Capitalism.

There are Socialist criticisms of Sanders that have to do with his implementations. The reason we don't see them in the media is because (1) Socialist voices are banned from the MSM since guess who owns it and (2) Sanders is the Leftmost peg in the national political landscape so criticisms would tend to be making the perfect the enemy of the good.
 
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Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

dxmnkd316 said:
Again, I suggest we BOTH evaluate these reports. You seem to dismiss them as the <strike>swamp</strike> plutes but somehow don’t give give time to consider that maybe the stories aren’t being written by plutes and sometimes, just maybe they are based in fact and the people reporting them are doing so in good faith.

It’s like this great conspiracy that somehow the rich are pulling individuals’ arms like a marionette driving their everyday actions. Plutes aren’t gods. They can drive broad policy but they aren’t controlling what the establishment investigative media is writing, not if it’s too good of a story. It’s nonsense. Imagine if you or I were in a situation at work and told to quash a bad environmental release or some other sort of situation that requires a moment of deep ethical consideration. Of course we’re going to do the right thing.

You should ask yourself “Why can we have ethics but journalists can’t?”
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I don't subscribe to the theory that there is a conscious conspiracy among Plutes. I mean, there actually are some who are directly and consciously working to brainwash the public (the Kochs flooding the public libraries with Ayn Rand's books for the last 40 years for example, rich lobbyists literally writing the regulations which are then applied to them, etc), but for the most part it's soft power and indirect influence. You don't want to be "that guy." You don't want to p-ss off your friends, or be thought naive and sophomoric at Rover's infamous Beltway Parties. You don't want to make that impression with corporate just before Performance Review. All the little things that pen people in unconsciously. What Marx called "the superstructure" and Gramsci called "cultural hegemony" or something more erotic in Italian.

It's not the Stonecutters.
 
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