Days Since Last Shooting II

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I'm for stricter background checks, but if you think banning any sort of gun will improve anything, you are mistaken.

Please stop confusing the issue. Nobody is saying outlaw guns. Its protected by the Constitution.

The problem is you guys keep changing the discussion and that stops any real progress towards reducing gun deaths.

 

[Drew S.]

Please stop confusing the issue. Nobody is saying outlaw guns. Its protected by the Constitution.

The problem is you guys keep changing the discussion and that stops any real progress towards reducing gun deaths.

What is your solution?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

The problem is you guys keep changing the discussion and that stops any real progress towards reducing gun deaths.

That has been a deliberate conflation by the NRA to shut down reasonable discussion. It works.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

For anybody with a desire to do this stuff, it's pretty simple.

As long as you have a machine shop and can work with sheet metal, right?

I understand that there are how-to's on the interwebs for almost anything.


Doesn't mean just anybody could pull it off.

I'd have more faith in Brent's underworld connections than the average idiot building his own high capacity magazine.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I hope that you are not that naive. If one wants a gun in this country, they will get one. Banning them is impossible at this stage of the game. Frankly, I'm two/three calls away from getting an untraceable gun.

Hey now, banning is a terrific tool! Look at what good it's done during both Prohibition and the Drug War!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Please stop confusing the issue. Nobody is saying outlaw guns. Its protected by the Constitution.

The problem is you guys keep changing the discussion and that stops any real progress towards reducing gun deaths.

Then what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? Any sort of restriction is unconstitutional.

 

[BassAle]

Australia also happens to be an ISLAND. Makes it a little tougher to import guns.

I'm for stricter background checks, but if you think banning any sort of gun will improve anything, you are mistaken.

Yeah, America is so special, an embarrassingly high rate of gun violence is just something we need to live with.

I think you are the one that is mistaken.

 

[BassAle]

Then what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? Any sort of restriction is unconstitutional.

So I can weaponize anthrax in my basement?(2nd amendment doesn't say guns specifically)

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Your conclusions are wrong. Population is not an indicator of a violent society. And the only ones who believe that immigrants cause the majority of gun deaths are those on the right.

The following article refutes myths:

1. They're coming for your guns - gun owners outman the US military and police by 79:1
2. Lesser gun laws make you safer - high correlation of states with lax gun ownership and gun deaths
3. Good guys stop bad guys - No mass shooting have been stopped by armed civilians in 33 years
4. There are more gun owners - Actually there are less, the current ones are just buy more
5. Don't need more gun laws - In a survey, 40% of inmates say they got their guns through private sellers wo background checks.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check/

Lest we forget that Australia is ALSO a nation of immigrants. With a distinct influence from the UK. Just like us.

There are far more similarities between Australia and the US than not.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Any sort of restriction is unconstitutional.

"The right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited." -Justice Antonin Scalia

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

There are far more similarities between Australia and the US than not.

It also has a substantial population of reactionary numbnuts, like us, yet it got the ban through.

Australia : New Zealand :: United States : Canada

 

[jerphisch]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Australia also happens to be an ISLAND. Makes it a little tougher to import guns.

I'm for stricter background checks, but if you think banning any sort of gun will improve anything, you are mistaken.

Based on what? Even if only 10% of gun owners would follow the new law that would improve things, less guns and less gun owners = less gun violence. The rest would be breaking the law, and over time there would be a steady reduction. You might need to see a doctor, pretty sure your gun hard on has lasted well over 4 hours. Buy a monster truck to overcompensate, they have proven more useful during recent flooding events.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

What is your solution?

Personally I don’t like conceal and carry – it increases the likelihood of deaths and police almost never recommend using concealed weapons.

But as a matter of policy, here’s a handful of options that would help:

1. Limit just who can get guns (if indeed there are mental health issues),
2. Getting rid of loopholes where individual can buy guns below the radar from private sellers,
3. Modify weapons so they can’t be altered into ARs,
4. Putting further restrictions on where you can bring weapons – high level hotels capable of mass deaths,
5. Hiring more police – unfortunately more guns require more law enforecement and therefore, ironically bigger government

The point is - do something - test something. We can see what doing nothing does.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Then what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? Any sort of restriction is unconstitutional.

forgetting that there is a bill of rights to change the constitution when needed

can we stick to original intent like the scalia's of the world do, and roll back to the ball and musket?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Australia also happens to be an ISLAND. Makes it a little tougher to import guns.

Not really. From an importing perspective, the only way you can not float stuff to the US is to bring it through Canada or Mexico, neither of which would be a straight forward way to import guns. So, essentially, the US is just as much an island as Australia is.

But it's far more a cultural thing, that we MUST HAVE GUNS at all costs. Ignoring the little part about the "well regulated militia" words. Which should allow limitations on what any semi-auto can be made and sold as. Should allow the elimination of fully automatic weapons, as it's been demonstrated multiple times that we are not a responsible culture with our weapons as much as we pretend we are.

Anyone that is truly skilled on machine tools can make whatever they want. That can't be prevented. What can be is a drastic reduction in what can be sold. And it also can be a much bigger law to break if you assist anyone in making a weapon hold more than 5 or so rounds, or making it fully automatic.

What logical reason do you need any weapon that holds more than 5 rounds? What logical reason are there ways to have fully automatic weapons?

Yes, there are some responsible people out there with these weapons. Buy there are enough who are not that make the questionable reason to have them not be good enough.

And the idea that people are some kind of superman and can take people down based on their "skill" is astounding. This morning, I heard some of the police tapes reminding them to lock their cars because panicking people were trying to break into them and get the shotgun. As if they could do something other than kill people on their own- let alone create MORE panic resulting in more injuries. Duh.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Personally I don’t like conceal and carry – it increases the likelihood of deaths and police almost never recommend using concealed weapons...

mookie's brother never carries when off duty.... until now. told mookie last night he is going to carry at all times going forward.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I'd have the gun purchase process include required safety training, statement of need, criminal background check, and psychological evaluation. Hand guns would be more difficult to purchase than hunting rifles.

Mandatory registration, no ammo purchase without matching registration. Limits on ammo purchases (tracked in a database like cold medicine purchases).

Mandatory buyback and destruction of assault rifles.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Then what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? Any sort of restriction is unconstitutional.

So you are one of the people who say we should just get used to people dying because of guns and the 2nd Amendment. Got it.

BTW, the whole text is

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We seem to willingly ignore the whole amendment just for the last part. First, there's the "well regulated Militia" part- which means that while the right to have arms is there, there's a pretty clear path to define what that actually means. For the "security of the State"- why is necessary to have automatic weapons? Why is it necessary to have more than 5 rounds in a weapon at once? When that line was written, you could have a single shot, flint lock, muzzle loading weapon. Maybe get 3-4 shots off a min.

There are limits on your free speech- you can't say "fire" in a crowded room. So it's not unprecedented to put limits on amendments. Limit the number of rounds in a weapon at once, increase the penalties for anyone who assists people making weapons fully automatic, etc. This isn't hard. And it's JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER limit that are on Amendments.

You can have a gun. Fine. What that gun is can be limited.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I'd have more faith in Brent's underworld connections than the average idiot building his own high capacity magazine.

Well, unfortunately, the idiot that would want to build his own magazine is probably the same idiot that actually has the types of skills needed to build his own magazine. He might not be able to spell "magazine" but he could fabricate one.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Mandatory buyback and destruction of assault rifles.

And that weapon can be defined as one that can fire as fast as you pull the trigger AND holds more than X rounds (I'd say more than 5). There's no reason they are needed.