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Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

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Being tough on crime always sounds so good. But how is the 22 year old rancher in Wyoming who you just barred from driving for life going to afford to move, now that he has no realistic way of ever holding a job. And how many friends are going to stick by a drunk driver, which is apparently like being the devil incarnate in your eyes. Your posts sure don't make it sound like you'd be helping him at all. You'd rather lock him up in prison for life.

As for the .09 crack, maybe or maybe not. Not when things like OWI checkpoints exist, let alone the obviously pretextial (though apparently still legal) ways of pulling people over are allowed.

Getting in a car drunk and killing someone is no different that shooting someone with the hated gun.

One brazenly takes an action that results through their own fault into the death of another.

Drive drunk and hurt yourself or property. Huge fine and minimal jail time

Drive drunk and kill someone. Premeditated murder. (You knew what you were doing by drinking)
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

I said they were over in that example. But apparently if you don't kill someone they should just let it slide.

Uh ...

Drunk driving should be viewed much more harshly as an offense.
It's like ... wait for it ... waiving a loaded gun around in a room full of people.

A drunk driver who kills someone should face the death penalty.

If you don't have the proof of drunk driving (BAL test) all you can go after in your example is the vehicular homicide or manslaughter.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Getting in a car drunk and killing someone is no different that shooting someone with the hated gun.

One brazenly takes an action that results through their own fault into the death of another.

Drive drunk and hurt yourself or property. Huge fine and minimal jail time

Drive drunk and kill someone. Premeditated murder. (You knew what you were doing by drinking)

The easiest way to get away with murder in the US is to hit the person with a car and then down a fifth of Jack Daniels.

"I was angry and drunk."
"Oh, you were drunk? Well never mind then ... "
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

The easiest way to get away with murder in the US is to hit the person with a car and then down a fifth of Jack Daniels. --> "I was angry and drunk."

What a load of ****. Vehicular manslaughter carries huge sentences. Sure, it's not 20 to life w/o parole, but it's still fairly common to see 10-20 years. That's getting away with murder if I've ever seen it... :rolleyes:
 
The easiest way to get away with murder in the US is to hit the person with a car and then down a fifth of Jack Daniels.

"I was angry and drunk."
"Oh, you were drunk? Well never mind then ... "

If you actually believe that, you're as dumb as most of my wife's clients.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

What a load of ****. Vehicular manslaughter carries huge sentences. Sure, it's not 20 to life w/o parole, but it's still fairly common to see 10-20 years. That's getting away with murder if I've ever seen it... :rolleyes:

But a jury will mitigate the charge with "but they didn't mean to, they were drunk" because we're far too tolerant of drunk drivers. And then there's Georgia where second degree homicide by vehicle is a misdemeanor. That's getting away with murder.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

If you actually believe that, you're as dumb as most of my wife's clients.

Q: What do you call a lawyer who can't get a client who was drunk out from under vehicular manslaughter (to an A misdemeanor)?
A: Unemployed.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

But a jury will mitigate the charge with "but they didn't mean to, they were drunk" because we're far too tolerant of drunk drivers. And then there's Georgia where second degree homicide by vehicle is a misdemeanor. That's getting away with murder.

Wrong. The only mitigation is that if you are drunk you cant form intent. And I love how you generalize that juries do this, you must be so learned on the subject.

BTW nice move to now switch the conversation AGAIN away from what the real problem. You are better at Dodgeball than Patrick O'Hoolihan. Now it is about drunk driving...what topic will you come up with next to deflect from the real issue cause you dont have any real argument? Your "bans dont work" try failed since no one wants one and now your drunk driving one is proving just as ridiculous. Maybe you can compare it to the stupid Nickname debacle in North Dakota and go for the trifecta!! :D
 
Q: What do you call a lawyer who can't get a client who was drunk out from under vehicular manslaughter (to an A misdemeanor)?
A: Unemployed.

What do you call a poster whose sole legal training comes from watching Law and Order reruns?
Ill-informed.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Switching from what topic?

This was started when peeps thought white guys with guns shot up some ****

Once it was found to be radical Islamic terrorist that horse left the barn
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Getting somewhat back on track -- between mookie's warm fuzzy over the President's speech and my cynical view that it could have been a musical called "Platitudes, Platitudes", what does the jury think?
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Getting somewhat back on track -- between mookie's warm fuzzy over the President's speech and my cynical view that it could have been a musical called "Platitudes, Platitudes", what does the jury think?

I see no reason to get excited on either side. I was happy to hear him tell the bigots to stow it in the wake of all the crazy backwoods Muslim huntin' argle bargle the GOP candidates have been drooling. While it was encouraging that he mentioned gun control, it was depressing that he knows nothing can happen with the current configuration of Congress and SCOTUS. Substantive reform is still a decade away, and then only if the good guys continue to hold the White House, make Court appointments, and eventual reverse the orc majorities in the two chambers.

It was a presidential check-in speech. Dad knows we're an adolescent idiot who's never going to change until we figure it out ourselves, and that maturity is a long road, and he looks a little relieved that it won't be his job to make excuses for us to the other Dads for too much longer. Anybody who has raised a child knows just how he feels -- he's hopeful we'll finally get it, but knows it can't come from outside, it's got to come from actually growing up.

As for whether we are growing up -- well, if all else fails, forty thousand men and women every day, and a majority of them from the Dark Ages. I know new models of are coming out of the Herpa-Derp factory too, but not as many.
 
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Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

10,076 people were killed in 2013.

10,076 people.

Yet, we're not talking about banning cars or alcohol.

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html


Yes, the 10,076 people killed in 2013 were killed by drunk drivers.


That is roughly 20% more "death by drunk" than total firearms homicides in the US for the year 2013.



Just because drunk driving, with its own set of issues, exists means we can't address a totally independent guns issue? Your logic on tying drunk driving to guns is waay off base. Solve both independently as best you can.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

My two cents on the subject of mass shootings, and society's response, if any.

First, we are not going to solve, or even reduce by any meaningful level, the problems of periodic mass shootings utilizing, A) monitoring of people; B) limiting the immigration of people of certain nationalities or religious beliefs; C) passing new gun regulations in the form of complete bans, background checks, permits, mental health checks, limits on the size of clips, banning semi-automatic weapons, etc..., or D) arming everyone to the teeth and encouraging them to carry their guns everywhere they go.

The U.S. glorifies violence at the end of a gun. We always have. Whether it's Annie Oakley's and Wild Bill's Wild West shows, Audie Murphy movies, the Lone Ranger, or more modern versions of the same, it permeates our DNA. TV, books, movies, video games, on and on. This makes the problem extremely complicated. No country in the world has our gun violence problem, but no country in the world has the same culture as ours.

You are not going to get rid of guns in this country. Whether it's the 2nd Amendment, the aforementioned culture, or the fact there are somewhere between 250 and 300 million already floating around, anyone who argues for that solution is simply wasting my time, so I will ignore you. You might as well say let's just blink our eyes and hope they disappear.

Similarly, the "regulatory" suggestions are at best mere band aids applied to a severed limb and at worst nothing more than a vehicle for political grandstanding. They do not solve this problem, or even lessen it. Let me ask two questions. 1) Do you think mass shootings have increased or decreased in the last 50 years? 2) Do you think there are more regulations or fewer regulations relating to the purchase, ownership or possession of guns now, or 50 years ago?

The problem with the "monitoring" solution, or the identifying of foreigners, gun owners, religious extremists, etc..., is the signal to noise ratio is so minuscule it is worthless, especially in light of the cost, both human and financial. We're going to assign cops to follow all 50-100 million people who own guns???

So much of what I hear or read on this subject is, "well we must do something."

Realistically, I'm not sure there is a solution, except long term. I don't have a lot of hope for the Ludovico Technique. The silliness of banning video games, movies or certain tv shows goes nowhere. If I were in charge I might start by making it expensive to own guns, from high charges for handgun permits, hunting licenses and the like, to imposing insurance requirements similar to autos, taxes on gun and ammunition sales similar to gas taxes, and other creative methods of making people, on their own, question their need for a gun. They will never listen to us as to why they don't need one. They have to reach that conclusion on their own.

I like the idea of voluntary buy backs, maybe with higher prices paid for handguns and assault style rifles.

That, coupled with education are the only hope, imho. Everything else is a waste of time and money.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Just because drunk driving, with its own set of issues, exists means we can't address a totally independent guns issue? Your logic on tying drunk driving to guns is waay off base. Solve both independently as best you can.

Don't you attack the larger problem first? I'd say drunk driving is far more prolific.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

You are not going to get rid of guns in this country. .... You might as well say let's just blink our eyes and hope they disappear.

It bore repeating (and it was someone wanting to eliminate guns who isn't naively utopian).
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

My two cents on the subject of mass shootings, and society's response, if any.

First, we are not going to solve, or even reduce by any meaningful level, the problems of periodic mass shootings utilizing, A) monitoring of people; B) limiting the immigration of people of certain nationalities or religious beliefs; C) passing new gun regulations in the form of complete bans, background checks, permits, mental health checks, limits on the size of clips, banning semi-automatic weapons, etc..., or D) arming everyone to the teeth and encouraging them to carry their guns everywhere they go.

The U.S. glorifies violence at the end of a gun. We always have. Whether it's Annie Oakley's and Wild Bill's Wild West shows, Audie Murphy movies, the Lone Ranger, or more modern versions of the same, it permeates our DNA. TV, books, movies, video games, on and on. This makes the problem extremely complicated. No country in the world has our gun violence problem, but no country in the world has the same culture as ours.

You are not going to get rid of guns in this country. Whether it's the 2nd Amendment, the aforementioned culture, or the fact there are somewhere between 250 and 300 million already floating around, anyone who argues for that solution is simply wasting my time, so I will ignore you. You might as well say let's just blink our eyes and hope they disappear.

Similarly, the "regulatory" suggestions are at best mere band aids applied to a severed limb and at worst nothing more than a vehicle for political grandstanding. They do not solve this problem, or even lessen it. Let me ask two questions. 1) Do you think mass shootings have increased or decreased in the last 50 years? 2) Do you think there are more regulations or fewer regulations relating to the purchase, ownership or possession of guns now, or 50 years ago?

The problem with the "monitoring" solution, or the identifying of foreigners, gun owners, religious extremists, etc..., is the signal to noise ratio is so minuscule it is worthless, especially in light of the cost, both human and financial. We're going to assign cops to follow all 50-100 million people who own guns???

So much of what I hear or read on this subject is, "well we must do something."

Realistically, I'm not sure there is a solution, except long term. I don't have a lot of hope for the Ludovico Technique. The silliness of banning video games, movies or certain tv shows goes nowhere. If I were in charge I might start by making it expensive to own guns, from high charges for handgun permits, hunting licenses and the like, to imposing insurance requirements similar to autos, taxes on gun and ammunition sales similar to gas taxes, and other creative methods of making people, on their own, question their need for a gun. They will never listen to us as to why they don't need one. They have to reach that conclusion on their own.

I like the idea of voluntary buy backs, maybe with higher prices paid for handguns and assault style rifles.

That, coupled with education are the only hope, imho. Everything else is a waste of time and money.

Some pretty sane comments there, Hovey.
 
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